Forum Topic

Charlotte's Place-thanks for nothing

I just tried to book a table for two for our 30th Wedding Anniversary. I did say that we did not want to be seated in the basement but was told they could not guarantee this. Couldn't say why.So I didn't book. Been going there years.Won't be going there again.

Terry Freestone ● 4147d41 Comments

Never, ever and excuse for bad service.You have 'voted with your feet' and rightly so.Lisa's in Pitshanger Lane perhaps?

Nigel Brooks ● 4147d

I too like Lisa's - and Maxim in Northfield Avenue.What's the basement like in Charlotte's Place?  Generally acceptable or always to be avoided?  One of the relatively few restaurants in Ealing that I've never been to.

Phil Kay ● 4147d

the basement is not as bad as it sounds - it has a light vent. Given the recent weather, its as good as upstaires! At least CP warned you about the possibility !

Nick Robinson ● 4147d

I must try Lisa's --- only ever been there once about 7 years ago I think.Another tip to avoid currently... Coach & Horses on London Road Isleworth. It's been going downhill fast but gave them another chance this weekend. Shockingly bad service led me to post a review on TripAdvisor

Colin Goodman ● 4147d

You could try the Grove next door; they've just won a Michelin AA rosette.

John Walker ● 4147d

waiting for better clientelle?Don't forget there are opening in one of the retail units in Dickens Yard soon

Ron Gill ● 4147d

I wouldn't say The Grove at Ealing Green is next door - perhaps you meant The Grange on the corner of Warwick Road and Ealing Common?

Gerry Tan ● 4146d

"I wouldn't say The Grove at Ealing Green is next door - perhaps you meant The Grange on the corner of Warwick Road and Ealing Common?"Sorry, yes - I meant the Grange.

John Walker ● 4146d

We haven't dined in The Grange for some time now - what's it like these days John? Similarly, Charlotte's Place - we still rate The Walpole.

Gerry Tan ● 4146d

Dear TerryI believe that our Operations Manager spoke to you yesterday regarding this but I wanted to reply personally as well. As he and our Restaurant Manager explained, the reason that we do not guarantee any guests seating preference in our Ground Floor dining room is due to the fact that, were we to have a booking which included ambulant disabled guests who were unable to negotiate the staircase to the Lower Dining area, then we would need to seat them on the Ground Floor over guests who are able to walk down the stairs.  We will always do our best to accommodate seating requests, however, as I’m sure you can understand, we have this policy in place to ensure that we are as accessible to all of our guests as possible. Kindest regardsCharly SeniorPR & Marketing Manager

Charly Senior ● 4146d

Not a great response "were we to have a booking which included ambulant disabled guests"  but thank you for responding anyway.As a disabled ambulant person myself this comes across simply as an attempt to maximise covers in the event that someone else 'might' call.You did not have such a booking when the OP called, did not explain this at the time of booking and lost his business.Had I phoned to be told that the ground floor was fully booked I would simply have accepted it. Based on my reading of this thread I don't think I shall bother troubling your 'bookings' policy.

Nigel Brooks ● 4146d

I haven't dined in the Grange for some time either, Gerry.I'd like to give it a go soon though as it sounds like the food is top notch.I was last at Charlotte's Place around two years ago for Sunday lunch which was very good. I even got a seat upstairs! ;-)I did have dinner in the basement once and it was a bit gloomy, so I fully understand diners preferring upstairs seats for special occasions.

John Walker ● 4146d

The old 'Queen Vic' is a revelation and the AA Rosette is well-deserved.I don't know where they source their rib-eye steaks but you won't need a knife and, liking a rare steak they cook it to perfection.

Nigel Brooks ● 4146d

Dear CharlyThank you for the response and Craig’s phone call yesterday.  As I told Craig, whomever I spoke to on the phone when I rang your restaurant on Tuesday most certainly did not explain why the booking could not be guaranteed.  I note you did not mention Private Dining which I was told could also have an impact on the availability of space upstairs-although I understand that there are no such events booked for this Sunday.On reflection, I do think it rather insulting that I need to advise you of any impairment on my part in order to ensure my husband and I having a place upstairs for a single special occasion. I have loved your food and you have one of the best wine lists in London but you won’t be seeing us anymore. 

