Forum Topic

Ealing Broadway Station dropoffs....warning...

Beware when you drop off people at Ealing Broadway train station now. Because the regular drop-off road directly in front of the station  is now constantly blocked off for security you may be tempted to stop near the front of the station on or by the bus stops. But don't!!Ealing Council have installed a CCTV camera on the pavement opposite next to the pedestrian crossing and are enforcing parking tickets if you stop, even for a few seconds to let people off.Whilst the camera appears to have been there for several months - they informed me when I got my first parking ticket last week that they had just started enforcing this. I now have received tickets dating back to the 1st June and still coming in.

Niall Connolly ● 7013d95 Comments

Have they explained why the drop off zone is now closed?

Trizia Fiorellino ● 7013d

Maybe it is closed for perfectly good reasons such as security.

David Giles ● 7013d

Yet whenever I go there lorries, cars, anyone etc are simply moving the cones and hazard tape and driving in - yet those of us that have obeyed the temporary (?) closure will get a ticket.Wouldn't it have been more helpful to perhaps put up a sign explaining why it is closed and a suggestion where drop offs could be made safely and without being stelth-taxed...errr....sorry fined

Trizia Fiorellino ● 7013d

To date I've only had a spoken conversation with the parking enforcement by phone to query the validity of the ticket - so I don't know, but the drop off zone has been blocked off and the only reason I can see is the terrorism threat.The whole of the strip by Haven Green is now either bus stops, double yellow lines or zig-zags.I will enquire as to why the drop off is now blocked as its not unreasonable to expect people to want to let people off close to the station. I think that the small dropoff area is private property of Railtrack - hence how they were able to run private clampers a while ago. Consequently I am expecting a response from the council of "this is not our problem - we are just ensuring traffic is unobstructed". Anyone else started getting tickets ??

Niall Connolly ● 7013d

At last some might say. Fancy trying to make it safe for people to use the crossing or the bus stop just to avoid a car passenger a walk from across the road. There's a diagonal road through Haven Green that you can stop on if you have to which seems reasonable enough.The land in front of the station is indeed private property.

Norma Harrison ● 7013d

My understanding is as follows.  The station forecourt is private property.  The Police have asked them to keep it closed off for security reasons.  Obviously the owners are entitled to have access for parking and deliveries.  Whilst this situation is not ideal there is a limit to what the council can do.  Your councillors are frustrated by the poor signing and management of this area.  It will come up at Ealing Area Committee.  We would like to sort it out.  Be careful about parking in there as they have ferocious clampers who have done me.  As far as bus stops are concerned it has been an offence to park in bus stops during their hours of operation for yonks.  The Highway Code Rule 215 says:"You MUST NOT stop or park on a Bus Stop Clearway within its hours of operation." Such rules in the Highway Code are legal requirements and disobeying them is a criminal offence.  It is OK to pick up and set down on yellow lines. 

Phil Taylor ● 7013d

The diagonal road is also a double yellow line area - so not really a parking zone. whilst I know a lot of people park there to pick up and drop off now - this will be Ealings next target as some drivers do cause an obstruction there for the buses turning into this road. I am all for safe pedestrian crossing - no issue from me on this at all!I disagree with the sentiment that stopping by a bus stop is unsafe for people - after all buses are still vehicles as well. There is now no place that you can "legally" drop off now at Ealing Broadway Station and with the rigorous enforcement of parking around this area by CCTV and parking attendants even stopping for a few seconds near the station can give you a parking ticket.Is this reasonable ?

Niall Connolly ● 7013d

On single yellow lines where there are no loading restrictions. Mount Park Road and Woodville Road except between 9 - 10am and 3 - 4pm.

Francis House ● 7013d

No one is advocating parking in a bus stop - no one wants to compromise the safety of pedestrians - but there is a need for people to drop of others at the station and there isn't any drop off zones.Where is there single yellow lines rather than double? Where can we safely drop off people without breaking the law, getting in the way of pedestrians or buses - or indeed taxis?Those in high places have always been very good at banning/outlawing/criminalising all sorts of things - without ever thinking of the impact - nor thinking of an alternative or solution to the initial issue. This instance seems petty - but is just another example

Trizia Fiorellino ● 7013d

I think there is certainly room for improvement of the traffic management on/around the Ealing Broadway premises. Most people currently dropping off / picking up at Ealing Broadway are now contravening the traffic laws - which are now de-criminalised by the way and the enforcement of the offence passed to the local councils.If the Police (working with the council I hope) have requested the area to be closed off - and the council are not showing reasonable judgement to allow ordinary people to stop and not be fined if they are not obstructing traffic/buses then this is a stealth tax by another route. As Ealing council clearly have CCTV of all the "offenders" this will show who are obviously causing obstructions and who aren't.There should also be better signage to state that CCTV enforcement is in place as is required in the code of practice for the use of CCTV in this manner.

Niall Connolly ● 7013d

I am grateful for this warning.  I regularly give two visiting friends a lift to the station because they are disabled and one of whom certainly cannot move out of the car quickly.  I use my hazard lights but  I shall have to work something else out or get them to take a taxi!!Marjorie

Marjorie Meek ● 7013d

Be careful! Using hazard lights for anything but a breakdown is illegal.

