Forum Topic

Bus Stops

HalloDoes anyone know how many bus stops there are in the London Borough of Ealing, or alternatively, where I might obtain bus stop data? I tried the TfL website but no luck.ThanksAngus

Angus Peterson ● 6739d36 Comments

Sounds like a great question for a quiz decider but cannot think what else it could be used for.  Maybe the Council should know as somewhere there is a permission process but this could have been delegated back to TfLYour best bet is to contact real people in phone or person at TfL and make connection with their Bus Stops Unit - yes there is one.

Colin Izzard ● 6739d

Thanks Colin. I'll try the Bus Stops Unit and if they are not forthcoming I'll make a request under the Freedom of Information Act. What could they have to hide? I take your point about quiz deciders, but this sort of data should really be in the public domain.By the way, I was googling just now and discovered there are 19,000 bus stops in London! This is frankly preposterous.

Angus Peterson ● 6739d

19 000 bus stops in London! Preposterous! I agree.That's approximately 1 bus stop for every 500 Londoners, AND some of those stops are request stops. There are more hospital beds available in London - 26 500 - and there are vastly more healthy Londoners than sick.

Alan Brainsby ● 6739d

"I'll try the Bus Stops Unit and if they are not forthcoming I'll make a request under the Freedom of Information Act."... which would waste time and money that could be better spent on running the buses.  Or is there a genuine reason for going to these lengths?  Why do you need the information?

Richard Jennings ● 6739d

Not everything that can be counted counts. Nor should it be counted merely to keep some public sector bum on a seat at my expense.

Graham Weeks ● 6738d

Why is 19,000 a presposterous number?  What would a sensible number of bus stops be?  (genuine question)

Tom Henderson ● 6738d

RichardOn reflection, I would not wish to place an additional burden on a public official (at the taxpayers' expense) by requesting the bus stop data under the Freedom of Information Act. I will therefore count the bus stops myself in my spare time - unless there are any friendly Ealing Todayers willing to assist me in my quest?Angus

Angus Peterson ● 6737d

Angus, I may be missing something here but please could you confirm the reason why you want to count the number of bus stops

James de Vivenot ● 6737d

Angus, if you do complete this monumental(?) task let us know and we will put you forward an IgNobel prize.Of course this research may be of considerable value as there may be higher incidences of certain diseases if one lives close to a bus stop, or more coins found on the pavement. BTW would you differentiate between compulsory and request, those stops with shelters, those stops with shelters and countdown, stops with timetable illumination facilities, concrete post, metal posts, etc?

Alan Brainsby ● 6737d

JamesI would have thought the reason was obvious!Thank you Alan for your kind words, which have boosted my motivation levels - I realise this is a mammoth task, but constantly remind myself that this is for the wider public good.I will incorporate your suggestions into my project plan and forward this to the Ealing Gazette plus a press release forthwith.

Angus Peterson ● 6737d

Your motive for this study certainly isn't obvious to me.Are you suggesting that there should be more bus stops to encourage people to use public transport, or do you think there are too many bus stops? If so, what's the problem with having too many bus stops?Surely a more important issue is the distribution of the bus stops, rather than their number.

James de Vivenot ● 6737d

JamesOK, I'll be honest - what I am concerned about is the constant stop-start-stop-start experience caused by the preposterous number of bus stops in Ealing, which impairs my enjoyment of my Lexus LS. And on the rare occasion when I travel by bus, my experience is again blighted by - you've guessed it - the constant stop-start-stop-start caused by frequent bus stops. The 607 route is slightly better in this respect I must admit. My study will establish the optimum number of bus stops in Ealing concomitant with optimum traffic flow.

Angus Peterson ● 6737d

Thanks for clarifying, Angus!

James de Vivenot ● 6737d

Angus:       A potentially simpler solution to your problem would be to identify those roads along which buses travel, whether there are bus stops or, worse, hail-to-stop.These roads could then be highlighted on a paper map of the borough and so avoided where possible.After a few months of testing this map could then be published, possibly at great profit to yourself, especially if a sat-nav company picks it up.If successful the scheme could be extended to Hounslow, Hillingdon..., the world!

