Forum Topic

Proposed Uxbridge Road Cycling Measures

I don't travel along this stretch of the Uxbridge Road regularly enough to comment on the proposals which are detailed on the front page with any great authority but the thinking behind them appears sound. It is certainly the case that if you are going to be delayed on this road it will be in the town centres and therefore it doesn't seem to be too unbelievable that the dual carriageways represent spare capacity that can be better used and there is a big win if cycling can be made safer and quicker. It was interesting to learn that 80% of trips along this road are made by bus — presumably this is on a per person basis. What that means is that these changes could go badly wrong if they have an undue impact on bus travel times. The council seem to be saying that the changes will be scrapped if bus travel times are affected 'significantly' but this is not defined. My concern is that the more zealous of the pro-cycling brigade have often tended to quote quite misleading data when it comes to bus travel times when it comes to the recent Streetspace measures. We've seen statistics for whole routes for the whole day and then been told that any delays were minimal. The key data is for travel times within the affected sector of the route during the busiest parts of the day. A five minute delay in rush hour might be evened out over the course of the whole route but that is irrelevant to a bus user who has already got off. On a 20 minute trip that's a 25% increase in travel time which will encourage modal shift. As anyone who has ever used a bus can tell you, relatively short delays can lead to buses becoming very overcrowded very quickly. If the changes make travel slower and less comfortable for 80% of the users of the route then they are going to switch to other modes of transport but not all will take up cycling and many will use cars. In this case you risk the situation entering a vicious cycle — pun not intended — in which more traffic leads to fewer people using the bus. To avoid this the council needs to accurately survey the opinions of bus users and drivers and treat the data honestly not cherry picking to present an argument for a pre-determined course of action.

Gordon Southwell ● 1901d56 Comments

As I understand it, this proposal is for the part of the Uxbridge Road near the hospital. As such, it stands to reason that much of this traffic will be patients on the buses hospital bound. My husband is a driver but always uses the buses since he never knows 1. How long he will be there and 2. What condition he will be in- maybe not able to drive home. Could I suggest  he is probably one of many.

Bettina Margaret Thwaite ● 1901d

At the time of writing the consultation has been suspended:"The council would like to know your views on the proposed measures. Please read the full consultation document carefully, as it details the proposals in full, before completing a short survey to have your say.This consultation has been temporarily suspended and will restart soon. The time period to respond will be extended accordingly."No reason given.

Kenneth Day ● 1901d

It may be because a number of people objected that postcode information was not being collected from people completing the survey which made it vulnerable to manipulation.

Mark Evans ● 1901d

The proposals as currently outlined are ninsensical. There is already a full width 24/7 bus lane for almost the total length of the proposed bike lane.  To implement a 'wand segregated' additional lane dedicated to cyclists would reduce the road space for all other vehicles to a single lane in each direction. One only has to look at the traffic volumes of the A4020 all day every day to realise that putting a quart into a pint pot simply will not work. There will be more idling traffic, pollution levels will increase and for what? I'm sorry but there is already a cycle lane whey is another needed?

N V Brooks ● 1900d

Bus lanes aren't cycling infrastructure Nigel.

Paul James ● 1900d

I drive a Road mobility scooter along the Uxbridge Road @ 8mph (MAX) to the Hospital.I am not allowed in Bus lanes or Cycling lanes so it is going to get even more dangerous for people like me.

Peter Jones ● 1900d

My understanding is that mobility scooters are allowed in cycle lanes unless specifically forbidden. If the current proposals are for the new lanes to by cycles only then you could make a strong case for this to be changed during the consultation.

Mark Evans ● 1900d

& who or which residents exactly are they going to consult?Just people who reside near the hospital.The roads as I understand, are open to any vehicles, even if they are not from Ealing.It’s a dreadful bottleneck there & queues of traffic awful - as you would expect with 3 lanes merging into one.The lights were adjusted to favour the million & 1 buses

Peter Yale ● 1900d

NS Sherlock.Only Buses and cycles can use the 24/7 lanes to the exclusion of other traffic (currently cabs can use them as well but that's easy to change). Have some wands if it makes you feel safer. Capice?

N V Brooks ● 1900d

This ruddy forum software!!!The reply above, to avoid confusion, was directed to Paul James.

N V Brooks ● 1900d

Isn't that the point? There is already a bottleneck so reducing the number of lanes after it won't make much difference.