Terry Freestone ● 4146d

As a long standing Charlotte's Place customer the original poster's experience does ring true. The quality of the food hasn't changed but it's been noticeable for the last year or so that booking a table upstairs is a very hit and miss affair depending on who you speak to - you can even book a table and be told that upstairs is fine, then turn up to find your downstairs and someone who booked after you is upstairs.Hopefully things will be a bit more predictable when they open at Dickens Yard but for a neighbourhood restaurant they need to try harder with special requests - even if that means asking people to pay a deposit to guarantee an upstairs booking as it's completely understandable that they can't afford to take upstairs bookings  and thus reduce the space for larger parties only for people to not turn up.

Ed Yelland ● 4146d

There seems to be an English language comprehension issue at work here. Legislation dictates that businesses need to make reasonable accommodations for disabled people.  Such accommodation would include providing a table on the ground floor. Charlottes simply said that they couldn't GUARANTEE a seat on the ground floor because if a disabled person booked a table five minutes before you were due they'd have to provide "your" table on the ground floor to that person - as a reasonable accommodation. This is exactly the same as parents with prams having to give priority to wheelchairs on busses and disabled people getting preferred access to bulkhead seats on flights. The other unmentioned issue is that you don't have to PROVE your disability, so if you're comfortable with it just explain that you need a table on the ground floor due to disability issues. That way all parties are happy - Charlottes have discharged their statutory obligation and you've got the table you want. As an aside I've only been going for over 20 years and they're currently on as good a form in the kitchen as they've been in a while. I prefer upstairs but will sit wherever I can be accommodated as the basement is no longer the dank hellhole it was when Charlotte ruled.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4145d

Andrew, I think the germane point here is that the restaurant did not take the booking on the ;chance; that they may have a booking from an ambulant disabled customer.If they have filled the ground floor and I called as an ambulant disabled customer (which I am) I would neither expect them to move other diners nor make any more than a reasonable provision. If they are full I would simply book elsewhere. You cannot have it both way as they seem to want with this policy.

Nigel Brooks ● 4145d

So do you believe that were the entire ground floor booked as a private function and subsequent to that booking, a mobility impaired person asked for a table on the ground floor, the private function would be moved downstairs?

Terry Freestone ● 4145d

Charlottes did not refuse the booking - they warned they could not GUARANTEE the ground floor. The OP chose not to book. The strong chances are the OP would have got the ground floor. If the entire floor is privately booked moving it to accommodate one party is not a "reasonable accommodation".

Andrew Mcauley ● 4145d

I've been going the Charlotte's for years, and I have always asked to sit upstairs, and always been told they would accommodate this if possible, but couldn't guarantee it. I have never had a problem with that. If they had a table earmarked upstairs for me and then someone else with mobility problems subsequently booked, I would have no problem at all with them taking the table instead. The food is still fantastic there, but watch out for the drinks. I had a rum and coke to start with there recently and it was almost £10, which is pretty steep IMO!

Dave Hawley ● 4145d

Had a meal in the basement once and will never go back - found it really depressing and miserable but know others rate the rest of the place highly.  But I will never return as staring at the wall and the light vent for hours was miserable

Jools Lewis ● 4145d

Thanks Dave I was beginning to doubt my sanity. Your point nails it.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4145d

"The strong chances are the OP would have got the ground floor."Yes, quite possibly. But I did not want to take that chance as it was for our 30th. And again, Andrew, I was not told why. The reply from Charlotte's here says that I was, but I swear I was not. This was only the second time I have ever asked for a ground floor table. (I was given a similar reply-that was 7 or 8 years ago). I've eaten in the basement quite a few times.

Terry Freestone ● 4145d

And I in no way denigrate you for preferring to take your business to another venue where the architecture means they won't have to warn of the slight possibility of having to reseat you.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4145d

Perhaps I'm missing something here.I've never been to Charlotte's Place but I'llassume they have eight or ten tables on the ground floor with maybe the same downstairs.In order to accommodate the possibility of a disabled person or a group containing the same wanting to book a table or tables which will necessarily need to be on the ground floor, all they need ever do is ensure that they don't guarantee a ground floor place to more  than say four or five tables at any one time.There is no reason whatsoever why such a "concession" could not be granted to regular customers who make an occasional special request.The very fact that the marketing representive of Charlotte's Place didn't even have the good grace to acknowledge that Mr Freestone has been visiting his restaurant for years as a regular paying customer, and as such might expect somespecial consideration on those grounds alone, really says it all. But was instead lumped in with the all the rest of the market-speak "guests". Well maybe they're rewritten the  dictionary since the last time I looked, - but "guests" don't normally have to pay for the privilege of being fobbed off.michael adams 

