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Verification Required · 02/12/2009 16:10:00

new.EalingToday.co.uk Communtity Forum Topic posting

Do you know what, AMJA?

You think you represent the UK and feel you are a guardian of its shores, people and culture. However, you make me feel ashamed to be British with your ignorance and intolerance, and you insult your fellow citizens and those on this forum without knowing a damn thing about them. You are a disgrace to all that is wholesome about our country and its values. This forum has cancer because of you and I am going to unregister before I get it too.

Verification Required ● 6439d355 Comments

Don't do that Nigel. This was a lovely, perfectly nice forum a few months back. He doesn't bother contributing to the other forums now..he's had the same reaction over there. He'll move on eventually.

Penny Crocker ● 6439d

Wanna bet..........I thought you had gone! Are you his mum.Do you agree with his version of the criminals sent to Australia? I'll enlighten you elsewhere

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6439d

OK - scrub the idea that you gaining the high ground would set a new standard.

Alan Clark ● 6439d

The original poster is OK then....seems fair to me! Liberal sense of fair play I suppose, be abused and ignore it do I?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6439d

10. Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before.__________

Graham Weeks ● 6438d

I am relatively new to this Forum and wanted to contribute primarily with a West Ealing Neighbours slant where I could but have also contributed on a personal level too. I find the Forum quite fascinating actually; but what I tend to do is just ignore any posts that I don't particularly agree with (or have a really long, hard laugh) and am also not that bothered with and concentrate on those that I care passionately about. This keeps me both focused and positive! It would indeed be a very dull Forum if everyone agreed on everything and whilst I can't say I celebrate the diversity, nevertheless it exists. I am therefore sorry that individuals feel that they should leave, or are indeed upset by some of the views held on here.

Diane Gill ● 6438d

I am not thinking of going but I do wonder if the recent tone is keeping Gerry away. I shall ask.

Graham Weeks ● 6438d

Yes by all means ask him, you lot are like a flock of parrots, can't any of you think for yourselves. Take your heads from out of your backsides luvvies It is not surprising that, you of the defenders of what can and cannot be said or discussed on here have been slow in defending OUR culture for once, when under threat by your fellow luvvies in Sandwell West Bromwich, who have branded the proposed St.Georges Parade, as being racist but the quote from Councillor Yvonne Davies an honest to goodness liberal said "It is not only the parade which is the problem, but the tribal excitement that it creates" Her equally gutless Council voted to withdraw its financial support for the parade....no surprise there then!So!, may I say to the luvvies of Ealing, "Well done", you and your fellow lefty, sandal wearing luvvies have destroyed another English tradition, you have managed to screw up religious assembly's in many of our schools along with our national flag....what part of our culture is it that you are going to destroy next. You should all be proud of yourselves (not)

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

A friend of mine has just got a new cat called Mew Mew Flopsy Mopsy ..Nigel, This is from one of your more sensible postings, please rethink your decision to leave us..I need something just like this to brighten my day.......How is Flopsy Mopsy doing now? God I hope we never have to go to war again!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

Clarifcation: you may be wasting your time if you attempt to now assume a less aggressive approach to posts ... others will not respond as they seem to be repeating the same aggressive tone. Shame that.

Alan Clark ● 6438d

"he's had the same reaction over there. He'll move on eventually."Absolutely right, but you forgot to mention that the reactions was from those of your ilk, who are more than happy to destroy everything British.......culture and traditions. One lady though for example, who had admonished me even suggested that I went for a forum drink........another one asked for a "picky" (picture) so Ms Crocker not entirely right were you? Rest assured if Hounslow Council were to pay £12,480 rent per month on a house for someone newly arrived, no matter where they are from, I will exercise my right to protest or comment on it whether "Gentle Ealing" or not! You and those who you follow, like sheep will be the first to moan when your Council Tac is raised as it surely will. Finally if you want to discredit me, at least be honest, and not act like you all have and decline to cite examples of my "wrongdoings" You all claim to be fairminded, now is your chance!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

am therefore sorry that individuals feel that they should leave, or are indeed upset by some of the views held on here. DianeI have never personally said that anyone legally here should leave. What I do say, which many of the eager protesters to my posts, is that those who have entered in the backs or underneath of lorries, and destroyed their identities, should be sent back, usually to Calais, Then they can go through our immigration system, and if found to be genuine they stay, but having said that the should not be treated preferentially to British citizens. Any deviation from this, and we subsequently lose control of our borders means that genuine immigrants from wherever, and have fulfilled all of the necessary procedures will go to the bottom of the pile. Consider this, as this is a worry for the security of our countryIllegal immigrant figure revealed No past estimates of illegal immigrants have been published Up to 570,000 illegal immigrants are living in the UK, according to a new Home Office estimate. It is the first time the government has put a figure on the number of illegal immigrants, something Tony Blair in the past said was impossible. The Home Office says its best estimate is 430,000 but the number could be between 310,000 and 570,000. The Tories claim the estimate shows an immigration shambles and say it should have been released during the election. As you may have noticed, the liberal left want to stop any discussion on it.....frightening!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

I think Diane was talking about people leaving this forum, not the country! Still, another top rant there I must say.

Gillian Healey ● 6438d

Thanks Gill I was only talking of members of the Forum leaving based on the first posting!

Diane Gill ● 6438d

I just cannot win can I.....This was a rant was it mmmmmmmmm Didn't take you long to pick up the insullts did it!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

No comment from any of you about the banning of the St George's Day Parade. Strange how selective you lot are about what you protest about. Perhaps a few words would not go amiss, as you are all such a caring crowd aren't you all? So come on you Gentle Ealing folk, what part of our culture do you want to ban/change next.Try to leave out the abuse, and answer a straight question, or is that more difficult than the usual customary you shall not say/think this/that or the other replies........we know best and are always right mentality.I think discussing a cats name as mew mew popsy wopsy, as one of you has said, just about sums up what is important in your lives........Saints preserve, us if we ever have another war, white flags wuld outnumber the red white and blue one..

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

Thread hijack! My brother has taken on three cats and named them Crosby ,Stills and Nash.

Al Stuart ● 6438d

marginally better than..... Mew mew popsy wopsy I must say AL, just imagine reporting it missing....the mind boggles at the thought LOL!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

10. "Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before."__________Only you and the in crowd then are allowed to write, or as you so delicately put it Bull......seems fair to me! Glad to see you acknowledge your liberal credentials, and perhaps you can see how your liberal attitude is, as I have tried to point out elsewhere is being abused.But strange to relate none of your fellow liberals condemned you for it...strange that don't you think?Remember this belowTopic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Muslim Youths Forum Home Posted by: Graham J Weeks Date/Time: 24/10/08 16:14:00 I hope no-one in gentle kind Ealing is taken in by the Islamic propagandist on the forum.He plays the victim card hoping to make liberals feel guilty. He reasons on the basis of western liberal culture quoting human rights, not on the basis of his own religion which suppresses liberty. He is a blatant hypocrite demanding the sort of treatment here for his minority which Islamic majorities never extend to minorities where they rule.I do believe that children should be educated according to the wishes of parents, not the dictat of the state. But I do not see state funded muslim schools as being in the interest of social cohesion and integration.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

I was only pointing out that you'd got the wrong end of the stick in your reply to Diane. Actually I like nothing better than a rant. Ask anyone who knows me. I thought I was paying you a compliment.

