Forum Topic

Daniels Store

Anyone know what's happening with the new Daniels store.  I've been told there's a dispute with Daniels and the building contractor.

Pat Kingham ● 6929d25 Comments

Don't know much about the builders bit, but there are talks going on about Mattock Lane Clinic relocating there. Effectively moving from a FREEHOLD property to a LEASEHOLD property plus the premium, rent, installations etc...all exras (public) money needed to do that. Does that make sense???

Stephen Farmer ● 6929d

It doesn`t make sense but makes me wonder what may come instead of the Clinic in Mattock Lane which is well situated in a quiet environment at the moment and on part of the King Edwards Hospital site. Will it be another huge block of flats? Surely West Ealing and the wider area has enough on its plate absorbing the Waitrose, Daniels and Sinclair House blocks of flats.

Robert Darke ● 6929d

There was definitely a legal dispute between Daniel family and Crest Nicholson.  Apparently the ceiling height on the ground floor intended for retail use were not built to spec, the ceiling height was too low.  Daniel were seeking damages, aggravated by the fact that they could no longer dispose of the site at an inflated price to some supermarket chain, because the lower ceiling height precluded it for use in food retailing.  However, since the original planning permission was granted on the basis of a commitment by Daniel that they were going to move back in (and carefully crafted restrictions on the approval precluded the site being used for food retailing or broken up into smaller units), that seemed a bit rich!I understand it was settled out of court, but I don't know how - any other posters know?I've heard the rumours about the site being a potential super-surgery, which doesn't sound too bad an idea from a local resident's perspective.

Robin Hall ● 6926d

Buying the freehold and selling on, renting back the leasehold, is what M&S do.For the NHS is makes reasonable sense to do the same, as long as they sell the land at an economic price. The money so raised will pay for leasing a site for some years. When that site in no longer fit for purpose they can simply move on to another.

Alan Brainsby ● 6926d

See my first posting about Mattock Lance Clinic & Daniels.It may seem like a good idea, but what about the cost, not just short term, but long term (running costs).As tax payer, I am NOT happy about it.Are you?

Stephen Farmer ● 6926d

Not when you sell it for less than the "relocation cost", Premium & rent plus all the Fixtures & Fittings (equipments) etc....I Understand that from their board papers, they may get £3M-£5M for the site, but it will cost at leasdt £7M for the inital "Relocation costs" (excluding future rent & increases).Does this make sese to you???

Stephen Farmer ● 6926d

I don't use the Mattock Lane surgery so I'm not familiar with the parking situation there but I do wonder where the patients are supposed to park if they move to the Daniels site on the Uxbridge Road.

Pat Kingham ● 6926d

No. It seems extremely wasteful and very stupid indeed. I can imagine a private walk-in surgery for swift attention which Robin may have in mind but to move an NHS or Health Authority clinic to that location from the Mattock Lane site is plain wrong.It doesn`t make sense either financially or from the patients point of view, to move from a relatively quiet and pleasant environment.(and with parking)

Robert Darke ● 6926d

"As tax payer, I am NOT happy about it. Are you?"If they are moving towards setting up a polyclinic that provides a wider range of services to local patients e.g. longer opening hours, out of hours services, bloods, diagnostics, simple operations etc then yes - it's potentially cost effective providing the impact on local Secondary Care Trusts has been properly modelled. There's a Polyclinic recently established in Hounslow as a cost saving measure by the PCT. The general approach is laid out in a paper by Ara Darzi called "Healthcare for London" available at http://www.healthcareforlondon.nhs.uk/.

Toby Lovern ● 6926d

If the health centre moved I am sure the Mattock Lane Pharmacy would apply to move there too.

Graham Weeks ● 6925d

There is to be "some" parking on site but limited.Also a pharmacy will be "renting" part of the ground floor near the clinic's entrance area.I can really see these "money saving" works under NHS, can you?

Stephen Farmer ● 6924d

"I can really see these "money saving" works under NHS, can you?"Unless you are privy to the plans for the range of services to be offered by the clinic, and any impact on the flow of patients to local hospitals due to better primary care I can't quite see how you can make an informed assessment of whether money will be saved or not. You can't simply look at the cost of primary care without also looking at how the relationship with secondary (hospital) care changes.

Toby Lovern ● 6924d

Bona fide patients are usually crowded out of the Mattock Lane surgery carpark by local commuters and shoppers misusing the facility. The surgery staff are well aware of this but they've always claimed they can't afford to put in an access control system to stop this abuse.Unfortunately under current Council maximum (rather than minimum) planning standards for parking provision in developments (which respects current national planning policy guidance), including health establishments, they wouldn't be allowed to provide more than a handful of parking spaces, primarily for staff and other 'essential users'. The rationale for maximum parking standards is to force punters to walk, cycle or get the bus, on the 'sustainable transport' ticket  -  very sensible for a facility meant to be catering primarily for ill people, eh?.

