Forum Topic

Multi-faith Schools

. Multi-faith Schools• A Muslim charity In Swindon is bidding to run the first Multi-faith Muslim School for Muslim and non-Muslim children and have teachers from different faiths. An hour of the timetable each day would be dedicated to studying Arabic and the Holy Quran. Non-Muslims pupils would be able to be exempted from the lessons, but it is hoped that the majority would choose to stay in class to gain more “insight” into the Islamic faith.• In my opinion, Multifaith school is not going to be successful because non-Muslim parents would not send their children. In the past, a plan for a Multi-faith secondary school in Westminster for 1000 pupils could not be materialised because faith groups could not come to any agreement. Now even Hindu community has set up state funded school in Harrow. Black community is also thinking of setting up its own school with Black teachers. • According to David Lammy MP, there are still too many inequalities in the education system which prevents disadvantaged children from applying to study for a degree. British schooling is wholly responsible for the inequalities. A culture of low expectation and a lack of rigour holding these pupils back. Every child must reach his full potential regardless of his background. Justice Secretary Jack Straw MP said British society should be one which recognizes and celebrates differences. One in which we all have an opportunity to flourish, regardless of who we are or where we are from. British schooling has been trying to integrate and assimilate Muslim community through education in the name of integration. The Imams and Masajid have been playing their parts to keep Islamic faith alive, but that is not enough. British schooling does not promote global cohesion. It does not encourage dialogue and increases understanding. • Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. They need to learn and be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to learn and be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran. They need to learn and be well versed in Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.• Iftikhar Ahmadwww.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6489d69 Comments

Its Christmas Ifty, just in case you forgot....you know that Christian festival one that we have in England once a year, where we all enjoy ourselves. At this time it would be nice though if you stopped moaning about how bad our education system is, and showed just a tiny bit of gratitude for allowing you to even access it.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6489d

Don't know why you bother Andrew, I doubt he has the courtesy to even look at the replies. Anyway his messages always give me a tast for a pork pie, can't think why.

Peter Wright ● 6489d

" his messages always give me a tast for a pork pie"... and a pint.Ifty is an Islamic missionary. He has posted comments on my blog but not ones of particular relevance to my posts. Typical of his ilk, he wants all his human rights at our expense i.e. more freedom than Muslims allow anyone where they rule. One simple question for him. If Islam is so wonderful why do so many Muslims prefer to live in the kaffir West which they despise?

Graham Weeks ● 6489d

Perhaps multifaith countries don't work either? But at this time of year shouldn't we be talking about scrapping Boxing Day as a public holiday? After all, we are as a country, becoming less Christian and more the minions of Mammon. And if we even go to church we are probably pigging out afterwards.

Alan Brainsby ● 6489d

Ifty is an Islamic missionary. He has posted comments on my blog but not ones of particular relevance to my posts. If being a martyr, takes you to paradise where they will have 27 virgins made available to them, why isn't there a rush to join the queue by the mullahs.........You not interested Ifty?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6489d

Thanks where thanks is due.I was reminded to get a nice piece of pork out of the freezer to defrost for tomorrow.Praise be!

Alan Brainsby ● 6489d

re They need to learn and be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran. They need to learn and be well versed in Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      Ifti, you're like an Islamic parrot. You peddle this nonsense all over the place and have been told many times it is up to the parents and community to teach  young muslims about their history religion and language. Here they are British schoolchildren first and last. Get used to it, sit back and watch their progress within a progressive country, not  one backsliding a thousand years to where you want them to go.

Tony Price ● 6489d

Re  The Imams and Masajid have been playing their parts to keep Islamic faith alive, but that is not enough. British schooling does not promote global cohesion.         xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    Ifti, you do nothing but criticise all things British. Makes me wonder why you and your lot chose to come here in the first place, and finding  it/ us not to your liking, why you stay here. As to cohesion, may I remind you the British built the biggest cohesive phenomena the world has ever known and is continuing with cohesion of the peoples of the world by means of the ENGLISH language, the greatest means of communication your kids will ever be offered, and for FREE!. You and they are so lucky.

Tony Price ● 6489d

Iffy,How are you managing on the benefits we British pay you so you and your family can eat?