Michael Adams ● 4145d

Yes I'd say you're missing something.. Currently Charlottes can accept bookings for every table on the ground floor with a caveat that if a disabled person needs a table that may override the booking. With your scenario they don't get to accept bookings to allow for the unlikely possibility that a disabled person will make a last minute booking. Why stop at reserving one seat? What happens if that night is an outing for a special interest group of disabled people? Why not just not allow any bookings on the ground floor in case this happens?The only scenario that conforms to legislative requirements is that they guarantee a ground floor table to disabled people requiring it if there are any spare seats at the time of booking. All others are told you're 99.9% likely to get your ground floor table if there's still availability at time of booking but regretfully under anti discriminatory legislation we have to allow for the possibility that a last minute booking by a disabled person might trump your booking. If I was Charlottes I probably wouldn't warn people of the possibility and I'd just deal with it on the night. "Oh we're sorry but a last minute booking for a person who can't negotiate the stairs means that we have to put you downstairs this evening. Sorry about that, can we buy you a drink to apologise". Fwiw I've dined there before this policy was introduced with a disabled person who couldn't negotiate the stairs and we were placed in the basement. It caused excruciating pain for them having to use the bathroom. If dining on the ground floor is so important to you that you'd prefer a disabled person to be turned away then maybe reconsider your priorities or eat at Côte. I am one of charlottes most loyal customers and whilst I normally get my preferred table upstairs occasionally I get the basement. I deal with it. As for the OP I understand why they don't want to risk it on such a milestone occasion. So it makes sense to eat elsewhere. Charlottes can't win on this one. They can either not warn you of the remote possibility and risk causing offence on the night or they can pre warn and possibly alienate. They don't have a crystal ball that tells them how many disabled people will want to eat that night. All they have is a finite amount of covers which they can allocate until there are no more left.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4145d

I simply do not understand why they would not say to a disabled customer' if the ground floor was fully booked, "sorry we are fully booked in our accessible areas".This breaches no legislation as the non-availability of a service is non-discriminatory.Of course, if they were savvy they would inform the mobility impaired customer that they are fully booked but take their number in the eve of a cancellation. Then call the ground floor booking and ask if they would be willing to move to the basement and, if they agree, result: two bookings.Don't pee-off customers on the off chance that a cripple (I can say that, I am one) may want to book, perhaps, maybe, possibly.However service and savvy seem to be in short supply in this case.

Nigel Brooks ● 4145d

Like all internet flame wars I'd suspect we're getting one side here. When you book a seat with say British Airways or Virgin you are told that seats are not guaranteed. They'll try and accommodate you. I find it hard to believe that CP wouldn't have said the same. CP are not obliged to accept bookings with provisos attached. In this case they chose not to and cited reasonable accommodation requirements. The OP didn't like it and voted with their feet. That's fine. It is NOT however bad customer service from CP and to claim otherwise borders on petulant. We aren't privy to both ends of the discussion but I do know that when we had our disabled issues CP were incredibly apologetic and suggested that next time we make them aware of the disability at the time of booking.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4145d

Andrew Mcauley pointed out - "CP are not obliged to accept bookings with provisos attached.[...]It is NOT however bad customer service from CP and to claim otherwise borders on petulant."....Good customer service consists of treating valued customers as individuals, and accepting bookings with provisos attached, is thats what's requiredon occasion Trying to hide behind legislation when this isn't even necessarily applicable, doesn't constitute good service in any way. It just happens to be more convenient.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 4145d

Are all customers equal in your mind?

Andrew Mcauley ● 4145d

Andrew Mcauley asked:"Are all customers equal in your mind?"...Assuming that that question is addressed to me, rather than to the ether...I don't have any customers, but in most businesses the Pareto principle or 80/20 rule can be seen toapply. 80% of your profits will come from 20% of your customers. Your regular customers. With limitedresources at your disposal, keeping your regular customers happy should always take priority over bending over backwards trying to convert the other 80% into becoming regular customers,if this is at the expense of the 20%This is straight forward business common sense.I can't help noticing that you explained previouslythat......" I am one of charlottes most loyal customers and whilst I normally get my preferred table upstairs occasionally I get the basement. I deal with it."...Which to me, suggests one of two thingsEither, on occasion,  all the tables on the ground floor are occupied by disabled diners and theircompanions.  Or, less loyal customers are allowed to retain theirground floor tables, whilst you yourself one of the establishment's most loyal customers are consigned to the basement.michael adams... 