Gillian Healey ● 6438d

I think Mew Mew Popsy might have been a wind up.Maybe we have different issues which worry us ... like where to buy eco friendly sandals.I'm not sure rampant Nationalism is too high in our minds...hence lack of response to St George's day. you may not like it Mr A but it seems to be the case.

Penny Crocker ● 6438d

I'm not sure rampant Nationalism is too high in our minds...hence lack of response to St George's day. you may not like it Mr A but it seems to be the case. I really love the logic of the left. We (or some of us do)celebrate St.Davids Day, and. St Patrick's Day, but don't view it as "Nationalistic" But mention St Georges day and it;s rampant Nationalism. What a sad day for our traditions and culture.....what next will be termed nationalistic so that you luvvies can ban it. Perhaps it will be November when we remember our dead of two world wars.....but I suspect that will soon happen if you lot view everything English/British celebration or remembrance as rampant nationalism...........sleep safe in your beds tonight, thanks to millions of nationalists, who died so you can. They will be proud of you lot! You forgot to mention Muesli by the way!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

Appropriate that you sang The Year of the Cat then.

Gillian Healey ● 6438d

Sorry, that was meant to be a reply to Al Stuart.

Gillian Healey ● 6438d

"I was only pointing out that you'd got the wrong end of the stick in your reply to Diane. Actually I like nothing better than a rant. Ask anyone who knows me. I thought I was paying you a compliment."GillI have got so use to seeing any of my opinions referred to as rants, that I acted too quickly, please accept my humble apology! Sorry!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

Graham Weeks ● 6438d

Yes bull that keeps on bellowing. Anyone who calls me a liberal and then quotes my anti=islamic post has a strange judgement to put it mildly. I am about as liberal as Ghengis Khan and you IMO are no friend of liberty with your advocating of police stopping all and sundry.Your remarks about the police and my opinions on the RTA once again not unusually, you manage to get it wrong. Liberty is not about allowing, driving around after drinking and or taking illegal drugs, driving without Insurance, Road Tax, MoT, or a driving licence. If one of these people were to damage you car, kill or maim you or a member of your family, you would be screaming from the rooftops "Where were the police?" You certainly have some strange ideas about liberty don't you? Think about what exactly you mean by liberty in this context. And an example of what it is that you will label as racist in any post I have made......but none of you have done so up to now, but its easier to hurl abuse.If as you say, as spokesman for the forum (yet another one) why do you all keep coming back for more....masochists or what? If you don't like it IGNORE IT.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6438d

I fear that AMJA will not desert this forum as he has found a kindred spirit in Tony Price. He ran away from W4 because he can't cope with the reasoned argument he gets on there from people who won't back down from an argument.

Susan Kelly ● 6437d

Meow!

Al Stuart ● 6437d

fear that AMJA will not desert this forum as he has found a kindred spirit in Tony Price.I don't know Tony Personally, but he is one of those who unlike you lot can see where this country is heading, but I would not attempt, as some of you do for for some of your clones to speak on his behalf. But to have an argument you have to utter something other than you are either a racist, sexist, ageist, or homophobic, you know the other hackneyed overused words don't you, being as you do so often yourself, just like the proverbial bad penny. You must go to bed at night turning the words over in your headsBut I am getting bored with you luvvies, who seem unable or unwilling, to show that what I have posted, now or in the past falls into the above categories.Being selective on what you all choose to criticise, but Not one of you have shown one grain of sympathy for our homeless, those who have lost their jobs, the elderly who have to make the decision whether to eat a nourishing meal or heat their homes.and apparently you have no opinion on the council in West Bromwich who have banned a St.Georges Day parade on the grounds of you guessed it as Racist. a person on here describes the parade as rampant Nationalism, which the Scots, Welsh and Irish have always celebrated without any of you lot saying it's racist That's another event that is being sent up the Swanee. What next......the cenotaph memorial parade. You lot have said nothing either about the taking down of the cross for a crematorium service....religious services argued about. Yes you lot have a lot to answer for.Finally just to repeat, no examples as yet? Try and think for yourself lady, and refrain from acting like a sheep.See you in Chiswick W4 when Hounslow rents a home for £12,480 month.OK? But will of course ask you luvvies for permission first.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6437d

He ran away from W4 because he can't cope with the reasoned argument he gets on there from people who won't back down from an argument Methinks you are telling porkies Ms Kelly, this lady (see below) who evidently wasn't discouraging me was she. Yes many disagreed, just like on here, but many could not believe it when I told them about cannabis farms found by the police, but had to eat their words when it was published later in the press.....but no apology! Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:AMJA is in a bad mood Forum Home Chiswick W4Posted by: Shelagh Passmore Date/Time: 29/08/08 17:46:00 At least the guy stands up for what he believes in. At least he's not complacent and lets self imposed injustices swarm over him so he just gives up and lays down, whimpering, in the detritus of human non-entity drones who just chant the mantra of the hour/decade which so many follow.She obviously knows about you lot in Ealing!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6437d

Posted by: Sheila Davies-Brock Date/Time: 05/07/07 14:34:00 Andrew Michael John Atkinson you are such a card! LOL! Victor Meldrew is alive and well and still hilarious. All these international reprobates you encounter – wow! A Vietnamese cannabis farm in Hounslow - Lordy, the mind boggles! Ms Kelly, the above for your information this was a post from someone who obviously was unaware, as you and some other like minded are, of what exactly is going on around them. I had witnessed at first hand the damage that this gang had done to a rented property in Hounslow. Every fixture and carpets had been stripped, and the walls lined with polythene, and the floor covered with peat. The electricity meter had been by-passed to enable the use of fans an light that were run 24/7. This posed serious problems, not only to the person who acted as a "gardener" in a small box room, but to the neighbours in and around the property. The estimated value of the crop was estimated to be £50k with the damage to the property assessed at £42k. Yes Ms Kelly, the above was an argument wasn't it......they may decide to rent a property near you in gentle Ealing, and your fellow sheep will be screaming their heads off and wringing their hands in despair.But the fact that 75% of those apprehended were Vietnamese will be a reason to ignore it! The lady concerned with the post was more concerned with belittling me with her silly remarks, rather than suggesting a way to prevent the proliferation of these farms. Not a mention unsurprisingly of any sympathy for the landlord, who had his property wrecked! (The source for my information, is from witnessing first hand, the police and the BBC News website) I would, if I were you Ms Kelly look up what constitutes an argument, most answers/responses on W$ were covered with the usual racist and all the other expected abuse. Just like on here devaluing the term racist, perhaps I have got it wrong and people really don't care or mind?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6437d

I think Michael Atkinson could do with some support on this forum. I believe he feels passionately about the degree of change he has seen over the years in his street, his town, his country - his home. I agree with many of his opinions, although not always his way of portraying them. Things of course cannot not stay the same and everything needs to evolve and move forward but I do believe, as he does, that things are now out of control. Ealing itself has changed from a gentle, nice area to a crowded, dirty, depressed place to live. Why should I feel happy to see that happen. I would not wish to become involved in such personal emails and am rather shocked by the insults exchanged; but everyone is entitled to their point of view and Mr Atkinson certainly sometimes expresses my point of view and the view of many people I know. It seems a somewhat one-sided argument at the moment.