Keith Iddon ● 6489d

Salaam British tax-payers have been funding nearly 7000 Church schools for a long time and not a single Brit ever raised any finger. Now Muslim community has the right to demanded state funded Muslim schools for their bilingual children and each and  every Tom and Harry do not want to see state funded Muslim schools. If Muslims have their own school that's indoctrination and segregation. State schools with monolingual non-Muslim teachers have been mis-educating and de-educating Muslim children for the last 60 years. Majority of them leave schools with low grades. They find themselves cut off from their cultural roots and are unable to enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. British schooling is the home of institutional racism and native teachers are chicken racist. This is the main reason why all minority groups would like to have their own state funded  schools with their own teachers. Now Hindu community has set up the first state funded school in Harrow and next year in Leicester. Black community is also thinking and planning a school for their children with black teachers as role models. According to a recent report, Muslim schools performed best overall, although they constitute only a fraction of the country's 7000 schools. Muslim schools do well because of their Islamic ethos and a focus on traditional discipline and teaching methods. They teach children what is right and what is wrong, because young children need structured guidance. We would like all Muslim children to be educated in Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models. They need to learn and be well versed in standard English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. After leaving Muslim schools they can decide whether to follow their own culture and faith or follow your culture and way of life. For the time being they have no choice. All of them suffer from identity crises. They do not know where they belong. Please visit    www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk for more information on this crucial and complicated issue. Iftikhar AhmadFounder of the First Muslim School in the United Kingdom

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6488d

"British tax-payers have been funding nearly 7000 Church schools for a long time and not a single Brit ever raised any finger. "Your ignorance is astonishing. The secularists never stop moaning about faith schools.BTW these schools were founded by churches then incorporated by the state as part of the national system of education. I suggest your community try following that example. Try giving before you make demands. You might also try debate after listening not shouting your so called rights with no response to your critics. You sound like a propaganda automaton.

Graham Weeks ● 6488d

We really do need to decouple religion and education.I have no real interest in faith schools.I suspect I live in a largely secular society. So let's have secular schools, and religion can take its place as a peer on the curriculuum list along with civics, history, geography, ethics and morality etc.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6487d

"I suspect I live in a largely secular society. So let's have secular schools"We live in a constitutionally Christian country. Children should be educated according to the wishes of their parents. Many prefer faith schools.

Graham Weeks ● 6487d

'British tax-payers have been funding nearly 7000 Church schools for a long time'This isn't actually true. The Government has a commitment to provide universal state education. The Churches (and some other religions) provide the premises and some of the funding for maintenance in their schools. The taxpayer actually benefits very substantially from the arrangement.The Hindu and Sikh schools that have been set up in West London recently have been done so under the same kind of arrangement. They are not the first examples in this country. There is nothing to stop the Muslim community doing the same. This has been done by them in other parts of the country.The Hindus and Sikhs have set up these schools despite the fact that their children have generally outperformed the average in the British schools system with its 'chicken racist' teachers. The Muslim community in general does not have a problem with poor performance, it is those children from families originating in Pakistan and Bangladesh who on average only get 25% higher GCSE passes - half the rate of the rest of the country. This isn't down to the education system but the low aspirations for their children of the parents and, if your posts are anything to go by, a tendency to blame others for the problem rather than looking at ways and means of sorting it out.

Paul Cavanagh ● 6487d

Re  SalaamBritish tax-payers have been funding nearly 7000 Church schools for a long time and not a single Brit ever raised any finger.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Shalom,       The last part Ifti is a sweeping statement of which you have supplied no proof, and I seriously doubt it's veracity anyway. However, to answer the main contention of your sentence, of course Church schools are funded, because plain and simply, this is a CHRISTIAN country first and foremost, something you will have to live with. Islam is an alien religion to this country but due to our advanced state of civilisation, we allow others to practice their religion openly, freely without let or hindrance. I suggest you appreciate that and until Islamic countries do the same to us,I think you should be grateful for what you are given. Tell me Ifki,of any major Islamic country that does NOT PERSECUTE non Muslims, and allows them full freedom to openly worship as they need. Until you answer some of our questions,don't keep posting YOUR demands on us. Go abroad and do some good, real good, not all this woolly clap-trap you keep peddling.

Tony Price ● 6487d

Re  Now Muslim community has the right to demanded state funded Muslim schools for their bilingual children and each and  every Tom and Harry do not want to see state funded Muslim schools. If Muslims have their own school that's indoctrination and segregation.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      Shalom Ifki                    you're quite right , it would lead to segregation and indoctrination, the nature of the latter could well be highly suspect. We know for a fact, madrasses in this country peddle traditional Islamic views and instruction, which must not be allowed. Too backward, too inhumane, not acceptable in this day and age in an enlightened society, which you and your lot have chosen to be part of, so when in Rome, do as the Romans do. You change to us, not we to you.