Alan Brainsby ● 7013d

"Using hazard lights for anything but a breakdown is illegal."That's not what the Highway Code says:96: Hazard warning lights. These may be used when your vehicle is stationary, to warn that it is temporarily obstructing traffic.

Richard Jennings ● 7013d

I occasionally drop elderly friends/neighbours at Ealing  Broadway station - not any more, I drop 'em at West Acton now - easier and more civilised. There are some very dodgy characters hanging around Ealing B'way station and that drop-off raod is a nightmare. Perhaps whoever becomes the next Ealing Southall MP will address the inconvenience and disgrace that is Ealing's premier station! It's time the station was modernised and hows about installing some escalators?  :-(

Gerry Tan ● 7013d

In context:96: Hazard warning lights. These may be used when your vehicle is stationary, to warn that it is temporarily obstructing traffic. Never use them as an excuse for dangerous or illegal parking.

Alan Brainsby ● 7012d

The station isn't in Ealing Southall, it's in Ealing North, currently the fiefdom of that nice Mr Pound; though as he doesn't seem to be doing anything about it, and as a big chunk of its local catchment in Ealing Southall perhaps the new incumbent may be justified in taking it up on behalf of constituents. That's unlikely to happen though if, as some fear, we end up with 'Piara Kabra mark 2'.

Chris Veasey ● 7012d

Further reports of this are now appearing in the Ealing gazette...http://icealing.icnetwork.co.uk/ealinggazette/headlines/tm_headline=80-for-3-seconds-parking&method=full&objectid=19462623&siteid=67372-name_page.htmlHow much money is the council making on this ??

Niall Connolly ● 7012d

According to www.election-maps.co.uk, Ealing Broadway station is currently in Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush but following the boundary changes taking effect after the next General Election will be in Ealing Central and Acton.Point taken about Piara Khabra Mk II though! ;-)

James de Vivenot ● 7012d

Yes, the advice from the Highway Code is that hazard warning lights should never be used to excuse illegal parking.  There is nothing illegal about using hazard lights when stationary, but their use won't protect you from prosecution for illegal parking.Actually it's illegal stopping that we're talking about here. A bus stop with a wide yellow line next to the kerb is a "bus stop clearway", and no stopping is permitted.  (The restriction may be part-time, as indicated on a plate, but I think generally the ones in London operate 24 hours/day.)  This has been the law for at least 10 years.  See the Highway Code, Rule 215.

Richard Jennings ● 7012d

Thank you for the warning. Perhaps we need to clearaway a Tfl clearway or simply have the camera turned off!

Robert Darke ● 7012d

Never knew hazard lights illegal in these circs.  I bet many other drivers who use them to try to ensure visibility and safety dont either.  Why oh why is Life being made so difficult at every turn.Marjorie

Marjorie Meek ● 7012d

Thank goodness for that.  Here was I thinking OOOPsgot the hazard light thing wrong, but it appears that acting in the best safety interests is OK.  I'd better go back and fish out my copy of the Highway code again. Ages since I read it!

Marjorie Meek ● 7012d

"I'd better go back and fish out my copy of the Highway code again. Ages since I read it!"The current issue is marked "Revised 2004", but there's a new edition due out in September.

Richard Jennings ● 7011d

Wasn't the Gazette running a campaign to get Ealing Broadway made more accessible?  What happened?  Being able to drop off passengers should be part of it.

Philippa Bond ● 7011d

Plenty of places to drop off close to the station, with the exception of westbound buses from Ealing Common. Which idiot(s) moved the bus stop so far east? To use these points drive your passengers to a bus stop on a route which serves one of these "drop-off" points and deposit your passengers there, remembering not to actually stop your car at the bus stop. If necessary give your now ex-passengers £2 each for the fare and a piece of paper showing them where to get of the bus.I am always amused about drop-off - can't walk 50 metres to railway station, but quite prepared to walk downstairs and 100  - 200 metres along concourses and platforms. The same is true of superstores - disabled parking within a few metres of the store's entrances then the "physically-challenged" walk hundreds of metres within.Even if there was drop-off parking, say where the 65 southbound 65 bus stop was, somebody would still complain that they didn't have vehicular access to the platforms.

Alan Brainsby ● 7011d

parking in a proper parking place and paying £1 should stop people giving money to ealing council.The highway code is also a good guide to driving/parking dont whinge park in a legal place .

Verification Required ● 7010d

And where exactly are these 'proper parking places' (at any charge) anywhere near the station entrance?

Chris Veasey ● 7010d

One wonders why the parking enforcement camera opposite Ealing Broadway station never seems to be trained on the vehicles clogging the corner outside the Parade Deli and Shanakee wine bar each morning.As any early morning commuter will know, these vehicles belong to employers who pick up casual workers from what has become a sort of open air migrant labour supermarket.  (One wonders if the national minimum wage, tax and national insurance are treated with any more regard than the parking restrictions.)These dangerously parked cars stop buses turning right onto the road across Haven Green.  How is it they can apparently get away with stopping here each morning on double yellow lines for as long as they want to ply their dodgy trade in casual labour, while the camera is turned on the front of the station in the hope of trapping those who stop for just a few seconds to drop off passengers?(Incidentally, by way of a legal disclaimer, there's no suggestion that the deli or wine bar are involved in any of this.  Both businesses are shut at this time of the morning.)