Lesley Thomas ● 6437d

Thanks for your support Lesley, thank goodness somebody else has got their eyes open, and not put off by the liberal left and thei constant harping about racism.I’m waiting for one of them to show some compassion and care to the old folk, and the millions waiting for homes..but I can dream can’t I? We have to also fight back to prevent this lot wanting to ban everything British (English) that they believe offends someone or other!Susan Kelly wrote, referring to me.1)He ran away from W4 because he can't cope with the reasoned argument he gets on there from people who won't back down from an argument.This is one of the acolytes of the Ealing mafia who throws in her opinions about, and is another one who will not or cannot answer a straight question. I have asked her to comment on a posting, and asked if she thought the individual concerned was putting up an argument, again silence from her2)I fear that AMJA will not desert this forum as he has found a kindred spirit in Tony Price.What she is saying is that somebody, who also has his eyes open and happens to agree with me, she has to refer to them as a kindred spirit, what she/they of the liberal left want, is to isolate anyone they disagree with. I won’t mention her kindred spirits. Graham Weeks contributions…very adult?1) Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before.2)Let’s face it. Everyone who disagrees with you is a luvvie and that is just about everyone in this forum. You've got your needle stuck and most of us are tired of the monotonous sound.This one sets himself as a spokesman (one of many!) for the whole of the forumBy Deja Moo, this is a typical schoolboy answer. Do you notice that he is very reluctant like many of his cohorts, to give any examples of my indiscretions? He/they will not say exactly what they disagree with. Not one of them has defined what is racist and why…now is the chance? Penny Crockers contribution1) I'm not sure rampant Nationalism is too high in our minds...hence lack of response to St George's day. You may not like it Mr A but it seems to be the case.It would seem that we can celebrate St.David’s Day, St. Patrick’s Day, and St.Andrew’s Day……..but mention St,Georges Day that West Bromwich Council has banned as racist, and she says “I'm not sure rampant Nationalism is too high in our minds”...This lot will want the cenotaph ceremony banned next I fear, I am sure that they will think of some reason to do so.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6436d

The tone of the arguments may well be the reason that others feel less inclined to contribute to this debate.Whatever DID happen to gentle Ealing?

Jean F Fernandez ● 6436d

looks like a pretty long thread to me.

Al Stuart ● 6436d

About right Lesley.I don't agree with everything he says,but I do agree with the gist of a fair bit of it like millions of others,no doubt.The chattering classes will always blather on until everything we have grafted for generations to build is dismantled in the name of diversity and tolerance,whilst a lot of those who they support take right liberties with our generosity and accepyance.Long may he rail!

Keith Iddon ● 6436d

Exactly JeanThe veracity,the continual bombardment of the same old views.We've heard it,those that feel the same as AJMA don't need further conversion,those that don't wont convert.The question,the reply,the instant accusation that the respondent must be a Left wing liberal luvvie that needs to grow up, this without knowing anything at all about the respondent. The temperature rises and rises,a bit more of Gentle Ealing is eroded.I think probably most Ealing residents including incomers know that unabated immigration can't continue unchecked,that's for Governments to solve,not AJMA and his posse. I get the feeling that both AJMA and Tony Price-Mitty waken each morning to sift through the Daily Cat litter to find a juicy story about immigrants,but better still "illegal" immigrants,totaly ignoring the crimes of ,as they put it "us indiges". AJMA is constantly accusing us people who don't like him,that we don't comment on this or that,his pet subject for the day, replies are not obligatory Mr.A. I noticed that you didn't comment on the Baby P case,do you support childbeaters? Also no comment on the white youths that stormed an Asian wedding,in your own town Brentford do you support such things Mr A?No..Too much too often,no reasoned logic,hatred and the personal need for arguement.To use one of his most bandied phrases,"Your a nice person Mr A aren't you?"To Mr.A's bile duct I'd like to say sorry,I fear this is yet another day when you'll be called on for stirling service.

Tony Wood ● 6436d

Whilst I agre the thread may be long but the tone therein may well put some posters off because it would appear to be so very one-sided. I guess many are not in favour of the name calling that goes on!However, in the real world I am certain that AMJA has a lot of support and many would agree that he is simply relating the truth of what is happening to our society today.The government does seem to have a lot to answer for IMHO with immigration at an all time high, whether due to legal or illegal visitors to these shores. The whole situation appears to be out of control at a time when there are enormous financial strains on the economy.The traditions we hold dear it would appear are no longer considered important as far as those in authority are concerned. Those in government are so afraid of upsetting the minority that the wishes of the majority are simply ignored.It is OK to celebrate St Patrick's day, St.David's day and so on but not St.George's day? I am Welsh/Irish and even I think this is unfair!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6436d

Whatever DID happen to gentle Ealing?Had you not noticed........it's been taken over. The trouble is, there is NO debate. at the point of repeating myself, I wish that those who want to ban everything, would just for once say what they object to, is it the substance or just the tone?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6436d

The veracity,the continual bombardment of the same old views.We've heard it,those that feel the same as AJMA don't need further conversion,those that don't wont convert.For someone who seems to be put out by my posts, you certainly are a devil for punishment aren't you. You may well have heard it all before, but you will keep hearing it until some of you wake up and see what is happening, you may well, as it has now become patently obvious, wish to sit on your backside while we descend deeper into the mire. I'm not after converts, just making a wake up call!I don't know Ken Livingstone for example but I know from his views and opinions that he is from the left bordering on communism.......so you see you don't have to know the respondent personally, just as you don't know me.You said"I think probably most Ealing residents including incomers know that unabated immigration can't continue unchecked,that's for Governments to solve, not AJMA and his posse." Just a small point in passing, its AMJA not AJMA OK? I know you like accuracy!But what are you doing about solving it, the government has certainly lost the plot and they don't even know how many exactly are here illegally, our borders are leaking like a sieve, and when any are caught, they just utter, not Abracadabra, but a shorter and much more effective one......Asylum, and lo and behold they are allowed to stay, and in some instances let out of detention to disappear in to the black economy. This is costing us, YOU and ME millions, but you don't seem to mind your taxes being frittered away on fat cat lawyers, and exorbitant rents to house anyone who turns up on our shores (£12,480 per month remember) the indigs can wait in the queue, which when I comment on/protest about, sends you and your ilk into a frenzy! Get a grip! Charity begins at home......or does it? Another Wood gem"AJMA is constantly accusing us people who don't like him,that we don't comment on this or that,his pet subject for the day, replies are not obligatory Mr.A. I noticed that you didn't comment on the Baby P case,do you support childbeaters?" Is it me you don't like, I thought you had to KNOW someone first, didn't you say I should not comment while not knowing the person saying as below:-"without knowing anything at all about the respondent", You also said"Also no comment on the white youths that stormed an Asian wedding,in your own town Brentford do you support such things Mr A?"Wrong yet again..I don't live in Brentford, and no I don't support violence from any race or group towards another,strange that you don't mention operation Trident, and it wasn't whites either, who killed 52 people by placing a bomb on their train was it, but correct me if I am wrong, did you comment on it? Get your facts right, when you say I live in Brentford..I don't, but that will not deter you from saying it will it?As regards to your point about "indig" criminals, I have on many occasions suggested that prison is too soft, with people like you harping on about their Human Rights, and sod the victims mentality. No TV's or games in their cells, only if they have been bought by their own labours.and after recompense is paid to their victims IMO, they are there a) for punishment and justice for the victim, and b) for an attempt to rehabilitate them. A sign should also go up on every prison entrance as well, stating that "YOU ARE NOT HERE BY INVITATION" I will treat your comment about child beaters, with the contempt it deserves, this from a man who talks about abusive comments...people in glass houses springs to mind!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6436d