Tony Price ● 6487d

Re  British schooling is the home of institutional racism and native teachers are chicken racist.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      I think this should be sent to  the M C B for their comments and what your establishment is up to with the damage you are doing stirring up racial tension. My Pakistani friends would be horrified with what you are doing, some of whom for generations were sent to this country for the sole purpose of an ENGLISH education. One newspaper correspondent in Pakistan sends me his proposed articles for " comment " before publication and another special friend who lives de temps en temps near me is so pro English, as are his family and the generations before. I have long since had an open invitation to stay with him in Pakistan, but at the present time, he has his work cut out with pressing matters.

Tony Price ● 6487d

Re  We would like all Muslim children to be educated in Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models. They need to learn and be well versed in standard English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. After leaving Muslim schools they can decide whether to follow their own culture and faith or follow your culture and way of life. For the time being they have no choice. All of them suffer from identity crises. They do not know where they belong.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        what a load of cobblers. Any or all of their own community languages are the sole responsiblity of their parents and community. If some suffer from an identity crisis, I suggest that is because  their communities  try pull them back into their dark ages and out of the sunlight of evolved British / European cultures and customs. You are the ones at fault Ifki, let thy people go!. Release them, honour them, and trust them, let them flourish into good humane human beings. Go to Islamic countries Ifki, do some good work there to advance civilisation and leave your children to our care, the like of which they won't get elsewhere. They belong here, Ifki, here in England, this green and pleasant land.

Tony Price ● 6487d

Re  Please visit    www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk for more information on this crucial and complicated issue.Iftikhar AhmadFounder of the First Muslim School in the United Kingdom            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      the way you are going Ifki, it may well be the last. The Head of any educational authority in this country who calls our teachers  chicken racists and who is so a anti British warrants investigation and possible closure. Let's hope there are under cover agents of the State keeping a watch on what you are up to. Could well be a right old  hot bed for all we know?.

Tony Price ● 6487d

SalaamMuslim Community has been a victim of Paki-bashing for the last 60 years by the British society and the British Establishment did nothing. Now Muslim community is victim of terrorism by the British Establishment and thousands of Muslim youths are being searched in streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar without any trial. As you know that British prisons are training grounds for criminals. When they come out God knows what they are going to do.Muslim children have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them leave schools with low grades. They find themselves cut off from their cultural roots and unable to enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.British schooling has become exam factories and is only interested in A to C Grades. They do not educate children to grow up as human beings.

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6487d

SalaamEvery Muslim child must learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time every Muslim child must learn Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with his/her cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of his/her literature annd poetry.A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit.

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6487d

My understanding is that C of E schools do admit those of other faiths - they exclude only those of no faith. And they are state subsidised as part of the established church - to which I don't really object. Is that true  also of RC schools? The ones that should NOT be state schools are the ones that exclude children professing another faith....whatever that faith is...Muslim, Jewish, Hindu.But I rather agree that, in the best of all possbile worlds, state schools should be non-denominational and not attached to any religion.

Sara Nathan ● 6487d

Re  Now Muslim community is victim of terrorism by the British Establishment           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      If we go to war, send our troops to fight and lay their lives on the board so as to defend muslims on the Balkans, I don't think we are likely to make terrorist activities here at home against in-house muslims, or do you think we  are just anti in-house Pakistani.

Tony Price ● 6487d

SalaamImams, Masajid and Muslim schools do not teach children to hate non-Muslims but your children are born with the virus of racism. They come to schools with the hatred of those who are different in colour or believes.This is one of the main reason why European and American are reverting to Islam according to their own wills. There is no compulsion in Islam.

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6487d

Re  At the same time every Muslim child must learn Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with his/her cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of his/her literature annd poetry.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx          you're getting it all wrong Ifti, not only are they in Britain of their own choosing and probably want to forget the outdated outmoded inhumane culture they are being rescued from. I note none of them choose to go and live in Pakistan for example as the  country you cite, and even when they seek a partner in that country, they bring the partner back here as opposed to going to live there where the partner is. That surely tells us all, where and what is their preferred abode.

Tony Price ● 6487d

Re  They come to schools with the hatred of those who are different in colour or believes.This is one of the main reason why European and American are reverting to Islam according to their own wills. There is no compulsion in Islam.             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      I don't know where you have been hiding Ifki, but you do have some perverse  views. A child of 4 or 5 would not have racist views ( except one a few years back in Reading of that age who complained to his school he objected to the British flag or somesuch. He was Muslim, and could only be doing what he had been told to do ). And to say there is no compulsion in Islam is the biggest joke of the year. Persons of other faiths, Christians and Jews especially are murdered,mass raped , fire-bombed and driven out of their homes in Islamic countries, so don't come that old soldier. And what is the Islamic attitude to any Muslim who leaves, or wants to leave the faith. They must be put to death, no compulsion, don't make us laugh.