Mark Percy ● 7010d

I can`t help thinking of a recent trip to Italy where I observed a policeman not only working a busy pedestrian crossing but guiding drivers to drop-off passengers in a no-nonsense but helpful way. This was an expected part of community life! The benefit to the police was that the policeman was really in touch with the local community, and knows whats happening! The benefit to the public was reassurance in preventative policing and no unfair cameras!Perhaps the council would consider stationing and allocating proper duties to PCSOs in the station area. Theyshould`nt allow any waiting but help with drop-offs and pick-ups!

Robert Darke ● 7010d

but then they wouldn't get all that jolly useful fine money would they?

Trizia Fiorellino ● 7010d

No they wouldn`t! Whats worrying is that its OUR transport hub and OUR elected council should be making the station area USER FRIENDLY including drop-offs by car or taxi.

Robert Darke ● 7007d

Well Ruth Kelly is telling us so this afternoon!

Philippa Bond ● 7006d

This completely sucks and is indicative of the shambolic planning that blights the travelling public in Ealing and beyond.The council have done a great job of designing Haven Green in a manner that ensures there is very limited scope for travellers to interchange from cars, bikes, scooters etc to trains and the underground. They've also ensured that unlike nearly every other main rail station I can think of, there is no parking whatsoever for scooters within 1/2 mile - so even if people can be persuaded to abandon 4 wheels for 2, there is no consideration whatsoever of how their needs should be met.Aside from the fact there is no legal drop off space within 200m of the station, council staff suggest people pick up / drop off travellers outside the Irish Pub - which is not only on double yellows but also exactly the place where the police move you on if you stop.More annoyingly, the new CCTV camera has no signage - so there can't even be a pretence that it's there as a deterrent. The final cheek of the council is that their whizzy new CCTV camera doesn't cover the cycle racks in the same area where bikes are being repeatedly stolen and vandalised (including mine twice in the last month).Maybe instead of "investing" in covert CCTV cameras council staff could invest in some thinking time to identify solutions that would actually resolve the problems of set downs / pick ups without penalising the very same public that pay their salaries?

Toby Lovern ● 7006d

Actually, there is now some signage for the CCTV.  There are new signs in front of the station with flashing lights warning you that a recording is in progress.

Mark Percy ● 7006d

Of course there is no close parking for scooters. No self-respecting railway company would want their trains clogged up by crash-helmet carrying parka wearers!It's bad enough with persons wearing cycle clips, especially when they've got the b***** bikes with them.

Alan Brainsby ● 7006d

Even the council website is showing that 360 cameras are now in operation throughout the borough as if its a good thing compared to the safe camera-free English community with preventative policing I grew up in!I would like to see a policeman on crossing duty and keeping an experienced eye on the area; linking up with a station manager and more prominent railway staff, with a PCSO or two helping commuters, enabling drop-offs and delivery drivers, shoppers, visitors, watching the bicycle racks and in a good spirit!

Robert Darke ● 7006d

If you drop someone off, you are not parked but unloading, What are the loading/unloading restrictions in the area as defined by yellow lines on the kerb stones as opposed to the continues lines in the gutter? See your Highway Code.

Peter Wright ● 7005d

The Highway Code (http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs09.htm#along) is very clear that dropping people off is not loading.  It is very clear that you can drop of on yellow lines even where there are waiting restrictions.  On red routes you can't drop off (but a taxi can). 

Phil Taylor ● 7005d

From the Highway Code -"On the kerb or at the edge of the carriagewayLoading restrictions on roads other than Red RoutesYellow marks on the kerb or at the edge of the carriageway indicate that loading or unloading is prohibited at the times shown on the nearby black and white plates. You may stop while passengers board or alight. If no days are indicated on the signs the restrictions are in force every day including Sundays and Bank Holidays."Are we talking refunds, with expenses for inconveniences, to local voters here?

Peter Wright ● 7005d

Peter/Linda,We are talking at cross purposes here.  If anyone has picked up tickets it will have been for dropping off on pedestrian crossing zig-zags or bus stops - both fair cops.  You are allowed to drop off on yellow lines and will not incur a penalty for doing so - otherwise the ticket was issued in error.

Phil Taylor ● 7005d

I hope everyone is taking on board that what is badly missing is the personal presence of uniformed police, railway staff, PCSO`s actually helping the public, as much as the poor physical facilities and revenue raiser.The new council has made noticeable improvements in street cleaning (a good report from Norwood Green this morning) and graffiti removal by managing properly but will need to knock a lot of heads together to improve Ealing Broadway and restore civic pride.

Robert Darke ● 7005d

OK I'm with you now,    "167: You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD reg 10, 27 & 28"Just wondering what the legal definition of parking is though?If a passenger gets out of a car that is waiting at the lights, is that car parked?