Chris Veasey ● 6924d

Where did the Mattock Lane Pharmacy get its business from before the Mattock Lane surgery existed? -  I've been stuck here long enough to have been a patient at the previous surgery in St Leonards Rd/Gordon Rd (the building there having only just recently been demolished for redevelopment BTW).You know the trade better than any of us, but I'd suspect the prescription and related biz from the surgery is just icing on the cake rather than core turnover, so not necesarily an incentive to make a costly and disruptive  move to more expensive main road frontage premises amnd risk losing more local custom than would gain.

Chris Veasey ● 6924d

Part of the planning permission includes a replacement department store with integral coffee shop and restaurant on the ground and mezzanine levels (also presume part lower ground floor).Lets hope this is honoured as it would certainly be detrimental to West Ealing to lose a key shop of the type supposedly much in demand for "Arcadia" to non-retail use.Furthermore the restaurant was a good community facility, upmarket from the fastfood shops. Daniels also had a niche market with quality prams, cots and nursery equipment and in-house school uniform suppliers which would be in demand especially with the demise of Mothercare.

Robert Darke ● 6911d

Irrespective of location, does anyone know if the rumoured "supersurgery" or "polyclinic" is being put in place in order to sweep away our family doctors or is it a genuine move to extend primary care by taking components away from Ealing Hospital?

Robert Darke ● 6900d

When the original planning application was made, local residents were concerned because the site is adjacent to residential properties and the service access is at the back.  We wanted to prevent the sort of disruption that night-time deliveries and the like would have caused.  And we were concerned that breaking the site up into multiple retail units or used as a supermarket would increase the deliveries.  Given the very limited customer parking available on site would also have made these ideas a bad thing.We clubbed together to hire a planning consultant to fight the more objectionable aspects of the development.  A fundamental requirement of final approval was that the retail facilities on the site were restricted to a single departmental store.  Daniel claimed throughout the public process that they WOULD move back in, which made the plan acceptable to the planning committee – but private discussions with members of the Daniel family led us to believe that this was a smokescreen.  As it proved to be!Now the important thing is to ensure that the site is used either for a retail operation in line with the approved use (which might be nice – but there is no sign of any companies queuing up to open a new departmental store), or something else which contributes positively to West Ealing.

Robin Hall ● 6898d

Robin, If the supersurgery rumour is true, there will be no disruption from night-time retail deliveries - and I expect it would be considered a positive contribution to West Ealing (except for the multitude of cold/flu germs in the Winter).  I guess the local residents will be happy they got most of what they wanted.  Shame about Daniels, though, the only haberdashery in West London that I know of – haven’t found any in Chiswick or Richmond.

S. D. Brock ● 6898d

Agree about the haberdashery store.  But are they going to close Daniels completely ?

Pat Kingham ● 6898d

If, as seems very very likely, Daniel doesn't move back into the new store site, I can't imaginge that the temporary store on the corner of Hartington Road will survive very long.

Robin Hall ● 6898d

It will be a bitter pill for West Ealing to lose such a traditional store if W.J.Daniel are unable to continue."Walter Daniel the founder of W.J.Daniel rented his first shop in Ealing in 1901 selling drapery and fashions with his family living above the shop".(Daniels have the largest store in Windsor in a prime position).

Robert Darke ● 6895d

Agree about the possibility of Daniels closing down - we'd be sad if it stops operating. Our family have used Daniels for decades. They always had a good cycle dept and a very good pram and baby cots and  childrens' clothes selection. Also, they had a very comprhensive toy department. I know their restaurant was rather old fashioned, but they didn't half serve a great(historic!) steak and kidney pie and really good treacle sponge pudding. Nice cakes at tea time too. Sad to see it go.  :-(

Gerry Tan ● 6894d

Yes, it would be sad, especially since we no longer have Beales, either. I hadn't realised that Daniels were no longer moving into the new building. That's not definite yet though, is it?

Chris Moxey ● 6894d

Irrespective of what useful things Daniel used to sell and the quality of their traditional cafe, there seems to be very little chance that we will see them again on this site.  The challenge now is to get a suitable use for the site which benefits the community as a good retailing operation or something else positive.

Robin Hall ● 6892d

Surprising that Daniels having developed their site aren`t able to honour their commitment to reopening a department store rent free! Perhaps there`s a milch cow in sight?Ealing NHS Primary Health Care Trust have quite a task on their hands fundamentally improving hygiene at Ealing Hospital, having come bottom in a patient study by the Healthcare Commission and would be better advised keeping  smaller facilities dispersed throughout the borough.

Robert Darke ● 6688d