Tony Price ● 6487d

... state schools should be non-denominational and not attached to any religion... I would agree with that statement with the proviso that in state schools together is an insult religion should be taught as a subject and encompass as many beliefs and creeds as reasonable, ie non-worshipping mode/non-religious instruction, and school assemblies to contain no religious content whatsoever.For faith and independent schools again religion to be taught as a subject but the assembly may be faith orientated.Religious instruction is a matter for "Sunday School" and its equivalents outside the Anglican communion and by law should not be allowed to be taught in ANY school. So a "faith" school would only provide the ethos. To see an assembly where bits of different faiths are bolted together is an insult to those religions included.We should be surprised that the current government hasn't come up with the solution of an all-inclusive religion combining the best practices of Anglicanism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Roman Catholicism, and any other religions that I have not mentioned.Of course this will never happen as the government is composed of persons of different faiths.

Alan Brainsby ● 6487d

Sorry Alan, just do not understand what you are trying to say here - am not arguing just asking for a more understandable exposition: "I would agree with that statement with the proviso that in state schools together is an insult religion should be taught as a subject and encompass as many beliefs and creeds as reasonable, ie non-worshipping mode/non-religious instruction, and school assemblies to contain no religious content whatsoever."

Sara Nathan ● 6487d

SalamiBut who was it who blew up a train and killed 52 people and injured 200, not forgetting the terrorist who exploded a bomb on a bus, nice people Ifty aren't they.........not to mention bloody cowards. I often wonder how they are coping with 27 virgins up their in paradise,I bet it's not as good as the paradise that they left behind hereAny comment on the the 2 schoolgirls in Afghanistan, who had acid thrown in their face..........why? because they were going to school....the Taliban (Muslims) won't tolerate education for girls or women will they Ifty, unlike the paradise you have all made for yourselves here?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6487d

Re    (Muslims) won't tolerate education for girls or women will they Ifty,      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      that's a good point, do you champion the education of Muslim girls Ifti, and if so, to what level. Does your College educate  girls and insist on the Hijab. Are they segregated from the boys.  And the Faith schools you want, what would their  behaviour be in these matters. The five times a day prayer meetings, are /would they  be during normal teaching times or are your overall school days increased to incorporate the time spent in the 5 a day prayers.

Tony Price ● 6487d

Sara -broadly saying all schools should teach Divinity, RK, RS, RE, whatever, as a subject, say like geography. No religious instruction in any faith to be taught, ie the "worshipping" bit.In state schools a secular ethos should be present - no religious imagery or religion in assemblies.In faith schools, pertinent religious imagery and religious assemblies permitted, but no religious instruction. The idea being that religious practice is something one brings to school; not takes home from school.

Alan Brainsby ● 6487d

SalaamYou better visit a Muslim school and find out what is going on. All Muslim schools are inspected by OFSTEd.

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6487d

'Constitionally Christian' eh? We are a country without a constitution.As to the 'size' of the Christian community, I don't see queues forming outside churches at service time. I suspect there are 1,000s of 'nominal 'Christians in my neighbourhood.I don't have a problem with anyone's belief system as long it does no harm to them or to others. Also I think it's helpful for children to be taught a range of belief systems.Again, it's the worshiping bit I object to.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6487d

Re  You better visit a Muslim school and find out what is going on.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      to save me the trouble Ifti, all you need do is answer the questionS, after all, that's what a Forum like this exists for, discussion, not enticement to take physical trips. Let the word do the walking.

Tony Price ● 6487d

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3965637/Indulgence-of-Islam-is-harming-society.htmlbut who the **** cares?

Alan Brainsby ● 6487d

Re  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3965637/Indulgence-of-Islam-is-harming-society.html          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        thanks for the link Alan , and we should all care. Islam is trying to take over the West, incl GB. A former President of Tunisia ( or Algeria ), Boumedienne said  some years back that Islam will conquer Europe by stealth, ie immigration into and outbreeding we Europeans, and that is exactly what is happening. So if we don't want the already set up Muslim Parliament of Britain to actually take over, be aware and on your guard. Sadly there are too many trojan horses and sycophants willing to do just that but the smiles will be wiped off their faces when the full reality of their actions comes home to roost.