Peter Wright ● 7005d

Somebody on Ealing Times also asked for the definition of parking and has not had a reply.If you can not define parking, how can you issue a ticket?

Peter Wright ● 7005d

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs09.htm#alongAlong the edge of the carriagewayWaiting restrictionsWaiting restrictions indicated by yellow lines apply to the carriageway, pavement and verge. You may stop to load or unload (unless there are also loading restrictions as described below) or while passengers board or alight. Double yellow lines mean no waiting at any time, unless there are signs that specifically indicate seasonal restrictions. The times at which the restrictions apply for other road markings are shown on nearby plates or on entry signs to controlled parking zones. If no days are shown on the signs, the restrictions are in force every day including Sundays and Bank Holidays. White bay markings and upright signs (see below) indicate where parking is allowed.

Alan Brainsby ● 7005d

The Highway Code states clearly that you must not park on the zigzags around a pedestrian crossing, it does NOT say you must not stop on a zigzag. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Parking is the act of stopping a vehicle and leaving it unoccupied for more than a brief time.If Wikipedia is correct, then quite clearly you can discharge and collect passengers while stopped on the zigzags, providing the driver does not leave the vehicle or switch of the engine.Obviously this needs clarification but it looks like Ealing Council may have acted over zealously in imposing these so-called fines and may have to consider issuing some refunds and apologies.

Peter Wright ● 7005d

215: You MUST NOT stop or park on    * the carriageway or the hard shoulder of a motorway except in an emergency (see Rule 244)    * a pedestrian crossing, including the area marked by the zig-zag lines (see Rule 167)    * a Clearway (see Traffic signs section)    * a Bus Stop Clearway within its hours of operation

Alan Brainsby ● 7005d

See story on this subject on the front page

Charlie Canniff ● 7005d

"See story on this subject on the front page"the story on the front page effectively tells us the council have recognised they should have put signs up but failed to do so. It's amazing they can issue press releases and 1000 dummy tickets without actually thinking about signage - then again I very much doubt the intention was to do anything other than raise revenue. If the intention was to improve safety (as the council claims) they would be dealing with other more obvious issues in the same area e.g. dangerously parked / double parked buses, buses that pull out in front of cyclists / cars / scooters without signalling and the many cars that use the stretch of road outside the station as a race track.

Toby Lovern ● 7005d

OK Alan, rule 215 refers you to rule 167 for support but rule 167 does not say anything about stopping, it only says you must not park.  Let's consider the other question, if a car stops for the lights and a passenger leaves the car, is that car driver committing a parking offence?  Let's also ask, can the traffic lights be seen by the camera? On Google earth I can see a car waiting in front of the barriers but outside of the zigzags, is that car illegally parked?

Peter Wright ● 7005d

If crime stats could be represented like a relief map then the area around Ealing Broadway Station would be a mountain. So we like to pick up the young, the old, those who have had long journeys, and those with luggage for convenience and SAFETY reasons using our cars. The last part of their journey is often difficult on foot or by bus even if our guests knew where they were going. The route on foot from the station to my home isn't safe after dark and the bus doesn't help much. I am having difficulty understanding coning off the road by the station for security reasons. We had one bomb in Ealing and that was in the Uxbridge Road. Let's cone that off. Income drives the camera scam not road safety or congestion.Try to get a real parking/safety issue addressed where there is no fiscal gain as I did and you'll find the authorities less than eager to solve the problem

Arthur Breens ● 7005d

Okay, I'm conceding on the pickup on zigzag lines issue but obviously something needs to be done outside the station for dropping off and picking up passengers.  I would not expect any improvements for a couple of years or so, not until we get closer to the next round of council elections I think.The Conservatives will need something to win our votes, they won't be able to use the tram as an election winner next time round.

Peter Wright ● 7005d

Having read the Ealingtoday article and interview with a representative of the council (BTW who is this unknown representative The council ?)- the representative states that:"The camera was installed at the beginning of May 07 and enforcement began on June 28.""During June, around 1,000 dummy tickets were sent out with warning notices to drivers who had parked on the zig-zag lines and bus stops, advising them they could be fined for doing so again."If the this is the case then why are the council enforcing tickets before the June 28th enforcement date ? I have three Penalty charge notices dating from 1st June, 11th June and 18th June ?Surely they are contradicting themselves in their statements ? Issuing a press release to notify people is pretty pointless and is never guaranteed to reach the people that need to know and is a minimum effort to communicate this important change in enforcement. Very poor if you consider the level of fines is likely to be very high - probably several thousand pounds a day currently! Here's an idea for the council when announcing things that are so punitive: "USE BIG SIGNS" and how about some people for the first few days of enforcement warning people or handing out notices of the change? Will the council admit that this has been implemented very poorly - of course not. They are only enforcing "the traffic rules" and as elected officials they have the power to ignore the general community until the next election.Motorists are easy targets for the council to fineand then go on and state that they are reducing crime and improving our community - in reality there are issues around Ealing Broadway station that don't appear to be being addressed by CCTV. Why - because it is far easier to sit in a CCTV booth and note down licence plate numbers than to get people on the street to clean it, assist people and deter anti-social behaviour. Plus CCTV traffic rule enforcement makes a lot of people money - or am I too cynical ?And what is the point of a scrutiny committee meeting in Sept when the problem is clearly now ?  Pointless beauracracy or what!

