Forum Topic

Primary Care Trust wages war on smokers with new confrontation tactics

Yes your are so right in doing this, because this is the biggest problem the Ealing council has at the moment.There is no youth crime, the is no drug dealing, there are no dog attacks, there is no drinking on the street with broken glass everywhere!Spend your money on useless things and all the criminals will laugh in your face. It would be better to spend the money for somebody who will answer the phone for the neighborhood watch team all the time, so we don't have to leave messages if we see a crime.Think about that...

Marija Kosanovic ● 6585d23 Comments

And, if we restrict ourselves to Ealing PCT's direct responsibilities, is this the best use of £75,000? Can't wait for one of the New Fascists to pipe up and explain to me that it is all for my own good...

Nicholas Cullum ● 6585d

Your absolutely right of course Marija. The priorities are wrong here, but like many things these days the soft option is the easiest.Maybe if you posted this on W4 you might get a lot more hits, as they seem to have much time on there hands lately.I guess it might be something to do with the Finacial meltdown!

Colin Vaughan ● 6585d

It would be better to have money to spend on everything but there isn't.  From the Primary Care Trust's point of view and many others prevention is better than just cure.Personally I would like to see more money spent on drugs for dementia and other illnesses where they are limited. I would like to see money spent on making sure that the elderly in hospital are fed properly.Smoking costs smokers a lot of money and also costs non-smokers a lot of money. Money that could be very well spent elsewhere. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/background_briefings/smoking/86599.stm

Philippa Bond ● 6584d

I don't understand your drift. The link you provided (1998) shows that smokers contribute via taxes about 8 times what they cost, even ignoring that their lifetime cost is lower! So, non-smokers actually receive a financial benefit, and quite a large one: not any cost at all.All of which is pretty much off the point, which is that the anti-smoking brigade are on a crusade which exemplifies the worst aspects of political correctness and the new fascism. The prevention argument has little credibility given the way this is being/has been handled. I don't take kindly to some PC twit spending my tax dollar foolishly because they have decided it is good for me!

Nicholas Cullum ● 6584d

Is there any direct link between the tax on cigarettes and the amount of money allocated to health services?  Isn't it just a tax/income that is rather difficult to give up - just as smoking is?  There are many articles on how smokers have more complications during and after surgery and end up staying in hospital longer which of course can lead to even more problems. You may not get the chance to give up before surgery.  I can quite easily see why a PCT would want to run campaigns to show you why smoking is not a good idea.How many people think that they will never get hooked on it? How many are in denial that they are? The horrific pictures and large warning signs on the packets obviously aren't confrontational enough to get the message across - so what would be?

Philippa Bond ● 6584d

"confrontational"That's the point. Why are the PC anti-smoking brigade so hell-bent on enforcing their point of view, particularly when we have strong evidence that tells us that the wrong way to convince anyone of anything is confrontation?There is only one effective way to achieve their aim, but it is less attractive to the smug self-righteous personalities who infest such interest groups.As usual, it is slow and painstaking and starts with the child. Education, education, education (as a recent PM said). I believe the Swedes started this yonks ago and achieved impressive results.In the certain knowledge that the personality-types who infest such campaigns find this deeply unattractive, I shall remain, respectfully, at war!

Nicholas Cullum ● 6584d

It would be interesting to have a similar campaign to confront the weight-challenged individuals but I suppose that might be overwhelming.

Alan Brainsby ● 6584d

Or a campaign to get all our children reading?

Philippa Bond ● 6583d

Absolutely Philippa,we need the graffiti spelt properly!

Nicholas Cullum ● 6583d

I think we need to appreciate that people learn in different ways - that certainly applies to reading - and for a child to be left behind can cause life-long problems not only for that child.With regard to the dangers of smoking - you would think that a teenager who had seen their grandfather and their best friend's mother die from lung cancer and smoking related illness would not smoke - but it is not the case.Too many think they won't get hooked, and too many think that it won't happen to them and are unwilling/unable to think past the here and now especially if it is uncomfortable and they don't want to know. Each person is different.  You can never know when/how you are going to get the message across.If the PCT were doing nothing about this they would be criticized, if their campaign wasn't loud enough and went unnoticed they would be criticized.  Having just come back from a hospital where they are struggling to get people to wash their hands and use gel before and after visiting patients I certainly wouldn't want to stay there any longer than necessary if I was admitted.

Philippa Bond ● 6583d

Dyslexia rules KO!But that's a disorder rather than the result of bad education.Monies spent on evangelizing against smoking would be better spent on cleaning hospitals and other facilities properly: demonstrating that they are clean before some hare-brained initiative is started.I suppose with the economic downturn we will see more of this type of non-job appearing.

