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To me you seem to duck and dive rather than argue consistently. You are a self proclaimed luvvie basher. Does that mean you are against Human Rights,  including the problems that go with it? You cannot have those rights without some problems.Answer: I’m for Human Rights, not for just criminals but emphasis on the victimsYou do not know how many illegal’s there are in this country. You do not how many are working. You do not know how many are here as economic migrants. And, you do not know how many there are here because they have fled repression death and torture.Answer: It’s not my job to know, sadly nor does anyone else but I expect the authorities or their agents to have at least a rough idea, estimates do nothing to determine what services we need or provide for now and in the future!  Ask yourself, that if as you say they are escaping torture and repression, and as one would suspectvery traumatised, why not seek asylum in the nearest "safe" country as the law suggests, the attraction here cannot be our weather........can it?You do not state the problem in the context of all Europe where there other illegal’s, also uncountable.Answer: I am not interested in Europe’s problems, until we can solve our own, had you not noticed the illegal’s waiting at Calais to get here, perhaps with your vast knowledge you can explain why the French don’t take responsibility by sending them back, and why is it that MEN ONLY escaping torture and persecution women are well treated I take it?. Last why do they destroy their identification to hide where they are from Do you hate these illegal’s?Answer: The illegal’s that have committed foul and despicable crimes in their home country, and then commit rape and robbery here Hate is not a strong enough description to describe my feelings. We have a fair asylum system why not enter legally and put their case to the Home Office/Immigration. Do you think an island has perfect borders? Have you got ideas which the brains of the Civil Service have not been able to think up? Have you noticed that immigrants entering this country are reported as reducing?Answer: An island SHOULD have perfect borders, we managed very well in the last war, and even Adolf with all of his forces was unable to get here. If as you say the Civil service “brains” cannot think up, I could make a few suggestionsApart from standing on a soap box what positive action have you taken to prevent illegal’s staying here and what do you intend to do in the future to get rid of illegal’s? Will you make any difference? Should the SS Windrush be rebuilt to go in the opposite direction? Answer: What positive action do you or can you suggest that I can take other than through the ballot box, but you may or may not know, that not one political party have put forward a viable solution for controlling it, again I could offer some, but you liberal luvvies, who are not slow in demonstrating and berating or accusing everyone who is concerned about immigration as being racist. For your information I sailed on the Windrush, ostensibly to go to Korea but was redirected to go to Malaya in the 50’s as a National serviceman……….what was your experience. Conscientious objector?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6445d

Here's something sent to me today by a staunch churchman which will delight the luvvies :-      "  An Obituary printed in the London Times This is really worth reading! Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, whohas been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was,since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. Hewill be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets theworm; Life isn't always fair; and maybe it was my fault.Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spendmore than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,are in charge).His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned butoverbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boycharged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspendedfrom school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired forreprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing thejob that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unrulychildren.It declined even further when schools were required to get parentalconsent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student; but couldnot inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have anabortion.Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses;and criminals received better treatment than their victims.Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from aburglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed torealize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little inher lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, byhis wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;I Know My RightsI Want It NowSomeone Else Is To BlameI'm A VictimNot many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and donothing. 

Tony Price ● 6441d

Blockhead. My suggestion of the opposite of luvvie.What is great about the application of 'luvvie' is that it is not limited to describe the insane elements of the PC brigade. It also seems to apply anyone who thinks there might be another side, or might see worth in an individual case, anyone who might worry about human rights in any way. If you think there are any doubts about the legality and the humanity of Guatanemo Bay – you are a luvvie. You have forgotten about the “war on terror” you luvvie. Tough times demand tough action, do you not understand? If you ever thought that perhaps someone from the EU has a right to work in the UK then you are a simple luvvie. These people are stealing our jobs, our resources and our children. And probably our puppy dogs too. So I guess this means blockhead covers an equally wide definition. If you ever even mentioned that there may be merit letting children enjoy their childhood – you are a blockhead. Idiot, the un-monitored child playing on a small swing may inadvertently fly off, land on a baby in a pram, and both career out into the busy street. That would be your fault, blockhead. If you have ever felt a slight twinge of sympathy for a policeman struggling to fulfil his duty then you are a blockhead. You fool, the police are clearly the public face of the military-political state we live in, you blockhead. And you said policeMAN not "mutli-cultural non-denominational policing-person of a non-specific sexual orientation", you blockhead. Seems only fair that if one group can be called luvvie, then the opposite group have their own term of endearment - 'blockhead'. Other suggestions are of course welcome.