Niall Connolly ● 7004d

There needs to be rigorous and immediate scrutiny of "Parking Services"!

Robert Darke ● 7004d

What? Stick a few CCTVs in their office and have something like Big Brother. It might be as exciting as watching grass grow... until someone stops his car for milliseconds. There could be a phone-in to get someone evicted - £80 a call.£40 of which to Unison so they wouldn't complain.Having said that, if its the grey camera on the west side of the crossing at EB, the operator is very vigilant and adept with a joystick. It's free entertainment while waiting for the bus.

Alan Brainsby ● 7004d

You may not realise that we, including bus passengers, are being laughed at by visitors from many countries, who cannot believe that our transport hub interchange doesn`t have proper drop-off provision, a facility which they take for granted. The Japanese in particular take this as their cultural superiority, even without knowing that there are parking fines for not parking! 

Robert Darke ● 7004d

Praise be! Has someone used a bit of gumption? The service road in front of the station was open this evening. (I hope I haven't spoken too soon!)

Peter Wright ● 7004d

It has always amazed me that there is parking in that service road. Surely if offices and shops are built ON a railway station then the workforce should travel to and from by train or bus. As I recollect none of those premises operate a delivery service.Drop-off/pick-up could be self-enforcing by providing a single lane for private cars. Thus anyone parking would block everyone behind. The remaining space could be used exclusively for commercial deliveries. 

Alan Brainsby ● 7003d

"Drop-off/pick-up could be self-enforcing by providing a single lane for private cars. Thus anyone parking would block everyone behind. The remaining space could be used exclusively for commercial deliveries."That's the most sensible suggestion I've heard so far about drop off/pick-ups at the slip road outside Eal.B'way station. I've been using that road for more than 50 years and it's always been difficult. Surely those responsible - the owners, Ealing Council, London Underground, the Police, GLA and whoever else - should get together and do something sensible about drop-off and pick-ups at what is our premier transport hub in Ealing. for goodness sakes folks, this is 2007 not 1947! This would never happen in Paris, Singapore or Moscow - please get together and sort something out ASAP.  :-(

Gerry Tan ● 7003d

Councillor Barchuk on 30 July is reported to have said that 'local sensitivies' will be taken into account when any further CCTV law enforcement is introduced.What's missing from his reported statement is any regret or sympathy perhaps for the thousands of furious residents who have been fined recently for attempting to legally drop-off or pick-up their loved ones at Ealing Broadway Station. What's also missing is any hint of disciplining Council Officers for installing and running this pick-up/drop-off 'trap' without authorisation from Council Members.Councillor Barchuk, as the Council's Transport boss, has now taken public responsibility for CCTV enforcement. It will be interesting to see whether he can actually control the activities of Council Officers in this arena - control which has been clearly absent in the recent past.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6999d

The council has admitted to over 5000 tickets have been issued since enforcing this. This is an income to the council of over £200K. A very tidy sum!Suggested solution of dropping off on the side opposite to the station is plain stupid. If safety is the primary concern of the council - surely forcing passengers to step into traffic is less safe than dropping off on the side of the station.If congestion is the main reason for enforcing this - maybe the council can provide "statistics" that show the congestion before enforcement and afterwards. I can't see that I've seen a difference. Was there a problem beforehand ? Or was it purely in peoples minds that they were irritated by people stopping to dropoff friends and relatives from private vehicles rather than public transport...Council officers and councillors should remember that they are there to serve. Councillor Barchuk should resign if he cannot exercise proper oversight and control and the council should discipline the officers responsible for this farce.

Niall Connolly ● 6999d

Not particularly wishing to play devil's advocate but the road markings around EB station have been there for many years.Thanks to previous failure to enforce those restrictions now, when they are enforced, people squeak.I have noticed in the last few days very few cars stop along that section so that I have been able to board route 297 buses with the minimum of inconvenience.It would be rather nice if that £200K went towards improving the drainage of the pavement and road at that point, and perhaps improving the road markings also.

Alan Brainsby ● 6998d

"Not particularly wishing to play devil's advocate but the road markings around EB station have been there for many years."Alan, you've missed the point. The drop off / pick up space outside the station has been coned off ostensibly on police advice to reduce security risks. Even allowing for the fact most terrorists are unlikely to be too bothered about 3 plastic bollards obstructing access to the station, the council has not come up with an alternative place for drop offs. They suggest drop offs / pick ups can take place on the opposite side of the road but that's the very same place I tried to pick someone up - only to be moved on by the police, and then crawled round the stupid one way system on Haven Green (adding to congestion in the process)and then back to the station where I received a ticket for my troubles.There is no alternative designated pick up / drop off space anywhere around the perimeter of Haven Green - largely due to the last council redesign of the road system. Ealing Broadway is a busy interchange where travellers move from road transport to rail and tube. Simply suspending the drop off space for no good reason, failing to offer any alternative (or even committing to doing so) and then fining people who are just trying to do the right thing and use public transport where possible smacks of a council that is not at all interested in finding solutions to the problems its customers face.