Alan Brainsby ● 6583d

Now if everyone was tested to see what their best learning style was it would be interesting.  It would also be interesting to see how it changed over the years because I bet it would do depending on exposure to different media. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses but it is only when there are big discrepancies that it becomes really noticeable.Teach in one style and you will only be engaging part of the class.  Google 'learning styles' and you'll find that there is a lot of info.Talking to someone and showing them how much carbon monoxide is in their body definitely engages their attention.  They can always says "No, thank you" and forego that knowledge!

Philippa Bond ● 6582d

The problem with all this sort of stuff is that it increasingly erodes people's sense of personal responsibility. Every smoker knows the health risks involved in smoking so the idea that some fresh faced kid coming up to you in a shopping centre will make you change the habit of a lifetime is naive in the extreme.Schemes like this are likely to be counter-productive. The real problem with smoking at the moment is the growth in use by the young particularly teenage girls. Preachy government campaigns have once again given fags the aura of rebellion that they used to have.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6579d

I mentioned in an earlier post that Education, Edu... etc was the only long-term solution - other than an outright ban which I am sure would be supported by the sort of person who dreamt this hare-brained scheme up.Sadly, Education is also at the heart of how commercial illiterates come to believe that a scheme such as this has any prospect of effecting any change over and above that of losing all the money spent on it. "Naive" just about sums it up.

Nicholas Cullum ● 6579d

I've watched two smokers slowly die of lung cancer, not pleasant and the son of one still smokes like a chimney.Perhaps it's the thrill of chancing with death, like people who deliberate have unprotected sex with HIV carriers.OK, thats just me being a provocateur, the reality is that it's an addiction, pure and simple, if there were a magic pill that could take away that addiction, the vast majority of smokers would stop. The flaw is that ex-smokers tend to start putting on weight, botheration, now we need another magic pill.

Peter Wright ● 6578d

Isn't that why it is one of the commonest quoted New Year resolutions?What I find dispiriting is that so many people seem to think that everything in life should come with no effort involved... and that includes New Year resolutions (which don't have to be difficult ones). Hearing the excuse "I don't make them because I always break them" makes me cringe.  Great personal satisfaction can be achieved by succeeding in reaching a goal.  Where was this desire to achieve something more lost?

Philippa Bond ● 6577d

The problem is that there is an increasing tendency for the state to feel that it is their duty not just to inform people but to actively intervene in their day to day lives as epitomised by this ridiculous initiative.Nobody in this country is unaware that cigarettes damage your health. Nobody in this country is unaware that fat kids are not a good thing. The increasing problem now is that many see some sort of half baked quango based as the only solution.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6572d

So what will you tell your loved ones when you get back from the doctors?What will your loved one tell other people, "He/She died horribly in the cause of free will"?          Tell them this could be YOU

Peter Wright ● 6572d

It's a pity the same tactics aren't applied to speeding or irresponsible drivers. But I suppose walking out in front of a car which is probably driven by an uninsured driver is probably too much to ask.Perhaps a driver's licence should be checked if he/she requires medical assistance. No licence or points on licence = no assistance or pay for it = free choice.

Alan Brainsby ● 6571d

No need for that now Alan.Number plate ID Cameras have netted hundreds since they were introduced.It has also revealed that number plate theft is on the increase too.

Colin Vaughan ● 6571d

This rather over-emotional response perhaps gives us some demonstration of why the PCT can get away with campaigns like this. When someone makes a dissenting comment they immediately become a friend of cancer.None of my loved ones smoke. If they did they would be told every day by me to give up. I am entirely in favour of the state making sure that everyone is aware of the dangers of smoking which they do by putting clear warnings on packets. My view is that we should leave it at that as preachy interventionism by the state has led to an increase in smoking particularly amongst teenagers who are intelligent enough to make their own decision but will generally do the opposite of what you tell them to do.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6568d

I wonder if there is any correlation between smoking, drug misuse, and obesity?

Alan Brainsby ● 6568d

Part of the problem is that there is an inverse correlation between smoking and obesity so many young girls take up smoking to lose weight. The health risks of being slightly overweight are over stated, in fact research shows that being a bit over what is normally considered the ideal BMI actually increases your life expectancy. But obesity is another area which the army of quangos and Government departments have got their teeth into so expect many more millions to be spent on telling us the blindingly obvious - some of us need to lose a bit of weight.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6565d