Michael Adams ● 4145d

Yes, if they are not already customers.To cite Reichheld in 'The Loyalty Effect'."A satisfied customer will tell three friends, a dissatisfied customer often more than twenty"

Nigel Brooks ● 4145d

I would hope that Charlotte's employ a "last in first out" approach to allocating upstairs tables to those who have expressed a preference.If someone books who tells them they have someone in their party who cannot manage stairs, they would be given the table of the required size upstairs that was booked most recently, and the person who had booked it would find they were downstairs. They would not have been promised an upstairs table anyway, as a matter of policy, and it's been that way for many years. I still have no issue with that.If someone has booked the whole of the upstairs for a function that would be a different matter, as you obviously can't separate people who are together, in fact Charlotte's have told me in the past that they always put big party functions upstairs, presumably as they are easier to serve there. In that case a newly booking person who had mobility problems would not be able to be accommodated on that occasion. This would be the case in any establishment that had limited facilities for disabled access.Personally my main worry about being down in the basement is what happens if there's a fire! I'm sure that Charlotte's comply with all the necessary fire arrangements that they must legally have to, but I can't see any quick easy way out of the basement, especially if there's a fire raging up above!

Dave Hawley ● 4145d

Well I certainly wouldn't expect anybody who was already at a table to be moved to accomomodate me and I  normally book with about 20 minutes notice so I don't expect to be always seated where I'd prefer.I would concur that regular customers are more important than occasional customers. The adage quoted about dissatisfied customers telling others is only applicable when the complaint can be readily seen to be justifiable. With the rise of socisl media anybody can check the TripAdvisor reviews for Charlotte's Place and contextualise complaints. It's easy to see when someone is moaning because they didn't get the special treatement they considered themselves entitled to, rather than actually having a valid grievance.As I don't work for CP I can't comment on how they actually allocate tables. I know that the reallocation would by necessity not be as straightforward as it might inititially appear to be. For example the last table booked might have been a 2 top and the party requiring the ground floor might be a 6 top. Would it make sense to relocate a 6 top or a 4 and a 2?Once the entire room is booked as a function ALL guests are treated equally - there is no discrimination - noone can have a ground floor booking.I'd like to think that when looking to relocate a booking CP would consider who they wished to disgruntle the least. The person who books once in a blue moon on special occasions or the person who's in every month. They're running a business not a socialist utopia.I did like the idea put forward earlier that CP might charge a premium to guarantee a specific table. This removes the "reasonable accommodation" issue. It would not be reasonable to expect somebody who had paid for a specific seat to be moved to accommodate someone else's needs.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4144d

With absolute respect for the different views expressed on here, I am somewhat baffled by the debate. Appreciating the need for consideration to those who cannot go downstairs, is the basement really that bad for the rest of us? Having dined upstairs and downstairs, I found the atmosphere downstairs on a busy shift to be lively thanks to the conversation and enjoyment of all diners. Our tastes on location of table may be personal however.The service at CP (including booking process) did not appear discriminatory, underhand or to be insincere; in fact my experience on both occasions was that of a small business trying its best to provide great food in a local establishment. It's a small premise...that means maybe you don't get your favourite table every time. The alternative is to travel further, pay more and be subject to booking 3 months in advance on the nose to get a table. Running a restaurant is a very tough business and I'm sure the owners would love to have all tables upstairs.Support for local places delivering a great product such as this will help maintain the business. The opposite and you eventually lose what you have that's good through negativity. That would be a shame for Ealing which doesn't have a fine dining alternative to CP. We all expect value for money, my (personal) opinion is Ealing is better with CP than without.Forum Home

James Putland ● 4137d

JamesI believe the issues here are both consistency and the manner in which the 'booking policy' was communicated.It left the potential customer unhappy and that, for any business, is not good,

Nigel Brooks ● 4136d

i had excellent dinner for 6 there on Saturdayemail to confirm, and phonecall on the day as well.Charlottes Place in Ealing Broadway won't have a basement...

Nick Robinson ● 4134d

That's how it should be done Nick. Let's hope this is the new 'consistent' model.

Nigel Brooks ● 4134d

When will the new branch of Charlotte's open?  Will the Ealing Common place then close?

Gerry Tan ● 4134d

Both will stay open Gerry along with the 'branch' in Chiswick.No idea of the opening date. the fixtures for the new site were still being manufactured last month so probably a few weeks yet.

Nigel Brooks ● 4134d

the new Dickens Yard site will open Mid-Julythe Ealing Common restaurant will get some renovations but they say they will not need to close.

Nick Robinson ● 4134d