Toby Lovern ● 6998d

The area outside the station is Railtrack property. They don't want riff-raff car drivers stopping there for free when the space can be rented out. Whether one thinks it should be used for setdown/pickup it is a commercial decision by Railtrack. After all they don't actually run the trains... To suggest that it should be used for inter-modal transfer is like suggesting W H Smith should provide parking places on Uxbridge Road while one pops in to buy a newspaper, which is probably why car drivers don't buy their newspapers at that Smith outlet.Better to boycott EB station altogether, there are alternative Underground stations around, and First GW will soon get the message when passenger numbers fall by probably no more 0.001 per cent.In fact EB station should be boycotted until there is proper disabled access to all platforms, including those used by London Underground, and a decent connection to a tramway made...

Alan Brainsby ● 6998d

I've been trying to keep my head down on this one in order to get a life of sorts, but have to answer those last 2 paras:-Even if a widespread boycott could be made to happen (which it won't) FGW couldn't give a toss about a bit of a decline in ridership at Ealing Broadway -  just give them an excuse to further reduce their already abysmal service levels, and free up more capacity for the longer distance commuter and other trains to/from central London which earn most of their fare revenue. That has always been, and will always be, the mainline rail operator mentality, whether in public or private ownership  -  they'd just love to get rid of all these pesky inner urban stops and concentrate on the longer distance operations.In any case the overwhelming majority of punters at Ealing Broadway are tube passengers, not FGW.As for your closing comment, I take it 'tramway' was a typo for 'trolleybus system'.

Chris Veasey ● 6998d

Spot on Chris, I did mean trolleybus. I believe EB was originally opened (as Ealing Haven) out of necessity to provide useful income for the London to Bristol railway while it was being completed.The trouble was that GW never closed the suburban stations after the completion of the enterprise. Had they done so we would have less to complain about, perhaps. The Ealing and Shepherd's Bush Central London Railway extension would never have been built, but we'd be complaining about the non-existent tram service to Shepherd's Bush to get the Central.The Metropolitan District Railway might not have built a branch to Ealing Broadway thus improving its service to South Harrow. In fact, Ealing Common might have become the transport hub, plenty of space to build underground car parks and set down points but probably impossible as the North Circular widening would have already happened...Now that's a thought, widen NC and put a tram system alongside it.

Alan Brainsby ● 6998d

Aside from the awkwardness of stopping anywhere near (within 10 metres it seems) of Ealing Broadway station I wonder when the council will do something about the bikes chained to the pedestrian barrier on the western side of the crossing.The bikes are unsightly and dangerous with their pedals and handlebars sticking out across the pavement.Surely, somewhere in the council rulebook (if they haven't lost it) there must be a by-law restricting the use of  pedestrian barriers for the purpose of immobilizing pedal vehicles.

Alan Brainsby ● 6998d

Perhaps the answer's to remove the unnecessary and obstructive guardrailing, there and at other crossings throughout the borough, in accordance with current national guidance in the new Manual for Streets.Unfortunately in such matters we're stuck with some intransigent Council officers and consultants who know they know best what's good for us and will continue to do what they please till our new Councillors realise they're meant to be in charge with officers there to advise but ultimately to do what they're told.

Chris Veasey ● 6998d

Chris, if hindering the drop-off point would it be possible to shift the 297 bus-stop to the far-end? ooooh.sorry Alan.. believe EB opened in 1838 was orignally plain EALING for quite a few years and probably changed when Castle Hill & Ealing Dean opened in 1871 (now WE). Ealing Haven sounds like a bus conductors call which I think I`ve heard on the 97 bus years ago.

Robert Darke ● 6998d

"The area outside the station is Railtrack property. They don't want riff-raff car drivers stopping there for free when the space can be rented out. Whether one thinks it should be used for setdown/pickup it is a commercial decision by Railtrack. After all they don't actually run the trains... "No Alan, it's Network Rail Property - Network Rail being the quango set up at our expense to supposedly better serve the needs of the travelling public. Which makes it all the more unacceptable that they access to the station forecourt is restricted - as it stands at present, access was actually better under the 'for profit' Network Rail.

Toby Lovern ● 6998d

No, Robert! The 297/226 bus stop is perfectly placed. The only change I would make would be to move the 226 to the E1/E10 stop, or beyond (E2/E9) so that the patrons of route 297 wouldn't have to walk past either the buses of 226 or the punters that use them!Thank you for the correction of the station name. I seem to remember reading that Ealing station was originally built slightly further west (hence Ealing Haven) and rebuilt in its present location and renamed. I'll try and find the source.Toby, Network Rail of course! Railtrack got wound up didn't it? And all those grubby investors lost their money.Same as Ken's got caught over Metronet, saying if the works  had been done internally there wouldn't have been a cost overrun. No, the real figure would have been higher and the cost fudged into some other account.