Alan Brainsby ● 6737d

More thoughts.I assume bus stops are subject to some form of planning regulations. Perhaps a trawl through the last 100 years or so planning documents at the town hall might be useful. It's possible that those stops on Crown property, hospitals, prisons, etc might be excluded, as might be those on trunk roads.Another thing to do, also on a wet day, would be to study wikimapia, google earth, or suchlike and look for the road markings "bus stop". With wikimapia you could annotate each stop, possibly with its route numbers, name or code letter, or at least "Angus wuz here!" so you wouldn't double count it.Would you include bus stand posts where passengers neither board or alight?

Alan Brainsby ● 6737d

All ingenious suggestions Alan, many thanks. I will examine these options as part of a broader cost-benefit analysis before embarking on the project.Once all bus stops have been plotted, the next step might well involve conducting a bus stop usage survey. Perhaps this could be carried out remotely using Google Earth, by mounting web cams at every bus stop or by adapting my satnav system? Any bus stop that attracted less than, say, 1000 users per hour would be compulsorily uprooted (along with otiose bus stand posts), with any monies generated as a result of selling these for scrap being put towards filling the numerous potholes which damage my Lexus’s suspension. These initiatives would also create much-need jobs in the borough. By the way, I am not running for election on 1 May, so this is not a pitch for votes.

Angus Peterson ● 6737d

Angus:      Do you use your Lexus as a taxi by any chance? :-)No doubt, if you do manage to enumerate all the bus stops in Ealing some wag will suggest that if they were laid end to end they'd circle Haven Green once or twice!

Alan Brainsby ● 6737d

I think, based on the sampling of three local maps, there are 666 bus stops in the London Borough of Ealing, which may or may not mean something sinister.

Peter Wright ● 6737d

One pair of bus-stops which can instantly be yanked out are halfway up the allotment stretch of Northfield Avenue. Whatever possessed Tfl to install those in a narrow stretch of Northfield Avenue when the local population have accepted this to be a clear stretch for traffic - most of all the buses - for over a hundred years!

Robert Darke ● 6737d

I am amazed at the selfish attitude of those contributing to this thread. Our buses are used predominantly by the elderly, who may well have difficulty walking, by mothers with small children and buggies, and people carrying heavy shopping. Why should they have to struggle further to the nearest bus stop just so that drivers sitting in the comfort of their cars can save a few minutes.

Helen Johnson ● 6737d

Angus,Perhaps the next phase of your project can be to whittle down the number of pedestrian crossings in Ealing, which no doubt impair your enjoyment of your Lexus LS just as much as those pesky bus stops!

James de Vivenot ● 6737d

I am not playing devil's advocate here, although I do think that this 666 business is highly significant in the context of Ealing bus stops.Don't get me wrong - I am not saying 'ban bus stops' per se; I am saying let's have a reasoned, rational debate, which I think the posts on this thread so far contribute to.

Angus Peterson ● 6737d

Great idea James. The phenomena you mention are too numerous, downright dangerous and impair the Lexus LS experience. I propose a series of skyways around the Borough of Ealing. This network would protect the good citizens of Ealing (e.g. contributers to this forum) from the inclement weather and improve safety for all.

Angus Peterson ● 6737d

If many of the bus routes, eg 607/427/207, E2, E3, E8 were converted to tramways the problem of bus stops would be reduced...BTW there is a bus stand in Courtfield Gardens W13, not on a bus route, but I've never seen it used by a bus.

Alan Brainsby ● 6737d

Back in the 1960s I had (at Ealing Tech as was) to write an essay on solving the London traffic problem as it was perceived then.I thought short and soft and came up with a slightly radical solution that I suspect Angus might approve.The basic concept was that any area not covered by buildings had (by law) to be concreted over,for instance nobody could have a garden,there would be no parks etc.The idea being that if you (as a driver) came up against any impediment to your forward progress, you could pull into what used to be a garden,drive down the side of the house and thence onto the next available road....simple!To compensate the ex garden owners for the admitedly slightly boring scenery,coloured posts similar to maypoles would be erected every couple of miles, so that on sundays before 11am they could take their families out and wonder at the colours and shapes.Pedestrians were catered for as well,they could go out between 2am and 5am,the only proviso being that they had to jog (we called it running slowly then),the thinking behind this was that as they jog ,they breath heavier and in so doing they actually filter (in their alvioli) all of the previous days pollutants from the air thus making the world a nicer place for drivers.Two extra Chest hospitals would be built,containing 3 beds each to cater for the acceptable increase in matters bronchial.My tutor liked the idea,and awarded me a 10 shilling book token.