Mark Evans ● 1900d

Not really as the proposal would simply push the bottleneck further back towards Southall where the A4020 is already one of the most polluted roads in London. Almost a Labour self-destruct button.

N V Brooks ● 1900d

But surely ALL THE CARS will simply drive ON THE PAVEMENT instead. It HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, EVERYWHERE according to our chief witness for the prosecution.Weirdly, I’ve never seen it happen anywhere.

Simon Hayes ● 1900d

The link on the council website does not work.Has anyone got the correct link for the actual consultation?

Raymond Havelock ● 1899d

The link to the survey in the article on the front page works.

Mark Evans ● 1899d

But that's where the bottleneck already is so the flow of traffic has already slowed. It slows in the process of the number of lanes being reduced so doesn't get any slower if the road remains single lanes - that's the theory anyway.

Mark Evans ● 1899d

As I understand it road legal ones are allowed in bus or cycle lanes at present but are also allowed to use pavements -  but max 4mph - half the max speed allowed on the main road.

Philippa Bond ● 1899d

Correct, save that the ones used on the road must be 'Class 3' and apply for a (free) Vehicle Excise Duty registration. They do not have to display number plates although many do and only Class 3 buggies can be used on the carriageway at an 8mph maximum.

N V Brooks ● 1899d

Thanks, Yes the link works and takes to to the consolation document which also downloads.But the link to the consultation document won't open with a requirement for other software to access the link.Does not work on an apple mac at all. Or on a Android phone.Cut and pasted what is on the PDF document below.:The council would like to know your views on the proposed measures. Please read this document carefully and consider the proposals. Have Your Say by completing the online survey at:www.ealing.gov.uk/southall-hanwell The closing date for this consultation is: 24 JULY 2021

Raymond Havelock ● 1899d

You've never seen a motor vehicle being driven or ridden on a pavement?Stop talking such nonsense!

Paul James ● 1898d

No I haven't except for illegally ridden mopeds and scooters, but then I'm not delusional. Get some help!

N V Brooks ● 1898d

Nope, not recklessly along length for sake of it.Oh except security van to fill ATMs.Unlike bicycles & scooters

Peter Yale ● 1898d

What hallucinogenic drugs do you have access to, Paul?No cars driven on pavements round my part of Ealing despite the endless roadworks that we’ve endured for years. I have seen emergency vehicles doing it, and I’ve seen delivery vans parked on kerbs, which I dislike but which some of your fellow anti car crowd defend because they are ‘essential workers’ apparently.

Simon Hayes ● 1898d

I've seen plenty of delivery drivers doing this whether or not there is space to park.  Scaffolding lorries, removal lorries, skip lorries - they have all been seen. Then there are cars avoiding barriers across roads. I've also seen cars not turning corners properly so that they drive over the lowered kerb on corners just missing the feet of children waiting to cross and I've seen plenty of drivers too lazy to park properly drive in forwards over the kerb and off again.  This often loosens or displaces kerbstones. Either there are monsters or giants who walk along our streets at night when we are all asleep or there are problems caused by the vehicles we've seen cracking the paving stones. Some pavements - especially where there are double yellow lines just look like the bottom of a pack of dropped biscuits..Many householders employ builders and others who do this but don't even take personal responsibility for alerting the Council to the trip hazard of cracked and rocking paving stones let alone making sure that their contractors make good properly before moving on.  It could be you or family next time who face the life threatening or changing consequences.

Philippa Bond ● 1898d

These (wrongly or not) are part  drive alongs.No vehicle driver travels the whole length blatantly & constantly.If caught, unlike the cyclists & scooters, they are fined & risk points.

Peter Yale ● 1898d

One effect will be that every time the buses bunch up behind each other at these floating bus stops, often unable to reach the dedicated passenger islands as they are stuck behind preceding buses on different routes, ALL other road traffic is going to be stopped behind them until they can stop beside the island and move on again.All so the cycling 1% of road users can feel superior over the 99% who have to suffer in their name.There is no way any of these Councillors cannot see the effects of all this, including the emergency services trying to reach the Hospital, it is just part of their war on the majority of road users in their Cars, Taxis, Vans or on the Buses.Southall suffers bad enough already, but the tailbacks this will create will hit them hard.Turning left into Windmill Lane should be fun.