Alan Brainsby ● 6998d

"Toby, Network Rail of course! Railtrack got wound up didn't it? And all those grubby investors lost their money."All those 'grubby investors' largely comprised institutional investors such as the pension funds - so it wasn't grubby investors who lost money, it was anyone who has a pension.Anyway, this is a misreading of what happened which is that the govt took a company, forced it into administration through blatant skullduggery (ostensibly on the grounds it would save money and improve service) only to waste over nearly £2B of tax payers money in the process and then replace it with the SRA Network Rail under which performance and safety has deteriorated and costs have risen faster than  under Railtrack. Are we seriously supposed to believe this was a good result for the tax payer or the travelling public?

Toby Lovern ● 6997d

I referred to them as "grubby investors" because it seemed it was an investment that nobody could lose on - it was ostensibly land. Very little private investors' money got the chance, fortunately, to buy shares in it.Regarding pension funds generally, they seem to be the reason why everything in this country is so expensive. They own many of the shopping centres and so are pushing rents up. Higher rents mean higher prices. That's probably why the Beale company is pulling out. We can't afford to shop there, they can't afford to be there.We seem to pay three times for our pension - state contribution, employment contribution and, indirectly, by shopping. If pension companies made real investments and not grubbing off consumers then I would gladly drop the accolade "grubby" .

Alan Brainsby ● 6997d

As I waited for the 297  this lunch time it crossed my mind that the obvious thing to do on the east side of Haven Green would be to make the whole kerbside strip a 24/7 bus lane. Starting after the zigzag fron the NE crossing and extending all the way to the 112 stop, with crossing gaps where needed.This would end ANY confusion about stopping.A possible second bus lane could be laid on the diagonal.Incidentally, does the diagonal have a name?Perhaps the council has got it up its sleeve to do this when they've recovered the cost of camera installation and part of of its running cost, or perhaps not.Then, perhaps Traffic Management have lost the stencil...

Alan Brainsby ● 6984d

Why are those of use who live south of Ealing Broadway having to travel all that way around a one way system anyway to get to such an important station?  It should be more accessible from all directions to make it more user-friendly.  Can the Council please spend more time and energy promoting and encouraging its use with Parking Services and the Transport Services working together/liaising.  If it was better organised and more user-friendly there would not be this problem ...

Philippa Bond ● 6983d

Solution to dropoffs at Ealing Broadway? Go to Acton Town Station instead. No cameras there. Cars stop on zig-zags, double yellow lines and the pedestrian crossing. Plus the mini-cab firm based in the station has its fleet of cars parked outside blocking cars and buses from passing. One big free-for-all!!!

David Archer ● 6981d

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/6956558.stmEven our council hasn't managed that!Or has it?

Alan Brainsby ● 6978d

"Some elderly people are unsteady on their feet and could risk falling into the road."What planet do these officials live on?

David Archer ● 6978d

If Ealing council would like our support on this issue, then all they need do, is show some videos of the congestion caused by the drivers who drop off passengers at the station and written evidence of the communications they have had with the rail company who closed the service road.

Peter Wright ● 6978d

Planet North!

Alan Brainsby ● 6978d

ahhhh wat a nice surpriseIts my birthdya on friday, so amongst the few birthdya cards I have recieved, my g/f got a lovely letter from the sodding council for a £50 fine grrrrrr

Mark Yates ● 6977d

Mark,Best Wishes for Friday.Is it your 50th?

Alan Brainsby ● 6977d

Commiserations for your g/f.Probably the costliest few seconds of "stopping" she's received. At least you probably got a nice picture of her car for your birthday.I wonder how much the council slush fund has increased since this started ?

Niall Connolly ● 6977d

27 and yer we got 2 photos- 1 of her in the car and the 2nd photo of her car reg plateI'm thinking of framing them

Mark Yates ● 6977d

i cud think of a nicer present

Mark Yates ● 6977d

Ask for a receipt!

Alan Brainsby ● 6977d

Having attended this evenings Ealing Area Committee and listened to the Parking Services Officer I think there is considerable difficulty in making them understand that a decent drop-off/pick-up point is required and NOT PARKING.(a small number of places would be quickly clogged up) There is little remorse shown for the camera as another officer assured councillors that it was installed for safety and not revenue purposes!