Some more "polite quotes" from Mr Tony Wood,he who writes about "Gentle Ealing" and the verbal abuse taking place on this forum.but it's acceptable for him though...seems fair!"The question,the reply,the instant accusation that the respondent must be a Left wing liberal luvvie that needs to grow up, this without knowing anything at all about the respondent. The temperature rises and rises,a bit more of Gentle Ealing is eroded.""Take no notice George,he gets like this when his brain cells collide,a bit like a very tiny Hadron collider,only more noise emanates."

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6436d

Sorry about getting your initials in the wrong order MAJA,I'll try harder."Is it me you don't like, I thought you had to KNOW someone first, didn't you say I should not comment while not knowing the person "Well you answer that perfectly well yourself,from the same post:-"I don't know Ken Livingstone for example but I know from his views and opinions that he is from the left bordering on communism.......so you see you don't have to know the respondent personally, just as you don't know me."Oh no not that house again! I've said previously it's totally wrong, My Mum had 5 children,we lived perfectly well in a three bedroom house,there were only four at home at any one time,so yes it was wrong,but by goodness haven't you made a meal of it. What do you want other Forum users to do about it,vote Labour at the next council elections???Try lobbying your MP in "HOUNSLOW",that wont do any good but it'll keep you busy.I'll ignore all the other tosh,except the bit about my Abuse,yes I apologise for hurling abuse at you Jock, on reflection I can see that it was me that started all the abuse wasn't it????

Tony Wood ● 6436d

Hands up..Who wants to ban everything?

Tony Wood ● 6436d

What do you want other Forum users to do about it,vote Labour at the next council elections???Try lobbying your MP in "HOUNSLOW",that wont do any good but it'll keep you busy.More to the point, what will YOU be doing? We have all guessed it..... nothing, except whine about everyone else who does so. And as regards voting Labour.....no thanks they have ballsed up the country already, but you wouldn't have noticed that would you Mr woodenhead, how appropriate that name is, it also describes what that round empty thing perched on your shoulders is made of!"I'll ignore all the other tosh,except the bit about my Abuse,yes I apologise for hurling abuse at you Jock, on reflection I can see that it was me that started all the abuse wasn't it???? In a nut shell Yes, but you are too thick to realise it Tone?"How convenient to say you will icnore all the other "tosh" 52 people being killed is Tosh is it..that says it all about where you are coming from! Tell me the first time I offered abuse.........Jock? I will leave others to work that one out.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6436d

"I can't see anything wrong there,did I get a word wrong or something?"Being blind to anything to do with common sense, is no excuse for being an idiot as well.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6436d

"Hands up..Who wants to ban everything?"If it's anything to do with Englishness, it's culture, traditions and putting them ahead of the queue for once, no doubt you will of course be up the front. Silly question really, we knew the answer before you asked it, silly boy!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6436d

You're right about there being no debate, AMJA, because you don't debate. You just state your prejudices and then dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as a 'luvvie'.

Susan Kelly ● 6435d

"You're right about there being no debate, AMJA, because you don't debate. You just state your prejudices and then dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as a 'luvvie'."Calling someone racist, or being prejudiced is, as you well know is not a debate. And would you place on here ( I have asked many times before)exactly where and how I state my prejudices, I would indeed be eternally grateful. And telling lies, like the W4 story you told does nothing to enhance your credibility. Now be a good girl and go away and look up the word debate......Thus far, you or anyone else cannot or are unwilling to give an opinion on what I have said....one more time, what is prejudiced or racist,just cut and paste just one example....blimey that's simple enough isn't it? please don't mention St. Georges Day being racist though or as one of your luvvie pals said is rampant nationalism....that is real prejudice for you. Now don't forget "Block-copy and paste" easy peasy....by tomorrow if possible please, or forever hold your peace. Fair enough madam? I don't mind or care whether you agree with me or or not but try and give specifics!Then we will all know what you are objecting to!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6435d

Re As you may have noticed, the liberal left want to stop any discussion on it.....frightening!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I honestly can't understand why some so persistently defend the immigrants and denigrate those who object to mass immigration, be they asylum seekers ( 98% bogus ), illegal immigrants or even legal ones. The FACT is what was once the Queen of the Suburbs has been changed beyond recognition because of the change in the population, so will someone please say in what ways our once beloved Borough has been improved.

Tony Price ● 6435d

cheaper plumbers?

Al Stuart ● 6435d

Re he can't cope with the reasoned argument he gets on there from people who won't back down from an argument xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx repeat them on here then, let's see the frightening reasoned arguments, something we have been awaiting but ain't yet got

Tony Price ● 6435d

Re But the fact that 75% of those apprehended were Vietnamese will be a reason to ignore it! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx it seems to be a " speciality " of theirs. Most of the cannabis farms, you know , the ones that don't exist but which have been found all over London and it's environs, are nearly always run by persons from that country. My East African Indian newsagents had the same done in their rented out house in Feltham, ruined it. They ain't very happy, being the anti asylum seekers they are! They constantly complain re how Ealing has been so badly changed since they first came here.

Tony Price ● 6435d

Re Mr Atkinson certainly sometimes expresses my point of view and the view of many people I know. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Hear hear, I endorse that completely, and for some to wish to leave this Forum because of these truths being aired I find unbelievable, in fact pathetic. As far as I am concerned, we are fighting for our survival, in all ways. So if anyone condemns that, it makes me wonder why and what drives them.

Tony Price ● 6435d

Re We have to also fight back to prevent this lot wanting to ban everything British (English) that they believe offends someone or other! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx yes, and has anyone noticed that the person who so virulently started this thread, ain't squeaked since, nary a word. Probably building up to a blinder?

