Forum Topic

Council Communications Costs

Without knowing what campaigns or services etc the Councils are promoting during different years these figures are just figures and pretty meaningless especially when you think of the campaign that LBE has just had regarding rubbish and cleaner streets.It is interesting that the LBE has not used Neighbourhood Net for any advertising though.  When I questioned why Hounslow's Schedule of Rubbish collections was on the Hounslow site and Ealing's wasn't some time ago that was the reply I got.  I suppose they feel they don't need to but I think they should consider it.Many years ago LBE had no noticeboards but Hounslow did - used for LBH posters re not putting rubbish out too early, who local councillors are, and other Hounslow stuff.  I pointed this out to LBE and suggested they get noticeboards too.  They did.  This space until  recently seems to have mostly been used to bring in advertising revenue.  It is easy to report on this to Committee.  It is much more difficult to quantify the amount of money that could have been saved had the information on how where and what to do with rubbish & recycling been made more easily available.  The poster advertising the all-in-one day collection is still on the board outside the park.  This could have been changed to the Christmas Collections Schedule + Real Christmas Tree Recycling Dates and Places and other info on reducing waste over the Christmas period.If the Council were to maintain these static and accessible info points for those without the internet I can't really see what they could possibly do more.  They excelled themselves anyway this year in the amount of info they did put out.

Philippa Bond ● 6851d13 Comments

I don't see how you can say the figures are meaningless when they show that a Council like Hammersmith and Fulham spends only a fifth of what Ealing do - a difference of more. No coincidence that they have cut Council Tax by 3% for the second year running. Ealing Council clearly wastes a lot of money on publicity and there is much fat that could be trimmed by from the budget by cutting spending overall and allocating the money more efficiently.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6846d

Cutting a budget does not necessarily save money as it could incur bigger and different costs somewhere else.It has been shown that the most successful refuse & recycling schemes are those with the best preparation and publicity beforehand.  You would not expect that to be the same each year. 

Philippa Bond ● 6846d

"the most successful refuse & recycling schemes are those with the best preparation and publicity beforehand."The evidence on the streets of Acton compared to nearby Shepherd's Bush is that despite a much lower spend on publicity overall Hammersmith and Fulham (which covers Shepherd's Bush) have managed to inform locals more effectively. In Ealing Borough recycling boxes and bin bags were scattered around the streets showing that residents didn't have a clue when collections were due.I can't recall one piece of Council publicity last year apart from Around Ealing. £3mn seems to me a lot to spend for such a minimal impact. Is the effectiveness of the spending assessed in any way?

Andy Jones ● 6842d

Isn't Hammersmith & Fulham's latest initiative the Compulsory Recycling one?  Council officials are visiting everyone who isn't recycling! They are fined if they don't.  That gets a response but you can't do it without the infrastructure there in the first place.  The single day collection has been the biggest change in Ealing for years. It has had the best publicity I have ever seen from the Council.The consultation was there to get people involved and following that there were letters and brochures showing the collection areas and bring banks and recycling centres etc. There were large posters on the Council notice boards which are still there (or were just after Christmas) and there have been banners hanging from the lamp posts in the high streets. The progress has been documented in Around Ealing. The Council website is being constantly updated and the website address is on the posters/banners etc enabling thos with internet access - a great number of people now - to find out information for themselves. As for changes over Christmas: Our street which had an early collection (it was due to be Christmas Day) had Around Ealing and cards delivered to the houses showing the changes. Only a couple of houses got it wrong.  People have to learn to take responsibility for their rubbish just as they should for their health ....  but the information needs to be available.  It has been more available than ever this year but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved.  The Council must have a post mortem on it.It is very important that the new system works and now is the time to get it working - so if your rubbish and recycling isn't collected you MUST report it to the Council - otherwise they will think that everything is hunky-dory. If you want change you have to get out and do something about it.It isn't easy to change habits especially when someone else wants you to - to suit their timetable.  This change is worth it.  The streets are so much better already for a great many people. It has had a great impact here.My original point was that listing figures without any clarification doesn't say very much at all - just that some boroughs spend more than others.

Philippa Bond ● 6842d

When the quantum of the figures is so different - £650,000 or so for Hammersmith and nearly £3,000,000 for Ealing I think there is a risk of losing site of the obvious by claiming that the numbers need clarification. There may be particular reasons why some Councils have to pay more on publicity than others but by a quantum of five? Obviously not. This is much more likely to be indicative of a tendency that appears to be common in local Government to put something in a budget because it was there last year regardless of whether or not it is a good use of public money.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6841d

It is worth answering this question.  First thing to remember is that Hammersmith and Fulham is half the size of Ealing so many of its costs will be correspondingly lower.  Second Ealing publicity spending actually went down slightly from last year.  Not a lot, but in the right direction.  From £3.065 million in 2005/6 to £2.979 million in 2006/7.  Although the publicity numbers are useful, a result of a Tory Local Government act, they need to be handled with care.  For instance they include recruitment advertising.  Ealing spent £801K on this last year.  You might argue about the size of the bill, again down on the previous year, but it is a necessary evil if the council is to recruit the right people.  Finally the numbers don't account for income.  They only count expenditure.  Around Ealing has been very successful at pulling in advertising income.  £235K in 2006/7 and on target for £270K this year.