Robert Darke ● 6958d

I also attended the Ealing Area Committee meeting last night. I naively thought before the meeting that an apology (for the Ealing Broadway Station ticketing of 1,000s of car drivers dropping off and picking up) from a Council Officer might be forthcoming. In this I was disappointed.It seems there's still a long way to go before this Council actually concentrates on providing enabling services for residents in this area as opposed to providing disabling services for residents. Obviously the plethora of moving vehicle and stationary vehicle offences have a place in our society and a reason for their existence. The law must be upheld. However the primacy of providing enabling services for residents must be recognised.If you can't easilly and safely drop off or pick up your aging granny off at Ealing Broadway Station (or at West Ealing Station for that matter) then there's something seriously wrong here. The cold, unemotional attitude of Officers Burns and Peacock at the meeting  was perhaps understandable as their job competence was being publicly questioned at the meeting. For an issue as hot as this one, one might have expected the Council's CEO Dara Singh to have been at the meeting to defend his Officers but again I was dissappointed by his absence.Many Councillors, to their credit, made it abundantly clear that they felt they had been let down by Officers taking  action instead of carrying out research as requested - and also for failing to keep them informed of their action. And at least this issue was aired to some extent in public. Establishing the actual facts was difficult and it shouldn't have needed a resident issuing a Freedom of Information Act request to actually get at these facts.Finally, this was a poorly attended meeting with less that 20 residents out of a population of 75,000 attending. It's no wonder that the Council is questioning the usefulness of  Area Committee meetings and whether a more productive local democratic process can be put in place to replace them.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6958d

Hear, hear, Eric.  It took one hour for "any other Business" and I don't think one Councillor spoke during that time.  The Chairman of Pitshanger Community Association had to wait until 10pm before we arrived at the item he was interested in.  It was at 9.45pm that Cllr Popham was able to raise the issue of opening up Pitshanger Park toilets for a pilot period during weekends and during the summer only when there is heavy use of the park.  We had a discussion of 15 minutes, pros and cons, by Councillors and officers and it was agreed to do a pilot as suggested.

Barbara Yerolemou ● 6957d

I have been caught [twice] by the new camera - I'm still trying very hard not to get worked up about the fact the council can manage to point two cameras at the station and none at the adjacent bike racks where myself and many other commuters have found our bikes repeatedly vandalised or stolen in recent months. I noticed this morning that warning signs have now been erected - or rather "scattered" round the station area and approach roads. Whoever determined the citing of the new signs was clearly either not a driver, or working to avoid placing the signs in locations where drivers would actually see them and change their choice of drop off point to comply with completely pointless rules. The new signs are first of all too high on the run up to the station to be seen by drivers - the first is c11ft off the ground. Subsequent signs are so numerous that it's not clear what they are warning against since they just have a camera logo that many drivers will confuse with speed camera signs.The council has also erected flashing CCTV signs on lampposts that are consistent with ones also erected recently on paved areas round the Broadway shopping centre.The one thing the council has not done is to put a big warning sign up outside the station that would clearly instruct drivers "if you stop here you will be filmed and fined by the CCTV camera opposite". That would seem to me to be not only more cost effective than the ridiculous number of signs erected and still missed by drivers, it would also be more likely to have the desired effect i.e. reducing drop off's outside the station. Clearly this is just too obvious for the council officers involved.

Toby Lovern ● 6957d

How I wish I'd seen this thread before! I have only dipped in and out of this site as I normally use the Chiswickw4 site. I have just received a ticket for stopping for a minimum of 5 seconds in a bus-stop by Ealing Broadway tube to drop off 2 children. The photograph clearly shows there are no buses in the area and little traffic-it was a Saturday at 11.44. It just seems so unfair that stopping for a few seconds and not causing any obstruction warrants such a harsh fine. It would be interesting to see how much crime such as muggings etc has been captured by the same cameras-or are they just for parking restrictions?

Margot Crowther ● 6935d

"It would be interesting to see how much crime such as muggings etc has been captured by the same cameras-or are they just for parking restrictions?"I have drawn to the attention of the council that less than 10m away from the CCTV camera there are frequently thefts of and damage to bikes in the adjacent bike racks. From personal experience, and talking to cycle commuters, these thefts are weekly, if not daily.Somewhat predictably the CCTV does not, and is unlikely to ever cover the bike racks. Herein lies the problem - CCTV in this instance is being used to raise revenue as the council have not erected any clear warning signs to warn drivers not to drop off - and the same council would seem to be uninterested in using the CCTV cameras, or the revenue from them, to address criminal activity in the same area.

Toby Lovern ● 6935d

when was the last time you saw a camera jump off a wall and chase someone? We seem to think a camera is the answer to all crime.its only as good as its operator's need more proper police not cpo,s

Verification Required ● 6934d

A friend's son works in one of the Ealing clubs, he was severely attacked by some East Europeans who had been ejected from the club earlier. He ended up with his front teeth in the palm of his hand and needing £7,000 worth of dental treatment. The police had to ask him to  obtain any video recordings which may have been captured on CCTV, presumably because they were not allowed direct access themselves. The camera had unfortunately been looking in a different  direction but I find it incredulous that the police do not have free and ready access to such CCTV information, in fact I think all the councils CCTV should be readily available on the web. Infringement of peoples privacy? No, I don't think so, I can go to traffic and surveillance CCTV sites all over the country on the web, so why not Ealing. If the general public could see what a privileged few can see, perhaps the  yobbish element of our society would be less yobbish. (Warning, irony starts now). "If motorists could see the extreme danger they are putting the public into and the chaos they are causing to the public transport system they would be more considerate in dropping people off for the station and that the council are not using CCTV as a cash cow."

Peter Wright ● 6933d

Philippa Bond ● 6782d

There are threads going back years on this subject!

Philippa Bond ● 6013d