Tony Price ● 6435d

Re Whatever DID happen to gentle Ealing? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx got swallowed up in the ethnic mists

Tony Price ● 6435d

TonyQuite right of course, but they will never be convinced and the evidence is staring them in their faces. Have you noticed, as I am sure you and others have, that like politicians, they will not under any circumstances answer a direct question... but a certain Penny Crocker did at least show her liberal left credentials, by suggesting that St.Georges Day is, "a rampant nationalist" celebration, but true to form, no mention of the Irish, who are proud of their country, as do the Welsh and Scots, and celebrate their day without comment from the luvvies. Nigel Dale has said that he is ashamed to be British, when I hear this, I am also ashamed of him and to be English, when these people toss away any celebration that refer to our culture and traditions, also notice he in particular refers to himself as British, not English, Welsh, Scottish, or Irish? They also say that Gerry doesn't like the Tone on here, and I wonder if perhaps it is someone called Wood, and he would rather hear about Nigels Penguin, or the cat "mew mew mopsy wopsy." Open the cage, last person leaving please turn off the lights!!!!!!!!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6435d

SusanDo you recall this little gem of yours? You and others have berated me for criticising the £12,480 paid to an Afghan family, but at the same time you protest about this woman (quite rightly, as is your right!) Is it that you object on the one hand to Pay one (Karen Matthews)I am a racist. But just because I feel the same way, not only about this woman, but the Afghan woman as well. You seem to not mind the vast payments paid to one, but say nothing on the other who got peanuts by comparison! (But still I agree it's a disgraceful abuse of the benefit system) unlike you do.....at least for one of them anyway, while I object to both!You Said "I would vote for a crack-down on people like Karen Matthews who breed seven fatherless kids and expect us all to pay for them."Perhaps you may be willing to debate why, you apparently don't mind paying for one and not the other (or so it would seem to me!) This Afghan woman and her feckless eldest son has six other children.....where is the father and what is he contributibg to them... one wonders?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6435d

' Liberty is not about allowing, driving around after drinking and or taking illegal drugs, driving without Insurance, Road Tax, MoT, or a driving licence. If one of these people were to damage you car, kill or maim you or a member of your family, you would be screaming from the rooftops "Where were the police?" You certainly have some strange ideas about liberty don't you? Think about what exactly you mean by liberty in this context. And an example of what it is that you will label as racist in any post I have made.'My idea of liberty is to drive around sober, taxed and insured and not stopped by Plod. Very simple. I have never accused you of racism only monotony.

Graham Weeks ● 6434d

oh dear will this ever end?

Al Stuart ● 6434d

Re oh dear will this ever end? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx what, Al ?

Tony Price ● 6434d

this thread. It goes round and round in circles!

Al Stuart ● 6434d

Re It goes round and round in circles! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wor(l)d without end?.

Tony Price ● 6434d

My idea of liberty is to drive around sober, taxed and insured and not stopped by Plod. Very simple. Sadly others don't feel the same way as you apparently do.Keep up, did you not hear of the family of six wiped out by a driver looking at his laptop, drivers using their mobiles, in spite of the dangers. Yes I suppose in your eyes the abuses I have spoken about now and in the past, are to the brainless,.............monotonous, perhaps that's the reason society has broken down, and we are being taken for mugs. I was going to mention the travellers who have been compensated for being moved off from an illegal site...and lo and behold had £2,000k spent on purpose built bungalows, but kind hearted liberty loving as you may be......you won't bat an eyelid, you are either unconcerned about paying tax to the feckless, or you don't pay any at all! which is it? If it is monotonous, why on earth do you bother either to read it or comment on it.....bored perhaps?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6434d

AMJA said "you are either unconcerned about paying tax to the feckless"What exactly would you propose as a solution to the feckless members of our society? Let them starve in a gutter? Put them all in front of a firing squad? All civilised societies use a portion of taxes to take care of their poor and disadvantaged, and a small minority of society will take advantage of government loopholes to obtain benefits they are perhaps not entitled to. It is up to government to police this and ensure the laws are not an ass. Anyone who has to go cap in hand for benefits maybe deserves pity as it doesn't appear to be a very fulfilling lifestyle. And a drop in the ocean compared with the "expenses" lifestyles of our elected government!

S. D. Brock ● 6434d

'you are either unconcerned about paying tax to the feckless, or you don't pay any at all! 'My postings show the former suppostition to be untrue and I pay too much for their support.What I really object to in your postings is your abuse of those who do not agree with you. Often I do agree with you.When you have no basis for argument, abuse the plaintiff.--Cicero, 106 -- 43 B.C.But I may shut up.Calumnities are best answered with silence. -- Samuel Johnson

Graham Weeks ● 6434d

St George's day & flag has ended up with unpleasant nationalist associations. Unpleasant insofar as they are not the same as the Welsh or Scottish nationalism (with clear focus on self-governing - i.e. gaining something) but more about defining Englishness as ridding England of something (or some people). There are traditions of celebrations of nationality in many countries - but no tradition in England. St George's day mostly passed unnoticed (note - as is St Andrews day in Scotland). This means if we try to make St George's day become an event it will be a little artificial. We would be making up a celebration of culture & traditions - a new event to mark traditions? That feels a bit strange.The extreme nationalists (as in the racist, the right wing type) have long linked the St George flag and concept to their cause. Others have tried to re-establish St George's day as being of the nation in its broadest sense - but it is a long way from being perceived as St Patrick's day or like Burn's Night. It is still very much tainted by the wrong concepts of nationalism.Would a St George's day parade be a positive move? Perhaps the risk of the parade being overrun by the racist right is quite high. In this case that would end up being a step backward for the cause of St George an untainted emblem of England. Imagine all those TV images of thugs waving the flag and it being just like worst aspects of an Orange march - but in red and white. That would be a terrible step back. So you read "St George's day parade banned" and think - all those leftie idiots. I read it and think - I wonder if there was more to it than that? I wonder if the ban was actually a way of saving the flag and the day from the worst sort of events?

Alan Clark ● 6434d

Re Anyone who has to go cap in hand for benefits maybe deserves pity as it doesn't appear to be a very fulfilling lifestyle xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx what a load of rubbish ( you are judging the situation from lifestyle etc ). A good part of those on bens have no intention of doing anything but and set out to screw as much as they can from we tax-payers. Why do you think there special hotlines set up to shop people. If I had my way, all bens would be stopped after 6 months notice and only those who genuinely deserve / need them would be paid, and more handsomely than they are now. Explain why there are, despite years of the best efforts of the N H S, millions of supposed disabled persons in this country, vastly more than there ever have been. And hardly anyone from outwith this country would get any bens, then see the immigrants' numbers drop.

Tony Price ● 6434d

Post Modernist!

Tony Wood ● 6434d

TP said "If I had my way, all bens would be stopped after 6 months notice and only those who genuinely deserve / need them would be paid"And how would YOU decide who the genuinely deserving are and who is/is not disabled? Weigh them maybe, or make them dance? We have democratically elected representatives and experiencied medics who have difficulty with those definitions and decisions. You also appear to think that ALL immigrants come here to get benefits when this is blatantly untrue - the vast majority want to work and make a better life for their families, and who can begrudge them that opportunity. Where would our NHS, our police force, our post offices, our restaurants, our hotels, our theatres, our building programmes be without immigrant labour? I hope you don't need a doctor, a dentist or a hospital consultant anytime soon. You'd have to swallow your bile about immigrants pretty quickly. With the current aging population, this country needs immigrant labour for their income tax input to support the existing pension commitments of the aging population. This is 2009 for goodness sake, not the times of the knuckle dragging neantherthal. (Though it appears there are still a few dinosaurs left- and the sooner they become extinct, the better!)