Tony Price ● 6487d

SalaamThousands and thousands of westerners are reverting to Islam, according to their own wills. They are more interested in the education of their children than migrant Muslims. By the end of the century, nearly half of European population will revert to Islam. No body is forcing them to revert. There is no compulsion in Islam. In Finland, there are only 40,000 Muslims and majority of them are native Muslims, reverted to Islam. They have their own Islamic party and they have been campaigning for the introduction of Sharia Laws in Finland for Muslims as well as for non-Muslims.Islam neither belongs to East nor belongs to West. It is a universal faith and way of life. I think you also better start studying Islamic literature in English and it is just possible that Allah will show you the right path.

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6486d

"'Constitionally Christian' eh? We are a country without a constitution."No. We are a country with no written constitution. Our constitution is found in  laws passed or the common law. The Coronation Oaths show the Christian nature of our constitution, a fact neglected by our political masters etc."Again, it's the worshiping bit I object to."I agree that the worship part in state school assemblies has now no real meaning. It should have, where parents chose faith schools, and wish to start the day with their faith.

Graham Weeks ● 6486d

" There is no compulsion in Islam."Next you will tell us there is no death penalty for apostasy? Will you tell us Islam favours democracy or freedom of expression? That it gives a law that is equitable to women and unbelievers? That Islam is so attractive lots of converts want to move and live Islamic regimes? Will you explain  about the Islamic doctrine of deception, taqiyya? Will you tell us Islam is opposed to violent jihad?No. Because all you do is propagandise. You are too proud or afraid to enter debate.

Graham Weeks ● 6486d

"In Finland, there are only 40,000 Muslims and majority of them are native Muslims, reverted to Islam"Your source for this?The official Finnish tourist site says,"..both the Evangelical-Lutheran and Orthodox churches still have the status of official religions. Some 86% of the population belong to the former and about 1% to the latter, and both faiths are protected under a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion.Population of Finland 5.3 million"The CIA Handbook says"Lutheran Church of Finland 82.5%, Orthodox Church 1.1%, other Christian 1.1%, other 0.1%, none 15.1% (2006)"Wikipedia says"Islam was introduced to Finland by Baltic Tatars at the end of the 19th century. Since the late 20th century the number of Muslims in Finland has increased rapidly due to immigration. In 1999, there were an estimated 20,000 Muslims in Finland.The Baltic Tatars arrived in Finland as merchants and soldiers at the end of the 19th century. They were later joined by other family members.Muslims Among Various Ethnic Groups in Finland • Somali (4,694) • Arab, (2,599) • Kurd (2,560) • Persian (1,658) • Turkish (incl. Tatar) (1,357) • Kosovars (784) • Pakistani (400) • Thai (16) • Others (522)Source , World Christian Database"

Graham Weeks ● 6486d

"It is a universal faith and way of life. I think you also better start studying Islamic literature in English and it is just possible that Allah will show you the right path."Where was Allah, when his followers blew themselves and 52 others on a train, did he do anything to protect the two young girls who had acid thrown in their face for attending school. Ifty we all have put questions to you many many times, but you just continue with your propaganda,if your wish is to convert us to Islam, give an opinion on what we ask of you. You are causing great damage to your religion, which the moderates won't thank you for.......so come on Ifty condemn those who we have mentioned, you may then just get some credibility!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6486d

Lets face it Ifty, as a propagandist for your (could I say chosen, were you ever allowed to chose Ifty?) religion, your crap, all you ever do is build up antagonism against you and your thoughts but I think thats your intention all along, to be a martyr.

Peter Wright ● 6486d

ReRe Islam neither belongs to East nor belongs to West. It is a universal faith and way of life. I think you also better start studying Islamic literature in English and it is just possible that Allah will show you the right path.               xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  perhaps you would like to comment on the following passage from The Telegraph at the same time as answering the questions of what goes on in your schools, especially as regards girls and the education thereof, and to say persons in the West, incl. Finland are REVERTING to Islam is saying Finns were Muslims, left the faith under pain of death and now re-joining, which I find hard to believe, so please answer that, plus the questions of girls in your UK schools and on this article  :-          " Early next year, the think tank Civitas will publish a survey of 100 British Muslim schools. Entitled When Worlds Collide, it will argue that some of them are pushing pupils into ghettos. Young women, in particular, are forbidden to pursue career opportunities. "Every year, an incalculable number of Muslim young women are lost to the wider world," says the report. One school website links to al-Qaeda; another directs pupils to a scholar who advocates the murder of Jews. "

Tony Price ● 6486d

Re  It should have, where parents chose faith schools, and wish to start the day with their faith.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    or at least an assembly professing allegiance to the Flag ( of Britain ) and H M The QUEEN. That should sort the wheat from the chaff.

