Forum Topic

Ealing teachers' strike

I don’t know how I stand on the teachers’ strike, ‘cos I know little about the profession. So I ask these questions:What %age of Ealing schools are out on strike today?What salary does a newly qualified graduate teacher command?What salary does an experienced teacher command?Do experienced teachers of say Maths or Science get the same salaries as say teachers of Art or PT?What is a head teacher’s salary? Do all teachers get a final-salary pension and at what age do they retire?How does an experienced teacher’s salary compare with say an experienced nurse?How many days holiday do teachers enjoy?That’s enough FTTB. Except to ask if there are any teachers on this excellent forum?  If so, do put me straight on my queries.  Thanks.  :-(

Gerry Tan ● 6734d15 Comments

Gerry,You can look at the NUTer's website for details of the MPS (Main Pay Spine) & UPS (Upper Pay Spine)Most newly qualify teachers (NQT) get at least £20k plus any London allowances.Teachers get additional "responsibility"/"management" points on top and whatever they can get from the Headteacher on appointment.There is also AST (Advance Skill Teacher) Pay Spine starting at £34k.managment are on Leadership Pay Spine starting from £35k to £100k+.No sure about retairing age and limits, as I am nowhere near there yet.We get about 13 weeks so call holidays, but effectly we work throught most of them and we don't get any "overtime" payments.

Stephen Farmer ● 6734d

"There is also AST (Advance Skill Teacher) Pay Spine starting at £34k.MANAGMENT are on Leadership Pay Spine starting from £35k to £100k+.No sure about RETAIRING age and limits, as I am nowhere near there yet.We get about 13 weeks so call holidays, but EFFECTLY we work THROUGHT most of them and we don't get any "overtime" payments."Jamie, which subject do you teach? I hope it isn't English!

James de Vivenot ● 6734d

Good questions Gerry. What's been overlooked by the BBC (who have mostly focused on the %age pay rise) is that teachers now start on more than the average wage for the whole country.To answer some of your questions:Q:What salary does a newly qualified graduate teacher command?A: Around £24,500 in London.Q: What salary does an experienced teacher command?A: £34K on average. They are national pay scales though - and £34K goes a very very long way outside of London where the average wage is more likely to be half that amount.Q: Do experienced teachers of say Maths or Science get the same salaries as say teachers of Art or PT?A: They are paid more and also get bursaries for studying these subject.Q:What is a head teacher’s salary?A: Up to £200K for the new 'super teacher' grades.Q: Do all teachers get a final-salary pension and at what age do they retire?A: Yes - and 65 I think.Q: How does an experienced teacher’s salary compare with say an experienced nurse?A: At c£34K teacher's on average earn more than nurses. That said, teachers can enrol on teacher training courses than nurses and also take a lot more sick leave.Q: How many days holiday do teachers enjoy?A: I'm not sure, but I'd estimate somewhere around 60. My friends who teach all seem to buzz off for 5-6 week breaks in the summer and they sure aren't taking lesson plans or marking with them.My conclusion is that teachers get too much holiday given their training days take place in term time. They have high levels of sickness absence, earn more than the parents of the children they teach yet still think they get a raw deal. Many of my friends who teach don't claim to work especially hard - and those that do... well you just have to wonder if they are disorganised given that their peers don't seem to put long hours in.The other massive benefit that teachers enjoy is working similar times to their children if they have them. That means they save huge amounts on childcare costs in the holidays unlike other people who work.

Ed Yelland ● 6734d

Jamie's reply tells you everything you need to know about why we shouldn't have national pay scales that all pay all Teachers the same irrespective of their competency / performance.

Ed Yelland ● 6734d

Sorry James my olde booty,But I was brought up with PC age and tend to use my PC a lot due to my disability (Dyslexic) and I teach ICT at a local school.Most of my friends do a lot of homework markings and lesson planning during their "spare" time and holidays.I am using today to catch up my "paperwork". I have at least 5 SEN students in each of my 10 classes that I teach every week and with that I have plan my lessons to accomodate them as well as the bright students and others. And the usual "paperworks" that comes with the job.I spend an average of 70 hours a week for work one way or another.