S. D. Brock ● 6433d

Re And how would YOU decide who the genuinely deserving are and who is/is not disabled xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx they would have to be assessed by 3 non connected specialists, and when I say non-connected, I mean also not by race or religion. Several years ago I had a neighbour who hailed fron Iraq since 1982? and when the Iran /Iraq war broke out, despite the fact he was a trainee army medic, he " deserted " and applied for asylum here, which he seemingly got, all long before I knew him. He was perfectly able, had a wife and house in Tooting who and which he decided to leave ( masses of cats apparently )and persuaded Ealing to pay for him to live in private rented accomodation ( how he managed that I don't know ) and 2 other Iraqis lived with him. The " doctor " had a car and went off to work in a hospital de temps en temp and otherwise led a normal capacitated existence. Then he told Ealing Council another lie, that his 7 yr old daughter stayed with him 3 nights a week, which apparently meant ALL the then £900 monthly rent the Council had to pay, instead of the hitherto £600. Who advised him re that wheeze may one ask. After several months he put to flight and it transpired he was on all sorts of bens imaginable and had never worked in all the years he had been here. So how was he able to a " arrange " that, WHO signed the disability certs, 'cos there certainly wasn't anything wrong with him. I subsequently learned he divorced his wife in Tooting, went to Syria and found another one, Iraqi, and brought her back here, is now again living in Perivale in " Ealing ratepayer " supplied accomodation with 2 children he sired with the new wife. Still doesn't work, of course, perish the thought. The rest of your post does not warrant attention and contains the usual personal abuse so beloved by certain types.

Tony Price ● 6433d

If what you say about your neighbour is true, (which given the amount of innate prejudice and conjecture you've offered as evidence,I doubt) - then it is the responsibility of those who make the laws which can be broken by the disreputable; there will always be a minority of dishonest people who take advantage of loopholes. It is up to our democratically elected government to ensure the laws are watertight. Thank goodness it is not the decision of people with limited vision and extreme views.

S. D. Brock ● 6433d

Good bye England.......St George, Patron Saint of ScoutingOn the Sunday nearest to 23 April, scouts and guides throughout England parade through high streets and attend a special St George's Day service at their local church.Not if the bloody luvvies have anything to do with it they won't. I suspect the riot police will be in attendance though, to prevent them rioting or offending some left wing anti- English group, who will bleat that it offends some ethnic group or other! Doesn't it want to make you puke?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6433d

Re (which given the amount of innate prejudice and conjecture you've offered as evidence,I doubt) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx in a roundabout way you are calling me a liar but it is / was true, as I saw the Bens letters after he left. As to the stupid reference to minority, you haven't answered the point re huge increase in the " disabled / so unwell unable to work " or those getting pregnant so as to get a house syndrome. Your rose tinted specs are causing you to fail abysmally. None so blind as them that won't see, a saying that fits you to a T.

Tony Price ● 6433d

Jolly good for the scouts. Now, its not clear from your post whether the banned parade is the same as the scout parade. Is it really this parade that you talked about being banned? Really? Was there nothing else - solely and exclusively a scout march to the church for a sing song? If so, then you are correct in judging this to be pointless and over reactionary. I've no problem agreeing with that.(perhaps I'd advise using less of the bold letters though - its the equivalent of green ink - makes you look like a nutter)

Alan Clark ● 6433d

Unfortunately you don't appear to have the ability or understanding to debate a subject, you just rant on with your singular view and your dangerous lack of knowledge, and don't address any of the issues. Both you and your fellow Mr. Toad sink to silliness when you are unable to debate logically; and though you both profess to be patriotic "Englishmen", neither of you display any of the typical Christian English qualities of fairmindedness, good manners and charity to fellow men. A Britain populated exclusively by gentlemen of your ilk would be a gloomy prospect.

S. D. Brock ● 6433d

Messrs Atkinson and Price - a suggestion - either sandwich board up and down Oxford Street - or large soapbox,Sundays, Hyde Park corner for the amusement of tourists. You'd fit right in.

S. D. Brock ● 6433d

And in the interest of equality, perhaps you may now acknowledge that Cannabis farms do in fact exist. Perhaps you could appear as a comedian at one of the less well known theatres. Your motto "If you cannot find an argument, poke fun" Yes you are a clever girl!Posted by: Sheila Davies-Brock Date/Time: 05/07/07 14:34:00 Andrew Michael John Atkinson you are such a card! LOL! Victor Meldrew is alive and well and still hilarious. All these international reprobates you encounter – wow! A Vietnamese cannabis farm in Hounslow - Lordy, the mind boggles! This was written to impress the other luvvies was it?Perhaps in your little mind they are a figment of mine and everybody Else's imagination. But then again, being a liberal luvvie one should not expect you all to see what is going on around you........or as I have always suspected not caring, still at least you are predictable.Any of you care to comment, on the most dangerous alleged terrorist Abu Qatada, who is about to be deported back to Jordan. The luvvies will be out in force no doubt demanding that he stays here.........Wait for it, his lawyers, paid for by US, are taking his case to the court of Human Rights in Europe..........what a farce! Courtesy of the luvvies!Meanwhile what about the Human Rights of the 6 family members wiped out by a lunatic on the motorway. Sentenced to 3 years in prison.....now that is what I call justice!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6433d

You do seem to like the sound of your own voice AMJA. In fact some of your postings could be considered to be as inflammatory as Ifty. Whilst some points may be fair, you are in fact creating more damage to the way of life you are trying to protect.

J Smith ● 6433d

Re A Britain populated exclusively by gentlemen of your ilk would be a gloomy prospect. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx well at least it would be a prospect and one with a future whereas your line of stupidity is nowt but a sore on the backside of Gentle Ealing designed to ensure our sure disappearance into the ethnic mists. Why you peddle such anti English anti white European twoddle beggars belief. The effects of your beliefs are plain for all to see. I suggest you look over your rose tinted pince-nez and not through them

Tony Price ● 6433d

Jolly good for the scouts.No it is not exclusively for scouts and guides, also on parade will be ex-servicemen and their organisations......but no doubt someone or other will suggest it is glorifying war, or it is offensive to middle eastern ethnic minorities.The reason I emboldened sentences, is to highlight something that is usually ignored by anybody responding to it. For example."When are one of you going to reply with an answer to "What is it that I should not specifically post about"? You must have seen the response by now of the intellectual Sheila Davies-Brock, who seems to be unaware of what these criminal gangs are up to. But she would rather make smart arse remarks in preference to giving an opinion on whether she believes that a) they do exist and b) If they do, what threat do they pose to people close by, and c)Has she any sympathy for the landlord of the property, who will have to repair the damage. Not too difficult is it? Yes I am a nutter, for trying to warn and convince people of the dangers of these cannabis farms....but obviously, as I have just demonstrated this woman just doesn't care! Sad or not?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6433d

Whilst some points may be fair, you are in fact creating more damage to the way of life you are trying to protect.With respect, how exactly am I doing that. Yes I have responded in kind to some of the insults and abuse. Just look at the response of a certain Sheila Davies - Brock, which I have reproduced on this thread. This was her reply to a very serious problem that we are all facing, not just smoking skunk (that is another subject!) but the danger they pose to folks nearby. She may not care, but I and many others do...OK?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6433d

I was not being insulting or abusive at all, I was doing what we are all entitled to do, giving an opinion. I suggest that you too are viewing things through rose tinted glasses. I am not saying that the way things are at the moment are as they should be, am saying that you are only adding fuel to the fire and this is a dangerous thing.