Tony Price ● 6486d

Re  Muslims Among Various Ethnic Groups in Finland• Somali (4,694)• Arab, (2,599)• Kurd (2,560)• Persian (1,658)• Turkish (incl. Tatar) (1,357)• Kosovars (784)• Pakistani (400)• Thai (16)• Others (522)Source , World Christian Database          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Now why should any person from a boiling hot country wish to go thousands of miles to live in a freezing cold one. What is the attraction or what is the underlying purpose. I can only conclude it is part of the long-term aim as pronounced by President Boumedienne 20 or 30 years ago re Islamists capturing Europe by immigration and out-breeding the indigenous populations. There are those on these Forums who will not see the dangers inherent in mass immigration, mosques are springing up all over the place, and let's hope the idea that K L was so fond of , that the  London Olympics be an excuse for building the most huge mosque imaginable in Stratford. Boris must knock that on the head.

Tony Price ● 6486d

Re  By the end of the century, nearly half of European population will revert to Islam. No body is forcing them to revert.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      this is an e mail I received today from an acqaintance and which contains disturbing facts :-      " I've been warning people about islam for years but no-one wanted to know.  As far as I;m concerned every single muslim in this country is part of the whole and part of the problem since they make up numbers and numbers equals power. It's not as if it's a decent religion, they follow a mass murderer who raped and enslaved people and was a paedophile.  Where has British common sense gone? Mind you when we have these in charge of religion at channel 4 what else can you expect?Channel 4's commissioning editor for religion is Aaqil Ahmed and they also have Narinder Minhas who is one of the most powerful Asians in British media. Quote: Aaqil Ahmed said: “This is an exciting moment with Channel 4’s renewed commitment to multicultural programming and I’m looking forward to helping to deliver a distinctive take on what modern multicultural programming should be.” Channel 4 also plans to put measures in place to reflect all kinds of social diversity including ethnicity, disability, nationality, regionality, age and gender. "

Tony Price ● 6486d

Re  We live in a constitutionally Christian country.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    And apparently there are Cabinet Ministers in the present Govt. who are advocating the dis-establishment of the Church and State on the grounds the Church  should not have say in " running " of the nation, or that it has too much say. But what really lies behind this proposition, because if that were to happen, then all things British, customs, heritage, history, culture, and education will really be on the slippery slope to oblivion. Enoch was right, building our own funeral pyres. Once we let slip, don't think " the others " will not try to climb into the ascendancy. Just look at our Ifti and his slowly slowly catchee monkey, but no doubt I will receive the usual taunt of racist because I wish to retain what is/ was  " ours'".

Tony Price ● 6486d

"or at least an assembly professing allegiance to the Flag ( of Britain ) and H M The QUEEN. That should sort the wheat from the chaff."I fear they would never have this citing human rights legislation or worse still, wanting a pledge of allegiancee to the EUSSR.

Graham Weeks ● 6486d

Re  citing human rights legislation or worse still, wanting a pledge of allegiancee to the EUSSR.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      refusal to the first would disclose " their " hand and thus be pertinent, and to the second, " they " may well be agreeable as it is not to their country of residence ( Flag ) or to The Queen, and all she stands for as Head of State ( THIS State )and all it stands for, in their eyes. So let's hope no-one comes up with that idea. But in any event, it is the vowed intent of the Islamists to take over, even if it takes say  a 100 years to do so. And the way the trojan horses , indigenous PC wallies, luvvvies and sychophants ( as  seen on these Forums ) advocate  what they think is virtuous multi- culturalism ( and there ain't no such thing ), I don't think it will take that long. If I were a parent with children in their teens or younger, I would be very worried, for their sakes. Sorry luvvies, but you are building your childrens' funeral pyres, IMO.

Tony Price ● 6486d

"Sorry luvvies, but you are building your childrens' funeral pyres, IMO."If the Muslims win there will be no cremations either.The one person who has spoken out from the establishment is the Bishop of Rochester. Being a Christian of Pakistani origins he knows what Islam is about. Here those like Ifty play the PC victim game and shout about their rights. When they get to be in control they at best relegate non-muslims to inferior dhimmi status or persecute them. Unless of course the people in question are apostates from Islam. Then they die.

