Forum Topic

And now for something completely different to...

Alan Brainsby ● 6553d27 Comments

... and as we all know it should be - from.Don't we?I know we've had the odd remarks on good/bad English before but shall we post some howlers before the average IQ of this forum falls too low?

Alan Brainsby ● 6553d

Do you think there is a high correlation between "howlers" and lack of IQ? Could as easily be either poor education or lazy posting.

Sara Nathan ● 6553d

Possibly lack of education rather than IQ. Even some of those unfortunate people of medically known low-intelligence are capable of correct English. So it could be environmental. Maybe those individuals never heard bad English so they don't know anything different.Perhaps IQ scores are based on how good one is at doing IQ tests, let alone reading the questions correctly.I will admit Peter Wright's post in the EB parking fine thread had me howling (with laughter).(...or is it just the physiological deterrent of having the cameras there? What? In case they bumped into one! Classic!That's a malapropism, isn't it? Not a real howler like "debited from".

Alan Brainsby ● 6553d

This has often puzzled me too. When I was at school, we were actually given 'Basic Grammar' lessons,an hour a week which I enjoyed (strange child). These 'rules' stayed with me and I try not to make any howling errors now but get very frustrated when they are made everywhere else. Some people do not seem to be able to 'hear' the difference. Are they just less receptive to language, less intelligent or making a point of not following rules?  Are the same people who are good at foreign languages better at their own? I wonder.......

Penny Crocker ● 6553d

So long as it isn't different than.

Susan Kelly ● 6552d

Different than... US English leaves a lot to be desired. They do tend to speak Old English though - proven, gotten, and so on.BTW Robert. What does the latest incarnation of Fowler's suggest about different?I suppose I should have said that "from" is the preferred form.One may have noticed from my previous posts on any subject that I prefer to use "ize" rather than "ise". There are certain exceptions where the z form is incorrect.Pay attention at the back! I am referring to* "-ise" not "-yse".  * which might beg the question of different from where from means away and to as in referring to means towards...

Alan Brainsby ● 6552d

AlanEvidently you could of brung a more better thread than this to the for. Their are to many posting's on this forum that are lacking in basic principals and which should be more transparent and therefor opaque. Cordially yoursDoug

Doug Witherspoon ● 6552d

Would that be lime cordial? Or something stronger?Brilliant, Doug!

Alan Brainsby ● 6552d

http://wondermark.com/434/

Mark Dudley ● 6552d

"BTW Robert. What does the latest incarnation of Fowler's suggest about different?"You meant me, I assume.  "The commonly expressed view that different should be followed by from and never by to or than is not supportable in the face of past or present evidence or of logic, though the distribution of the constructions is not straightforward."  It goes on to say that there was a marked preference for different from in British English during the 20th Century, and that different than flourished in American English. "In both countries, in all kinds of circumstances, different to has been widely perceived as a credible alternative."(And lots more examples and discussion than I have time to copy out.  This is from The New Fowler's Modern English Usage, Revised 3rd Edition by Robert Burchfield, 1998.)

Richard Jennings ● 6552d

Loved it!There's something for everyone on that site.

Alan Brainsby ● 6552d

Dear AlanThank you for you're recent letter concerning lime cordial. In regard's to this question can I please offer you some advise. The cordial in question is blackcurrant, not lime. This is due to it's more sickly sweet nature - a character I think myself to be.Anyway, I was studying a book in the library the other day about autonomy and physiology - I would not abdicate anything stronger than cordial due to it's affects.Spiritually yoursDoug

Doug Witherspoon ● 6550d

Richard. Humble apologies for calling you Robert. And Robert is different from/to/than Richard! An aberration of an inexplicable kind. Most vexatious.Thank you for examining Fowler's 3rd.Modern English Usage tends to take its data (see below) from printed sources which aren't themselves definitive. I struggle with that.Data.When used in the area of information is it singular or plural noun?I choose to consider it singular, US style, rather than plural, UK style.This partly because I do not think data is the plural of datum. Datum is never used for a single piece of information, is it?Datum refers to a reference point either as a noun - datum - ,or an adjective - datum line.Anyway "these data" sounds clumsy.Comments, anyone?