Phil Taylor ● 6841d

Phillippa: speaking from the forgotten area of Elthorne Avenue, we received no cards from the council about the Christmas collection changes, only the magazine. Only 30 - 40% of the houses on the Avenue read the back page and as you saw, many areas of the pavement were covered in black bags for a week and a half.!Why don’t people read this magazine?But there is more!Come along our road today and look at the food and recycling boxes on our pavement. The collecting ser vices failed to pick all these up on Monday!Does our Avenue exist? Am I living in an invisible street?

Robert Worley ● 6840d

Thanks Phil that's very interesting. The job ad bill is a shocker although a friend of mine (who admittedly works for a rival paper) says that a job ad in the Guardian can cost up to £10,000 and that traditionally this has been seen as a way of cross subsidising a newspaper sympathetic to the public sector. Hopefully this doesn't go on in Ealing.Is the ad spend in Around Ealing mainly Council bodies and related entities. I can't recall seeing many ads in the mag from private companies.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6840d

First five reasons!1  People don't read much any more anyway (even if they can )2  Any news gained is much more global from disparate and global sources which don't take account of local detail3  They get too much unsolicited and unstopped junk mail as well as their personal post and paperwork4  There is a culture of Me Me Me More More More.  5  We work long hours in Britain and with both parents working home management too often just becomes crisis management The Council can fine for waste being put out too early etc but until rubbish is NOT collected AND bags in the street (they should be on everybody's own property) are stickered and letters sent to draw attention to the problem and penalties - many will not even think to put it on their agenda.As the amount of waste has increased the situation has worsened.LBE has a contract with ECT for the collection of waste and recycling. They are responsible for making sure the information is there about what they provide. Thre is a good system set up. We are responsible for letting them know when it isn't working. Now is the time with the change to single day collection to make sure that we get it working well.  It is very important to give the Council feedback.Please tell me that you have logged a complaint with the Council at customers@ealing.gov.uk about the lack of warning about the early Christmas collection and the lack of recycling collection this week.  The card was just one of several methods the Council used or intended to be used. The system worked here except for a couple of houses. I printed the info off the website and put it through the door. I think we should ask for posters of bank holiday changes to go on Council notice boards (eg the one by the zebra outside Elthorne Park) as well as at busy holiday times it is good to have a static reminder if you do not have ready access to the internet. If people spoke to their neighbours they might also find out and it would be an excuse for an introduction.  However if you don't get home from work before 9pm neither you or your neighbour is likely to fancy this scenario!

Philippa Bond ● 6840d

It is somewhat ironic that the Council generates tons of paper to try and promote recycling yet does not use the network of local web sites in the area.

Andy Jones ● 6839d

Philippa Bond ● 6838d

Philippa, the problem is that people don't tend to do what the authorities think they 'should'. Some may well spend their leisure hours browsing the Council web site but most of us don't.The local paper should be the primary channel of communication with residents. I know the circulation is not great but it is a chicken and egg situation. If the Council continues to pull advertising the content of the paper continues to get worse and fewer people read it. It is also preposterous that the Council are spending millions on publicity yet not one penny with a popular, local, community based media. I can see the argument why these sites couldn't become a major channel for Council communication but for certain types of publicity requirements e.g. bin collection change dates it would be invaluable. It should certainly be used for very targetted local publicity needs. Recently in Acton there has been a new CPZ implemented in a very cack-handed manner with many residents complaining that they were never consulted. Use of the ActonW3.com site would have made a difference and saved both the Council and residents a lot of trouble.

Andy Jones ● 6832d

I think that the advertising has to be spread more.  Targets  are not always helpful as they can cause imbalance in particular areas.  It is difficult to measure how well you are succeeding (a lot of info is deliberately ignored) and probably easier to know how well you aren't (when people actually get around to complaining).I agree that most people don't spend or want to spend their leisure hours browsing the Council website but it is important that the information is there and up to date. For those who do have home internet access this information is available 24/7.  Other media can be used to draw people there to find out more from it.  If you don't happen to have it at home it is easy to think you will use it in the office to find out something  ...only to realise that you have come to the end of yet another busy working week and failed to do so. The same happens with making telephone calls.  I would like to see some of the brilliant publicity posters that have been in Around Ealing used in different places eg on noticeboards around the borough.  For instance there is a display board on the side of the recycling bank outside TVU which remains empty.  This could have been used for Christmas Refuse & Recycling/Christmas Tree Recycling info and can still be used to say where to take the things that those banks don't take ...and where to find out more info eg the website and by telephone.A lot of people don't and won't buy a local paper.  Estate Agents' advertising takes up most of all the local papers.  Personally this is something I don't want to browse in my leisure time unless I am thinking of moving. If I am curious enough about the prices I will go to more trouble then flicking through the ads to find out more. No doubt Estate Agents and the papers who rely on this advertising feel differently.It was disappointing to see that when the Gazette did do something about wheelie bins and rubbish and recycling more recently it was incorrect and resulted in a letter from Jason Stacey. Polly Manser did a brilliantly constructive series of articles some years back (even if we didn't always agree with one another).With regard to the CPZ:  It takes a long time from consultation to implementation and I think that this was a big part of the problem.  The Agenda for the Area Committee has often been on the Acton site.  It was very disappointing that the Council website was not up to date on this.  The Council can neither make people read what is put through their letterboxes (which is the expensive publicity that most people would call for in these cases):  It is up to them themselves to make sure that they do this and to make it easier for themselves to sort out and see what is important.  Help in avoiding junk mail is on the website.  Nor can they make neighbours speak to each other.  It takes two to tango.

Philippa Bond ● 6831d