Graham Weeks ● 6486d

"And apparently there are Cabinet Ministers in the present Govt. who are advocating the dis-establishment of the Church and State on the grounds the Church  should not have say in " running " of the nation, or that it has too much say.'Also the odd archbishop too :-(

Graham Weeks ● 6486d

for dis-establishment read - further destabilisation of our country.

Robert Darke ● 6486d

Re  When they get to be in control they at best relegate non-muslims to inferior dhimmi status or persecute them.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      and when they get in control, Jews will be the first in the " firing line ". I wonder if they will round them up like the Nazis did. I will have  remove my Star of David ring!

Tony Price ● 6486d

Re  Also the odd archbishop too :-(           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      some of them are pretty odd, and that august body in the form of Baroness Butler-Schloss has now joined in. But one of  the Birts of BBC fame beat them to it by a few years.

Tony Price ● 6486d

Re  one of  the Birts of BBC fame beat them to it           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I forgot to add, " who went the whole hog ", as it were

Tony Price ● 6486d

Re  for dis-establishment read - further destabilisation of our country.         xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    exactly Robert, and can you understand why when some of us point out this truth there are some who resort to abusing us, call us all sorts of names and nasties but never ever tell us why they advocate  the arrival of all and and sundry from abroad seemingly in preference to we the indigs and the demise of us and our country. T'is a strange world, to be sure. I have just come back from West Ealing  main road and now nearly every shop is owned / run by persons from abroad, so are the people in the street, making me feel a stranger in my own land. Is it wrong that I don't " appreciate " that. I always thought it to be normal and natural for a sentient creature to be and wish to be among their own kind. And when I say sentient creature, I include most of those of the animal, bird and sea living worlds.

Tony Price ● 6486d

I don't really get this multi-culturism bit.I think I live in a mono-culturist society, which has a long and rich history in accomodating and tolerating many different ways of life, religions and attitudes.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6485d

"  Now why should any person from a boiling hot country wish to go thousands of miles to live in a freezing cold one. What is the attraction or what is the underlying purpose. I can only conclude it is part of the long-term aim as pronounced by President Boumedienne 20 or 30 years ago re Islamists capturing Europe by immigration and out-breeding the indigenous populations."I think this is an effect not an intent as far as most Muslims are concerned. Like most migrants in history their motivation is primarily economic. Which is in itself an adverse judgement on their own religion's achievments. " let's hope the idea that K L was so fond of , that the  London Olympics be an excuse for building the most huge mosque imaginable in Stratford. Boris must knock that on the head."Sadly I think he is too PC Nutory to stop it.

Graham Weeks ● 6485d

"I don't really get this multi-culturism bit.I think I live in a mono-culturist society, which has a long and rich history in accomodating and tolerating many different ways of life, religions and attitudes.'Our establishment, political and media, is secular and ashamed/in denial about the Christian roots of our culture. Best examples, the rubbish exhibition they put in the Dome and backing a proposed EUSSR constitution which denied any Christian origins for Europe.

Graham Weeks ● 6485d

Re  I don't really get this multi-culturism bit.I think I live in a mono-culturist society, which has a long and rich history in accomodating and tolerating many different ways of life, religions and attitudes.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      The PC wallies etc think it's the modern done thing to rubbish their own and praise laud and magnify all things alien. For why , they never tell us but that doesn't stop the disease of PC entering the minds of those in most if not all of public life, Police, MP's, judiciary, school, hospital and library administrators et al and they readily find supporters from the chattering classes, as we witness on these very Forums. One contributor has called me stupid, without ever spelling out why or making any useful contribution to any discussion. But, there are signs of distress within the very circles that used to advocate mass immigration and the attendent onslaught against all things indig. Even our Trev. Phirrips has said so and wait when the Arch. Bish. of Canterbury gets a rocket up his cassock. Maybe they have or will realise the basis of a nation is when there is a common purpose and behind a common history, culture and customs, without which we are nothing. It has been made a virtual criminal offence to upset an ethnic ( no Bibles in hospitals or hotels, no public sponsored signs of Christmas, Winterthal now, just a few examples, apart from our flag, of course ) so I think we should turn the tables and say it is an offence for an ethnic or PC walley to upset an indig. !        Old Auntie, as was is THE bastion of all things multi-cultural  and  changed  3 or more years back to multi- origin, that's what they think we are and try to portray that in programmes. Have you not noticed when filming a gathering they zoom in on ethnics in preference, when interviewing in the street, the ethnics come first and we come second if at all, and in the spheres of News casters, reporters and programme presenters,  ethnics are far over -represented in relation to their supposed  make-up in the overall UK population, all of which is subtle brainwashing. See how most adverts now also push indigs into the background and try to portray mixed relationships as the norm. Try doing that in any Muslim country or even Israel.