Alan Clark ● 6441d

Hello George, AMJA and his friends don't like black, Asian or folks from eastern Europe coming to our country, *unless* they have loads of money to give us for our poor, old, infirm, ex military, etc. Then they may tolerate them until they have no more money to give. Anyone who has a trace of any other background than 2nd Century Briton has no right to be here. god forbid you eat pasta or any foreign rubbish, or organic food because that means you're a ponce and that extra cash could have gone to a disabled seaman for his breakfast, I wouldn't go to that Polish church either if I were you. Additionally, you may be pure 2nd Century Briton, but you shall be cast out if you express dislike for the Telegraph and the Mail or exhibit concern about man's inhumanity to man taking place in another country. But then you will be told this is another country now with all these dirty immigrants here killing and eating people. Thou shalt not pay your TV licence fee as the BBC has too many black and Asian faces and homos on and it is anti-British and one step away from Al Jazeera.They will not listen to alternative points of view, will label everyone outside their group with a pejorative word of some kind, and hijack any thread with "house or flat" in the title, for example "Flat tyre, anyone know a good garage?" > Re:"Flat tyre, anyone know a good garage?" ***********************Did you know there's a bunch of Afghans living in a flat in Ealing?! Us indigs (sic) could have had that! No-one thinks about the old people or poor Harold with that arrow in his eye .. etc.I just don't bother anymore, but today I just felt like it.Now you watch what he does next. He will not rise to the bait again because he's been caught before by various fisherfolk. He will sit at his monitor biting his nails until a moment of weakness arrives, his fingers will exlplode in a flurry of the same words in a different order and it will begin again .. AMJA,  I know you have too many already, Ealing, Acton, Chiswick, but I have found another home for you! http://community.babycentre.co.uk/talk/a659085/the_afghan_family_in_ealing

Verification Required ● 6440d

Let me see if I fully understand your points, Andrew.The illegal entry issue - you feel:1) There are lots of very nasty people coming into the UK.2) We, anywhere in the country, are at risk because of this.3) We need a most rigorous, ruthless reduction in illegal entries and matching policy kicking out anyone caught4)If anyone raises any point regarding possible problems in maintaining such a policy they are playing into the hands of these illegal-entry people5) The net gain reduction in crime and cost of benefits would more than compensate for the any reduction in human rights or the suffering of innocents (such as, genuine asylum seekers)The threat of terrorism - your view is:1) The threat is imminent and right here (from local people and from people entering the country)2) The only way to deal with the threat is to imprison / remove the threat3) The scale of horror from the consequences of not dealing with this threat is much worse than the consequences of applying the most ruthless approach to dealing with this4) Anyone who raises objections to this most ruthless approach (like saying - hey, you can't just lock up suspects) is missing the point on the threat and playing into the hands of these people5) Overall the aim should be greater good for the greater number - even if a small number of innocents sufferI ask it this way because, for me at least, your approach to defining your views is a bit muddled. I think its to do with your liberal use of the ranting approach to post writing (see other thread for clarification on this).I have tried to be fair in my reflection of how I understand your position. If you suspect any sarcasm be assured it is not intentional. I'd appreciate clarification (without capitalization if possible) if I've got a point wrong or missed a point.

Alan Clark ● 6440d

"AMJA,  I know you have too many already, Ealing, Acton, Chiswick, but I have found another home for you! http://community.babycentre.co.uk/talk/a659085/the_afghan_family_in_ealing"What a busy little boy you are, I will meet up with you at the baby centre as you probably know your way around there. Nice lad you seem to be, with the contempt for the military that you have. You should have paid more attention at History lessons at school, you may just (but I have my doubts though) have learned about the sacrifices that were made for miserable little scrotes like you, to spout the rubbish you have written here. But at a guess I would suspect that you are one of the great unwashed who demonstrate on our streets. I will challenge you, as I have the others of your ilk, to reproduce any of the quotes you have placed on here eg where have I said that I don't like Black, Asian, or Eastern Europeans. Try and stick to what I ACTUALLY said, not what you ASSUME that I said. Put your little red book away and come into the real world..........I will await your examples of my racism, homophobia, and sexism, just cut and paste....... fire away sonny! NigelI understand that you are a tad immature, but will you and any other like minded who supports your accusations, post them to the moderaators for their opinion(s). I will abide by any decision that they may make, but present them with the EVIDENCE,and perhaps a copy of your offering....If you decline it will mean that you were, as I said, talking out of your backside. Now that is off my chest, will you and any others please get in toch with the moderators and make a formal complaint.......after all, thats only fair when these accusations are thrown about"