J Smith ● 6433d

I was not being insulting or abusive at all, I was doing what we are all entitled to do, giving an opinion. I suggest that you too are viewing things through rose tinted glasses. Mr StoneWhere have I said that YOU were abusive or insulting, did I not start my reply with "with respect"? And with equal respect what am I viewing things through rose tinted glasses, I am puzzled by this.give me an example please?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6433d

For the attention of Ms Shirley Davies-Brock, and others of her ilk, who find it, as she does "hilarious read this, and tell me that it should be looked on as a joke? Courtesy of the BBC website.Cannabis farms uncovered 'treble' Police cannabis raid The number of cannabis farms being found by police has trebled over the last two years, according to a report. Charity DrugScope said 1,500 cannabis farms were found in London alone in the past two years, compared with around 500 in the previous two years. Its magazine Druglink said over 60% of cannabis sold in the UK was grown here, compared with 11% 10 years ago. The charity said analysis of police raids showed up to 75% of cannabis farms were run by Vietnamese gangs. In the last 12 months, Vietnamese-run cannabis farms have been found in London, Birmingham, south Wales, the North East, Yorkshire and East Anglia, DrugScope added. Residential properties An average of 400 plants are recovered in a police raid, as officers continue to target farms in residential and commercial properties. In London, where the class C drug is worth £100m a year, the Metropolitan Police says it has closed down two to three factories a day and destroyed 1.5 tonnes of cannabis a week over the past 18 months. Most of the farms are in London but DrugScope said others have been raided as far afield as Glasgow, Birmingham, East Anglia, south Wales, the North East and Yorkshire

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6433d

You've gone off again with the luvvie nonsense. Its an extremely flawed approach to gaiing support for your views as all you are doing is creating a ground swell of people who increasingly resent this name calling. It completely fails to open up discussion or any reasoned arguments.Cannibas farms - yup, they exist. No doubt run by people of many nations. Perhaps there are a few people who do not believe this ... but to tar all 'luvvies' with refuting these facts seems a bit strong.Human rights - they are important (albeit prone to abuse). Lawyers on the other hand ... I doubt if they would call themselves luvvies. They will of course take advantage of any loop hole or gap in legislation that will allow them to post a few fees (especially if there is a willing sponsor in the shape of the US). Think less luvvie and more shark.Convicted of careless driving? That was the judgement of the jury - who will have had guidance in making this judgement. The judge then sets the penalty accordingly. If this case had happened just months earlier this judgement would not have carried a jail sentence. So what exactly is the role of the luvvie in all of this?So we've got cannibas farms, lawyers and juries. And you group the lot together under the umbrella of " the luvvie's are to blame". Isn't this all a bit too simplistic?Life is more complex than that and the rest of us stop to consider things a bit more. What you are doing is simply grouping everything you personally disagree with and plonking the blame at a group you alone define. Not insightful, not helpful, not clever. All that this approach succeeds in doing is to lump more and more people into the bucket of 'luvvie'. And this is more and more people who will think you have lost the plot.

Alan Clark ● 6433d

You should post about anything you want to - preferably local issues (as opposed to global / national issues that might have some impact locally) - but, actualy, anything you fancy.Just politely please. I can't speak for Sheila's views on whether criminal gangs and cannabis farms exist. Or how great a threat they pose.I did however sense that she was more trying to poke fun at you rather than deny the existence or threat of anything. And fair enough given that you do have a tendency to set yourself up marvellously well for fun poking...

Alan Clark ● 6433d

Isn't it strange that you always, without fail focus on my faults. And no! I am not looking for support for any cause. Did you not have a comment to make on Madam Sheila Davies-Brock's contribution to a post that I had made regarding cannabis farms. I'm expected to roll over and take all the abuse that is thrown at me. Or is her post acceptable or not. I don't roll over that easy.Convicted of careless driving? That was the judgement of the jury - who will have had guidance in making this judgement. The judge then sets the penalty accordingly. If this case had happened just months earlier this judgement would not have carried a jail sentence.I think this judge misguided the jury, and he is a disgrace to justice for the relatives, we should all be out demonstrating on the streets. A whole family of six wiped out, because this idiot was looking down at his laptop, if that's not dangerous I don't know what is!You saidNot insightful, not helpful, not clever.Does that not equally apply again to Ms Sheila Davies-Brock, if not why not? Not to mention many others."If this case had happened just months earlier this judgement would not have carried a jail sentence." Just goes to show what value is placed on human life.....kill 6 get 3 years.....kill no one and steal 2.6 million get 30 years. And we have the brass neck to boast about British Justice!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6432d

Re Messrs Atkinson and Price - a suggestion - either sandwich board up and down Oxford Street - or large soapbox,Sundays, Hyde Park corner for the amusement of tourists. You'd fit right in. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx yet another offensive posting from this stable and which one must add is historically seen as the last resort of the scoundrel. Personal abuse reflects more on the assailant than the assailed.

Tony Price ● 6432d

Re Posted by: Sheila Davies-Brock Date/Time: 05/07/07 14:34:00 Andrew Michael John Atkinson you are such a card! LOL! Victor Meldrew is alive and well and still hilarious. All these international reprobates you encounter – wow! A Vietnamese cannabis farm in Hounslow - Lordy, the mind boggles xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx the resorting to personal abuse by some goes back some time and by now is a well established characteristic, but experience in that field does not excuse it , plus the patent lack of knowledge is also no excuse for resorting to personal abuse. Cannabis " farms " have been uncovered all over London and it's environs for some time. I may have missed it, but has the hurler of the abuse apologised for having made such a gaff.

Tony Price ● 6432d

Re but the danger they pose to folks nearby. She may not care, but I and many others do...OK? xxxxxxxxxxxx you must bear in mind Michael some are inhibited by their own ignorance of facts and which when coupled with a fair dose of preferring all things " imported " does rather put them at a distinct disadvantage vis a vis persons who have their feet more on the ground. I appreciate ignorance is no defence in law but one must try to be " understanding ".

Tony Price ● 6432d

Re Charity DrugScope said 1,500 cannabis farms were found in London alone in the past two years, compared with around 500 in the previous two years. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx oh c'mon Michael, you don't expect S B-D to believe this do you. If even one does not exist, how on earth can 1500 in London ALONE exist, where we all know there are no farms at all. If the thought of only one by her own admission makes her mind boggle what do you think the thought of fifteen hundred will do. She may well think she is surrounded by the things.

Tony Price ● 6432d

What I'm doing is picking on your indiscriminate use of the term luvvie as an insult applied to anyone who disagrees with you. It is wrong and it is not clever.You are doing a fine job of highlighting the faults, and perceived faults, of others. Besides which I do not care to spend hours trawling back through posts to find out whether Shiela’s original statement was ‘there are no cannabis farms’ or ‘there are less than you make out’ or ‘they are not only run by Vietnamese’ or whatever. Its your argument with her. You've plenty of facts & figments at hand it seems.I just find your unpleasant use of the term luvvie as ridiculous and offensive. You must now include judges in this group based on your post above. Judges? Really?And since when are you surprised that crime against property has often been treated more harshly than crime against the individual? This has been going on for as long as there has been a criminal system. Way longer than the concept of luvvie was invented. Drop the term luvvie and stick to arguing the case.