Tony Price ● 6485d

"Old Auntie, as was is THE bastion of all things multi-cultural  and  changed  3 or more years back to multi- origin, that's what they think we are and try to portray that in programmes. Have you not noticed when filming a gathering they zoom in on ethnics in preference, when interviewing in the street, the ethnics come first and we come second if at all, and in the spheres of News casters, reporters and programme presenters,  ethnics are far over -represented in relation to their supposed  make-up in the overall UK population, all of which is subtle brainwashing. "The best example of disproportional favouring of minorities is the number of non-Christian contributors to Thought For The Day.

Graham Weeks ● 6485d

Re  The best example of disproportional favouring of minorities is the number of non-Christian contributors to Thought For The Day.           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      I must admit I have never watched it, when and where is it. I don't watch TV much for 2 reasons, upsets me and most is a load of tripe anyway.

Tony Price ● 6485d

Thought For The Day is on Radio 4's Today around 7.45 am/

Graham Weeks ● 6485d

Re  Thought For The Day is on Radio 4's Today around 7.45 am/        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        thanks, but no wonder I don't come across it. I ain't even awake by then, not even remotely thinking about it. Sleep the sleep of the innocent, you understand. Not inferring you are not an innocent, of course.

Tony Price ● 6485d

I have just seen on the NEWS Ifti, that 2 Christians running a church in an Islamic country, Gambia, I think , are being prosecuted and with the strong possibility of a 5 year imprisonment for sending e mails to FRIENDS !! saying that country is in the process of falling into the morass of Islam, ie  criticising that religion as it is being practiced there and which is being also interpreted as criticising the President. What do have you to say about that, in view of what you write here on PUBLIC Forums, incl. Yahoo Message boards. What period of imprisonment do you think you should get. Also, the question arises as to how the private e mails to friends got into the hands of the Authorities in that country. You must relish and revel in the freedom the wicked West afford you. You do appreciate it, don't you?.

Tony Price ● 6483d

Many Islamic dissidents are here because they would be locked up in their own countries. However, gratitude towards non-Muslims is not an Islamic characterisitc. That is the big lesson from Iraq.(with the exception of the Kurds who remain pleased to have been liberated)

Graham Weeks ● 6482d

      Have I pointed out our Ifti has posted on the Acton Forum the exact same  starting message as the one he used to kick this lot off. I have warned the " members " of the Acton Forum of his antics here and elsewhere and not to bother arguing with him, and if I may, I would like to post on here  one that I have just entered onto the Acton one, as it raises an interesting point, which I have asked our Ifti there if he will answer, not expecting for one moment that he will but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Here is the guts of the post on Acton Forum :-          " Re  Iftikhar has been posting on the Wandsworth forum for months             and what sort of reception did he get? Yesterday I got a txt message from a special friend in Pakistan wishing me a happy Christmas  and New Year etc etc, which sparked off much exchanges of messages back and forth , this friend is of religious belief ( prays 5 times per day ) and with whom I have had many interesting discussions. He also put a trainee journalist friend of his in touch with me and who sends me his articles to me for comment or after they have actually gone for publication. Today I received such a one, interesting overall, and which had one very telling sentence, so I sent an e mail to the person and not to his newspaper for obvious reasons, and this is the e mail I sent and maybe our Ifti would  like to answer on behalf of his co-religionists meantime :-      " XXXXXXXXXXXYZ gmail.com writes:      The reproductive system of70 per cent women was badly affected due to marriage in minor age,              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx            an overall very good well written article, and the above piece raises some very fundamental questions. I am sure you understand the nature of what I am referring to, matters of a much wider issue. As  a matter of interest, what sort of ages of these females would be involved, the youngest being of what age? "

Tony Price ● 6482d

Salaam We would like to wish you a HAPPY New YEAR. ALLAH shower His blessing upon you all-Ameen

Iftikhar Ahmad ● 6481d

Re  Salaam We would like to wish you a HAPPY New YEAR. ALLAH shower His blessing upon you all-Ameen          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      Shalom Ifti, shalom, may Yahweh shower you and your's with bountiful commonsense and bring you all back to reality and sanity. Trust in The LORD Ifti so you may be BLESSED with the HOLY SPIRIT. And what reception did the good people of Wales give you ? see your link :-              forums.walesonline.co.uk   (Link) 

Tony Price ● 6481d