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6440d

Sorry to repeat a previous post but you're desparate for something and I can't work out what. It may be my mis-reading of your posts, if so apologies. But help me, please. Let me see if I fully understand your points, Andrew.The illegal entry issue - you feel:1) There are lots of very nasty people coming into the UK.2) We, anywhere in the country, are at risk because of this.3) We need a most rigorous, ruthless reduction in illegal entries and matching policy kicking out anyone caught4)If anyone raises any point regarding possible problems in maintaining such a policy they are playing into the hands of these illegal-entry people5) The net gain reduction in crime and cost of benefits would more than compensate for the any reduction in human rights or the suffering of innocents (such as, genuine asylum seekers)The threat of terrorism - your view is:1) The threat is imminent and right here (from local people and from people entering the country)2) The only way to deal with the threat is to imprison / remove the threat3) The scale of horror from the consequences of not dealing with this threat is much worse than the consequences of applying the most ruthless approach to dealing with this4) Anyone who raises objections to this most ruthless approach (like saying - hey, you can't just lock up suspects) is missing the point on the threat and playing into the hands of these people5) Overall the aim should be greater good for the greater number - even if a small number of innocents sufferI ask it this way because, for me at least, your approach to defining your views can be a bit muddled. I think its to do with your empassioned writing style.I have tried to be fair in my reflection of how I understand your position. If you suspect any sarcasm be assured it is not intentional. I'd appreciate clarification (without capitalization if possible) if I've got a point wrong or missed a point. Copy and edit my attempt if that helps.Then - of exactly what do you want an example? (I may have missed where you began this quest so out of context your more recent requests seem unclear.)

Alan Clark ● 6440d

Let me see if I fully understand your points, Andrew.The illegal entry issue - you feel:1) There are lots of very nasty people coming into the UK.Answer :-Yes many from Bulgaria who are wanted for serious offences back home, the Bulgarian Police has confirmed that at least 200 are in the country and warrants for their arrest has been issued to our Extradition Police many are wanted on homicide charges. Also Russians running prostitution and forged documentation, women are kidnapped or conned into coming here to find work. On arrest they are found to be posing as Lithuanian……some have landed up in prison for serious assaults and robbery of our citizens…..lower down the scale are the people and drug smugglers……….more examples if you wish?2) We, anywhere in the country, are at risk because of this.Answer:-Yes, just ask the 80 year old lady living alone, who awoke one night to find 2 men (Polish), ransacking her home, on challenging them they assaulted her by banging her head oh the wall, and pushing her down the stairs. Funny, not a word from ther luvvies ti protest though" If they commit murder in their own country it is more than likely, that  they  will commit further crimes here. It could be you or a loved one next time, and indeed many still and have done so. In October last year police raids led to 21 people being arrested in the UK and 10 were charged with people smuggling. More arrests were made in Belgium. Three men from Turkey were at the top of the organisation - Ali Riza Gun, Ramazan Zorlu and Hassan Eroglu. None of them had UK citizenship but all had indefinite leave to remain.......May I ask why? are you not concerned at the possible danger?The ringleaders were Zorlu, Eroglu and GunThe ring, which had operated for up to 10 years, was run from a number of Turkish cafes in the Green Lanes area of Haringey, north London. Ali Riza Gun was a repeat offender. He was convicted of people smuggling in the UK in 1996 and sentenced to 30 months in jail. He was also convicted of people smuggling in France in 1998. He got three years but served only a year.As you will see from the above there is not enough room on here to give further examples, but these  weren’t arrested for shoplifting and pose a great threat to us all, either directly or indirectly! 3) We need a most rigorous, ruthless reduction in illegal entries and matching policy kicking out anyone caughtAnswer:- If we do not wish to destabilize the economy or our infrastructure, how will governments  plan for future education, housing and medical care, if we do not know who or how many are here, if they are genuine asylum seekers, if they are genuine, the Home Office should decide whether or not they are genuine, anybody entering illegally should be immediately deported. This is an Island and is the most overcrowded country in EuropeBritain's population could soar to 90million over the next 50 years.The dramatic increase, fuelled by immigration and a rising birth rate, would add more than 50 per cent to today's population and put enormous pressure on housing, transport and public services.Statisticians said the rise would be the equivalent of adding a city the size of Sheffield to the country each year.I will answer the rest of your points later on if you don’t mind, unlike the luvvies maybe that they again cannot face the reality........comedians they are not. At least, like it or not I answer the questions. How about asking them what I  have said that is either racist, sexist,or homophobic, I will pledge a donation to a charity of your choosing for each one quoted ...........fair enough?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6440d