Alan Brainsby ● 6550d

While we're at it...how often is a 'regular' coffee?

Keith Iddon ● 6550d

I too think that regular is pertains to frequency - a regular heartbeat, bus service, etc.In the maths sense a regular polygon, where all the sides are same length.But a regular guy, fries, coffee? No thanks!

Alan Brainsby ● 6550d

"Modern English Usage tends to take its data ... from printed sources which aren't themselves definitive."That's because there aren't any definitive sources in English.  It's a living language that develops organically.  There is no official authority on the language like the Académie Française for French."Data. When used in the area of information is it singular or plural noun? I choose to consider it singular, US style, rather than plural, UK style."I agree.  My Oxford dictionary (published 2000) says that treating 'data' as a singular noun (or 'mass noun'), while offending some traditionalists, is now regarded as acceptable in standard British English.  MEU3, published two years earlier, says that the singular usage is standard in "computing and allied disciplines".It's a similar shift towards the US usage that occurred with the word "programme", which has been spelt as "program" in the computing sense on both sides of the Atlantic since the mid-1960s.

Richard Jennings ● 6549d

The commercial use of 'regular' to mean average, medium or standard is just one of about 20 meanings and nuances of the word 'regular' in my dictionary.  My gripe is that a 'regular' tea often means huge, and a 'large' tea means ginormous, and they don't serve a normal size at all.

Richard Jennings ● 6549d

What about forums?I know fora is correct but feel a total tit saying "look at the other fora" somewhere like this.Do I have your permission to lapse on this knotty piece of useage?

Sara Nathan ● 6549d

Of course, Sara, so long as you spell yoozidge correctly.

Susan Kelly ● 6548d

Which reminds me that a "Dove" advert was pulled as it advertized "anti-aging" cream but I'm sure none of you ladies are in need of such a product.

Alan Brainsby ● 6548d

Which reminds me that a "Dove" advert was pulled as it advertized "anti-aging" cream but I'm sure none of you ladies are in need of such a product.

Alan Brainsby ● 6548d

"I know fora is correct"How do you "know" that?  Modern English Usage (1965 and 1998) includes 'forum' in a list of words that have "completed their naturalisation" from Latin to English, and "always" have their plural in '-ums'.  My Oxford dictionary (2000) allows 'fora' only when discussing the historical Roman forum.  But the Collins dictionary of 1984 allows either 'forums' or 'fora'.  So you need have no doubts about using 'forums'.

Richard Jennings ● 6548d

And some -um aren't even latin in origin although they might look it.But which ones I don't know.BTW "Program" is conventionally used in English-speaking countries as a sequence of instructions acted on by a computer. "Disk" is used for hard and floppy disks and "disc" for CD and DVD media.

Alan Brainsby ● 6548d

ICL were very slow to change to "program".What did the "National Computing Centre" or whatever use for program and disk?Whatever they used was irrelevant for me as I worked on American machines - IBM, Honeywell, and GE.

Alan Brainsby ● 6548d

"BTW "Program" is conventionally used in English-speaking countries as a sequence of instructions acted on by a computer."Yes, since the mid-1960s, as I said last night.  When I joined Ferranti in 1963 to write them, the company spelt them "programmes".  Seems very quaint nowadays.""Disk" is used for hard and floppy disks and "disc" for CD and DVD media."That's true now in British English, but it's a more recent distinction.  Computer disks were quite widely spelt "disc" in the UK for many years.  I've still got a pack of floppy disks labelled "ICL Flexible Disc".

Richard Jennings ● 6548d

Well, that is a huge weight off my mind.Will suppress all guilt and use "forums" cheerfully and with confidence

Sara Nathan ● 6548d

"ICL were very slow to change to "program"."I don't think ICL (formed in 1968) ever used "programme" in the computer sense.  One of our memories is at fault!Don't know about the NCC. I've got an old British Computer Society Bulletin somewhere - I'll look it out another time - too late now!

Richard Jennings ● 6548d