Tony Wood ● 6737d

Tony, that's a good use of road space - separating users from each other by time rather than physical barriers and road markings.

Alan Brainsby ● 6737d

Regarding the removal of supernumerary bus stops consider it from the perspective the bus passenger. Stopping frequently makes the journey longer. I regularly use the bus from Ealing Broadway to my home. I live very near the fourth stop out. I have no need of the three intervening stops. Often the bus stops at these places to allow passengers to board or alight. This adds to my journey time, perhaps taking it from four minutes to six, and, due to the quality of driving, my discomfort.Curiously in the reverse direction, home stop to Ealing Broadway there are only intervening two stops.So that's five stops that could be removed.

Alan Brainsby ● 6737d

"One pair of bus-stops which can instantly be yanked out are halfway up the allotment stretch of Northfield Avenue."Why are these a problem?  If there was no demand for them, buses wouldn't stop there.  If, as I have seen, buses do stop there, it proves there is a need for them.  People going to and from their allotments presumably.  You get the odd cabbage leaf left in the bus of course, but let this not stand in the way of progress!

Richard Jennings ● 6737d

Good grief - is this thread serious?  I thought it was a joke.

Jane Salisbury ● 6736d

Yes Alan, the tutor thought so too! Sadly it's becoming a reality,there's not much space left now.If as I expect CPZs continue to expand (it's revenue after all),I can foresee the time when people are only allowed to drive round the block or to the local supermarket car park then park back in their own street.  As a basis I used (and continue to today) the schoolboy version of your old school motto Pau Latim Ergo Certe ;0),not that I went there,my brother did though.  I remember on the last day of junior school in 1957 you told me that you were off there,thinking about it I can also remember that we were standing, in the archway between the infants and juniors.  I hope that's freed up some memory space,I've been carrying that around for 51 years,just knowing I would find an opportunity to use it one day. Cheers!

Tony Wood ● 6736d

Does one have to fold one's wheelbarrow before boarding, I wonder?

Alan Brainsby ● 6736d

God, was it 50 plus years ago! Tempus fugit!It certainly took a long time to get a zebra crossing anywhere near the school.

Alan Brainsby ● 6736d

Interesting watching this thread develop. Some observations.Despite some unit of Ealing Council wanting to remove or restrict some bus lanes they have a great usage in keeping buses moving and separate from cars which include Lexus.  Still with one of these supercars in an attempt to avoid the forthcoming premium congestion charge you would have to amuse yourself driving around Ealing as points east will be chargeable. Do you ever escape London onto roads where you appreciate the Lexus features?Did you think about the comment 1000 users per hour?  The most frequent routes in the borough are E3 and E2 at about every 6 minutes or 10 buses per hour.  If we had that many users you would need super trams every minute to cope.Does  a bus stop need to have a minimum quota for passengers. If you held back on Northfields Avenue you would see that stop mentioned is actually frequently used -because of the traffic queues up to Uxbridge Road caused by too many cars, people get off and walk forward faster or use the nearby flatsMy first thought when you wanted to count bus stops was that you were planning some hideous advertising campaign.In times past at nearby Shepherds Bush, buses would stop on all three sides of the Green and passengers would catch a bus to go from one side to other. The next stretch of Uxbridge Road had/had very close bus stops.Food for thought?

Colin Izzard ● 6736d

The insertion of the allotment stops has weakened the "Foresters" stops and spoilt what was to me a perfectly spaced 55 now E3 route, visualising as I can all the stops from Acton to Greenford, and has served the public well, in all the categories described by Helen, for many years. (Can`t say the same for the 97 now E2 with historically fictional frequency)Where there is a ten minute tail-back of traffic at the Lido lights its commonsense for drivers to allow polite passengers to leave the bus at any point, not requiring stops.Does anyone know if there`s a bus-stop collectors club?

Robert Darke ● 6713d

Collecting bus stops! A sure-fire way of annoying your other half!I'm not sure whether there's a bus-stop collectors' club, but there are a number of bus stops for sale on ebay. For example:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RED-BUS-STOP-SIGN-VERY-OLD_W0QQitemZ170218729342QQihZ007QQcategoryZ96849QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Angus Peterson ● 6712d

Anorak anyone?

Keith Iddon ● 6711d