Stephen Farmer ● 6734d

Sorry James my olde booty,But I was brought up with PC age and tend to use my PC a lot due to my disability (Dyslexic) and I teach ICT at a local school.Most of my friends do a lot of homework markings and lesson planning during their "spare" time and holidays.I am using today to catch up my "paperwork". I have at least 5 SEN students in each of my 10 classes that I teach every week and with that I have plan my lessons to accomodate them as well as the bright students and others. And the usual "paperworks" that comes with the job.I spend an average of 70 hours a week for work one way or another.

Stephen Farmer ● 6734d

"I spend an average of 70 hours a week for work one way or another."Sorry, but I don't believe you. Even if you do 12 hours of work a day (excluding breaks), that still leaves 10+ hours of work at the weekend. I've yet to meet anyone in the public sector who actually does anywhere near the long hours they claim to do. In most cases when you take into account sick leave, arriving late, leaving early etc many public sector workers (including Teachers) don't even work their minimum contracted hours.

Ed Yelland ● 6734d

If you have to mark 290 students' homework and plan for their lessons as well. Bearing in mind that I have 20 sixth formers' work yo mark, which are not just striaght yes or no type answers or coursework.  My school has a number very weak students which I have plan "specially" for their abilities for each lesson.It all adds up.

Jim Wong ● 6734d

Jamie,log off my login first and re-login.

Jim Wong ● 6734d

Sorry Jim,If you have to mark 290 students' homework and plan for their lessons as well. Bearing in mind that I have 20 sixth formers' work yo mark, which are not just striaght yes or no type answers or coursework.  My school has a number very weak students which I have plan "specially" for their abilities for each lesson.It all adds up.

Stephen Farmer ● 6734d

What is also not commonly realised is the huge amount of support staff now in schools so that many teachers have "non-teaching" time for preparation in the junior schools with extra teachers employed to cover non-teaching time.The staff used to consist of a headmaster or headmistress, teachers, nursery nurse, secretary and caretaker. If a teacher was ill another would take two classes single handed in the 1950`s with sixty children, almost unthinkable today!

Robert Darke ● 6733d

They could only teach so many children because we all sat in rows facing the blackboard doing the same work at the same time. This idea they all have now of breaking up the classroom into smaller units and tables doesn't allow large classes. I understand all the thinking behind this but it doesn't seem to lead to greater levels of literacy or numeracy ....... quite the reverse.It does seem to lead to greater expressions of individualism.

Penny Crocker ● 6733d

The two teachers I know best - husband and next door neighbour - are ridiculously commited to their professions and schools, spend far too long there and work daft hours... maybe because they are also management. They both work during the holidays and at weekends because there is work to be done - never for overtime. Neither of them is overpaid. Husband isn't NUT and would never strike anyhow, neighbour is and did but it would be difficult to condemn him for being peeved after over thirty years teaching.Don't slag all/most/many teachers off as being lazy and, over-holidayed and over-paid. They are not.

Sara Nathan ● 6733d

I agree Sara. My daughter is in her 3rd and final year of teacher training and she has already noticed vast differences in both individual teachers and in the ethos of different schools. The school she is working in at the moment is a Catholic Inner City and the teachers are invariably hungover and demoralised. Last year she was working in Weybridge and the teachers were hardworking,inspitartional and dedicated. She knows where she wants to be naturally. Getting a teaching degree is certainly no easy option. I've seen just how hardmy daughter has worked compared to her friends who are doing other degrees.

Penny Crocker ● 6733d

Teachers' pay appears to be quite modest - at least compared to young professional footballers and some(most) City jobs. One young graduate we know landed herself a good financial job a few years ago in the City and with her last two annual bonuses managed to have a groundfloor extension built plus a garden revamp and last year funded a two bed en suite loft in her roof! Not many teachers can do that! I think teachers should get more - they have very responsible jobs IMO.

Gerry Tan ● 6731d