Leslie Bailey ● 1897d

>>LB wrote>>  ALL other road traffic is going to be stopped behind them>>TH replies>> That's the entire point. The sole objective is to make driving a car impossible.  Full stop.

Tony Heath ● 1897d

Why do?We need road transport, either for goods or simply getting from A to B.First of all they say congestion, now pollution.So if all vehicles are electric, what’s their reason then?

Peter Yale ● 1897d

https://twitter.com/LittleEcoT/status/1412699882150825986It's not just me Simon.

Paul James ● 1895d

Sorry Paul, I don’t believe you.Keep posting your propaganda if you wish. We all just pity you now.

Simon Hayes ● 1894d

Paul, are you sure that car wasn't parked on the pavement to make a delivery? Lots of smaller businesses don't have delivery vans and use a private car to collect from the wholesaler. If so then the shopowner was faced with a choice of partially blocking the pavement or completely blocking the road. What would you have done?

Mark Evans ● 1894d

He’s not sure if anything. It’s a post from his small band of cycle warriors who hate anything to do with private cars.

Simon Hayes ● 1894d

Perhaps you could just let him answer the question? He has always been prepared to explain his point of view politely.

Mark Evans ● 1894d

Good luck with that....

Simon Hayes ● 1894d

One picture taken from distance of a car illegally parked. The driver of which, thanks to his number plate,can be issued with a fixed penalty notice (unlike the bikes which are routinely ridden on the pavement in non shared space areas. I have yet to see a car being driven on a pavement myself. One picture of one car does not constitute " every day, everywhere" does it?

N V Brooks ● 1894d

It does if you are so obsessed with it you don’t notice anything else.I was up in Hanwell this morning. Didn’t see any pavement driving or parking there at all. Very disappointing.

Simon Hayes ● 1894d

You can't be given a parking fine on the basis of a photo.

Mark Evans ● 1894d

I beg to differ. I received an PCN for stopping in a loading bay in Hammersmith (I was loading from a shop on King Street) What I missed was a 100mm square plate saying "Vehicles over 3.5t only". The only evidence of my offence was a photo taken from a static camera.

N V Brooks ● 1894d

The law was changed on this a few years ago

Mark Evans ● 1894d

It was a few years ago (2015) that I got the ticket, only one of two (the other was rescinded on a technicality) in 46 years of motoring.

N V Brooks ● 1894d

How do you think this car was gotten to where it's been parked Nigel, did it levitate?

Paul James ● 1894d

What would I have done? Never gone up on the pavement. It's illegal and dangerous.I would have found another way.

Paul James ● 1894d

Paul, that's not really the key point. Do you know for sure that the car pictured didn't have a legitimate reason for being there?

Mark Evans ● 1894d

One picture, of unknown provenance and without any information about why it was there, does not prove your point Paul. Desperate straw clutching.

Simon Hayes ● 1894d

Unless the pavement is marked out specifically for parking as I understand it right now it is illegal to be parked there.  Did you argue as much about those who just dropped off passengers at Ealing Broadway Station and got tickets?

Philippa Bond ● 1894d

A while back a relative of mine received a call from an elderly lady she helps care for who seemed to be in some distress. She called an ambulance service and then drove round to her home. When she arrived she parked on the pavement partly because she was in a rush and partly because she didn't want to restrict access for the ambulance. Some holier than though individual shared a picture on social media of her parked car with number plate clearly visible as an example of inconsiderate parking. There followed a pile on from a significant number of like-minded people many of whom made quite unpleasant personal comments. Luckily my relative doesn't go on social media and I never told her about the picture. She would have been profoundly upset if she had found out. The point I would like to emphasise is that if you do see a car that has been parked badly it would be best to know the full circumstances of why the car is there before trying to publicly shame the driver.

Gordon Southwell ● 1894d

You really should get help.I have already acknowledged that the illegally parked vehicle can be identified and a PCN issued.One illegally parked vehicle does not constitute "every day everywhere" except in LaLaLand or James' Fantasy Island.

N V Brooks ● 1893d

Sadly the Lycra-clad morons (for it is they in the main) accept no mitigation and will probably still be sharing the picture of your relative's vehicle as "proof" that pavement parking is a problem and the single occurrence that they actually witnessed is enough for these people to claim that it happens "everywhere, every day". Fantasists is generous, economical with the truth to meet their agenda is probably more accurate.