Can we have less threads on these topics?There is a difference between enforcing the law and damning whole groups of people because some within that a group have committed a crime. Or calling all asylum claimants illegal where some people from one geography claim asylum for only monetary gain while others from the same geography geniunely have reason to fear for lives if they return. Or tagging all Muslims as intolerant when in reality only a number are. Or calling all police racist where only a few were.The problem with constantly, and blimey it feels so very constant, raising the issues of immigration and of terrorist threat and of crimes committed by people from other countries, etc. is that it paints one picture only. No-one says the events did not happen. No-one says when crimes are committed that people should not be held to account and, if guilty, sentenced.But the points have been made - at length and many many times. Enough chaps - please. Point made. We can disagree about the detail (scale of the problem, impact on the economy, length of sentences, etc.) but we hear your point.We make ridicule of these posts because they have become ridiculous. That is, ridiculously over-repeated and increasingly ridiculous in their shrill nature. This means any validity in the points you are trying to make is in danger of being lost.And please stop with the luvvie nonsense. There are very very few people who adhere to or support excessive PC concepts - and no-one really hugs trees in Ealing. Some may eat a bit of muelsi - but probably also enjoy a bacon sarnie too. I'll drop the blockhead stuff if you drop the luvvie name calling. Deal?

Alan Clark ● 6439d

Re  This country which hitherto prided itself on the  being the cradle of democracy and free speech is fast becoming it's graveyard        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    a few extracts from an e mail just sent me might give the luvvies an uplift :-    " FURY erupted yesterday after it was revealed a family charity event tocelebrate the life of St George is set to be banned.Councillor Yvonne Davies claimed the parade created an “unhealthyatmosphere” and inspired young boys to be racist.She wrote: “It is not only the parade which is the problem, but thetribal excitement it creates. The parade, involving 15,000 people, on April 23 is backed by the RoyalBritish Legion and attended by ex-servicemen"      The local Labour Councillor,(http://cmis.sandwell.gov.uk/CMISWebPublic/Member.aspx?personID=235 ) ,Ms Yvonne Davies, reportedly said, in an email copied in to her LabourColleagues, that:- " ...the parade .... creates a very unhealthyatmosphere .... - particularly amongst young males and I'm afraid Iwould support its demise for that reason..... It is not only the paradewhich is problem, but the 'tribal' excitement it creates in its wake."      And to satisfy the luvvies and make it LOCAL :-            It seems that the local authority and its councillors are ignoring thefact that Englishness has been (repeatedly) held by the courts to be aprotected category under the RRA?  (Ealing LBC – v – The RaceRelations Board HL/PO/JU/4/3/1205 and BBC Scotland – v – SousterCofS 019/18(16)99. )  and        "  In a letter to the organisers, one councillor, Yvonne Davies, said theparade created an 'unhealthy atmosphere' and inspired young boys to beracist.She wrote: 'It is not only the parade which is the problem, but thetribal excitement it creates.'The West Bromwich St George's Day parade started in 1998 and began as afairly modest affair with 5,000 turning up. Now three times that attendthe two-mile parade in April. Fire Service and Scout Association bandshave played, the British Legion lends its support and each year ex-servicemen attend.A volunteer dresses up as St George and rides with the marchers,children paint their faces with the St George Cross and there areactivities such as medieval jousting."

Tony Price ● 6436d