N V Brooks ● 1893d

I think that there should be better provision for mobility scooter riders.  There was a Council questionnaire several years ago about storage for these as this can be problematical.I met a lady who drives one and who definitely seems to have a lot more freedom than many car drivers.  She goes to Acton market and Dukes Meadow market and of course doesn't seem to have the parking problems that car drivers have.We had a friend who used to visit my FIL on one.  He had his route worked out well so that he knew where all the dropped kerbs were so that he knew where he could cross roads.  He made us far more aware of the difficulties he could encounter getting somewhere eg just home - if anybody parked across dropped kerbs.  I don't know if any of those pesky traffic apps does routing via dropped kerbs from one place to another.I'm also aware that there was a lady in Chiswick who got an ASBO - I think for the manner in which she drove hers.

Philippa Bond ● 1893d

This conversation has wondered off the point of the change of lane use on the Uxbridge Road to personal name calling. To bring the discussion back to the original point, it is blindingly obvious that restricting cars to only one lane on this stretch of road will create additional delays – THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT! This is part of a raft of measures taken specifically to reduce car use – the council, Mayor etc. have been relatively clear about this. The measures aren’t particularly pro-cycling – any benefits to cyclists will be purely coincidental. As a previous poster pointed out, there is already more than enough capacity for safe cycling on this section of road – if riders don’t want to use the bus lane, they will use the pavement, and will continue to do so even after the dedicated cycle lane has been created. We can see this in other sections of road, such as that alongside West Middlesex Hospital – the wanded-off lane seldom has any bikes on it. Restricting lane capacity westbound will mean that traffic intending to go straight on into Southall will be in the same lane as traffic intending to turn left down Windmill Lane – any hold-ups on either road will affect ALL westbound traffic. Any fool can see that these proposals will create a massive bottleneck. And don’t count on the “consultation” having any effect on the proposals – this will be ignored as have all previous ones. The decision has been made and the change will go ahead – the contractors will already have been booked and the permits applied for. It’s happening, and it will be horrible.

Graham Thorpe ● 1893d

Graham my apologies to you and others and thank you for putting the thread back on track.It will become like Kew Road where segregation has removed every parking space outside Kew Gardens including disabled and that used by coaches for school trips. I drove to Richmond and back and counted ONE cyclist in total along with two motorised scooters both being ridden on the pavement toward Richmond. On the way back not a single segregated lane user in sight. This is the cycling utopia we are all simply meant to accept - I think not.

N V Brooks ● 1893d

As a Cyclist using Kew road almost every day, I have to say it has become far more dangerous than it was.I am not a fast cyclist, nor is my machine which is more urban workhorse than racer.But I am fed up with those on fast machines with no bell hurling abuse at me because that cannot pass. When they try to you are either forced into the high kerb or the bollards - or they are.But the slightest strong wind gusts or the backdraft of a bus or truck and you are blown offline with little room to correct before risking the kerb or bollards. Especially if you are carrying stuff on the rack.So I hate to do it but now ride outside the bollards with the traffic.  It barely goes any faster but it's a lot safer than the triple threat inside the lane.A soft ridge kerb/ Rumble strip line would be far better.

Raymond Havelock ● 1893d

It is how each and everyone of us is going to think harder about how we can make the changes needed to improve the situation.  The more the alternatives are discussed and tried out the easier to find the solutions.  Resisting even considering any changes to the status quo doesn't help.

Philippa Bond ● 1892d

Buying less mass produced plastic tat made in Chinese factories powered by coal generated electricity then shipped over here on a diesel powered freighter to be delivered to your front door in a diesel powered van might be a start.Oh, and not buying the latest upgrade of every tech gadget. I wonder how many people have several old phones knocking about at home. All full of plastic plus some minerals that are not only highly environmentally unfriendly but also are extracted using child labour.But nobody will do that, because it’s their right to buy all this stuff, and gobble up electricity to power it all. However, one day all the polluting cars will be gone. Then where will the eco maniac lobby turn their baleful gaze...?

Simon Hayes ● 1892d

"Capisce" please Mr Brooks. Just because we're stuck with Brexit doesn't give you leave to mangle the Italian language!

Brian F Conneller ● 1890d

Scuse sincere.I missed out the ruddy s.

N V Brooks ● 1890d