Alan Clark ● 6432d

Sorry, but luvvie is not half as insulting as some of the abuse hurled at me, which I find to be offensive. You have not, correct me if I am wrong, make the same response to anyone who has levelled their abuse at me, surely if it's wrong for me, then by the same token it must be wrong for everyone. I have often said if anyone finds what I post to be offensive, either say what it is EXACTLY, that is offensive. But all of the anti AMJA luvvie brigade are unable/unwilling to do so.........Why? There are a few who have called me a bigot, and then proceed to reply in a bigoted manner..OK for one side, but not the other, is that it?Luvvie as we all know, is an actor who behaves to other people in a very friendly way, that is not sincere.I have adopted it, at the same time adapting it to describe those from the left, and who are IMO responsible for many of the ills that have infected our way of life.You also said:-"What I'm doing is picking on your indiscriminate use of the term luvvie as an insult applied to anyone who disagrees with you. It is wrong and it is not clever."I am doing the same with the word racist, sexist,Intolerant and ageist, these are all used with monotonous regularity, whenever asylum,immigration,illegalsBritish jobs for the British is discussed.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6432d

fortunately you don't appear to have the ability or understanding to debate a subject, you just rant on with your singular view and your dangerous lack of knowledge, and don't address any of the issues. Both you and your fellow Mr. Toad sink to silliness when you are unable to debate logically; and though you both profess to be patriotic "Englishmen". Dear Ms Sheila Davies—Brock your hypocrisy is, to say the least breathtaking" Below is something that you posted on the W4 forum…..remember? This typifies the hypocrisy you show, when criticising me/us. This is what you call addressing the issues, are you also demonstrating your lack of knowledge of cannabis farms…..sinking to silliness? I suggest you review your post again……Pot-kettle springs to mind. I challenge you to justify this W4 post…accept or hide?Posted by: Sheila Davies-Brock Date/Time: 05/07/07 14:34:00 “Andrew Michael John Atkinson you are such a card! LOL! Victor Meldrew is alive and well and still hilarious. All these international reprobates you encounter – wow! A Vietnamese cannabis farm in Hounslow - Lordy, the mind boggles!”This is her example of “logical debate”

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6432d

Apologies for keeping this theme going on. I admit I've never really been that active on this board, but did drop off a while back to lurk about and keep an eye on what's happening. I must admit, like others have suggested on this board, it has got depressing recently.Onto Andrew Atkinson. On another thread, he appeared to get upset at others suggesting racism in his postings, and has actively requested his accusors evidance.I've recently taken time to look through the threads Andrew has started and have been commented on in the past year. These threads include: House to let, British jobs for British People, Nigels Gems of Wisdom, and most recently For the Luvvies.I had a look through the thread, and tried to get a basic concept of what Andrews postings in these threads suggested. My feelings of his posts within these showed:36 messages which included critisism's of either foreign people, or ethnic minorty Brits.1 message which included positive comments of either foreign people or ethnic minority Brits1 message which included critisism of White BritsAssuming Andrew takes time to read my question, given my feelings to the tones of your postings, can you understand why people have taken such an opinion of you?At the same time, I also noticed 21 postings which included either aggressive or insulting posts directed at other members of the board.The reason I bring this last comment up, is that reading the boards Code of Conduct, the first code says "This site encourages everyone to treat each other with mutual respect. Do not use the Forum to threaten, harass, stalk, or abuse others participating in the Forum. Refrain from all expressions of bigotry, racism, hatred, or obscenity."Now obviously it could be suggested that by only counting Andrews comments in threads he's started, I maybe not getting a full picture of his opinions. So if it can be shown that the select group I read was not representative, I will endevour to revise my comments.Finally, I have one question for Andrew. In your argument with Penny Crocker, she brought up the idea that you were a Volunteer Policeman? I must admit to not having found the source of this suggestion. I saw on your earlier "House to Let" thread that both yourself and your wife are pensioners. I didn't realise that the police used pensioners as Volunteer Police. Have I just misunderstood the job?

James Lockwood ● 6431d

Finally, I have one question for Andrew. In your argument with Penny Crocker, she brought up the idea that you were a Volunteer Policeman? I must admit to not having found the source of this suggestion. I saw on your earlier "House to Let" thread that both yourself and your wife are pensioners. I didn't realise that the police used pensioners as Volunteer Police. Have I just misunderstood the job? Yes, but that is par for the course for you luvvies!My you are a busy bee, strange that you make no comment made on the W4 forum re Cannabis farms, which was a seriousa attempt to warn people of the threat that these paople pose.You must agreee apparently with Ms Shirley Davies-Brock who puts herself up as a comediene. Ms Crocker made a comment about being a volunteer for the police, si I would suggest that you read her remark and at least get it correct. When you do you will notice that it had no relevance to the topic. I take it none of them who harp on about racism and all of the other 'isms, are now going to present your evidence to both the moderators and the police.........will you?These threads include: House to let, British jobs for British People, Nigels Gems of Wisdom, and most recently For the Luvvies."I had a look through the thread, and tried to get a basic concept of what Andrews postings in these threads suggested." To save you the trouble, racism is perpetrated in the allocating of a house to a newly arrived family in preference to Brits, who have been placed in a queue, and are left in unsuitable housing,or worse still in bed and breakfast "hotels", can I take it that you are housed in reasonable housing? Just in case you don't understand the meaning of racism"Discrimination or prejudice based on race." Isn't this what Ealing Council have done, in housing an Afghan family, whilst leaving others who probably have earned and have more of a right than they have (positive discrimination)I take it that you are also in employment, and not faced with the threat of redundancy or an Eastern European doing your job for less."36 messages which included critisism's of either foreign people, or ethnic minorty Brits.1 message which included positive comments of either foreign people or ethnic minority Brits1 message which included critisism of White Brits"IT'S NOT ALL BAD THEN?Perhaps you may now devote some of your valuable time to look up Ms Shirley-Davies-Brock post on cannabis. But then again you may have already done so and found it acceptable, so it won't come as a surprise will it?I sincerely hope that you have the bottle to take your comments to the moderators of the forum, and a letter to the police with all the evidence, and if they uphold your complaint I will accept their decision. Address your letter to The Borough commander at Hounslow Police station. I made this suggetion toa couple of equally obsessed luvvies, but it looks as though they bottled it.So it all rests on your shoulders now James!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6431d

I'm not keen on the way he's so depirately attracting more and more people to London, but doesn't combine that with the joined up logic that more people to the city results in more congestion on the roads and more pressure on an already overloaded public transport system"I didn't like the way that on introducing the congestion charge, he announced that the prices wouldn't increase within 5-10 years (I can't remember the exact time scales) but then within a couple of years increased the cost by 60%Combining with a point above, the London Olympics will be Ken's legacy, but I still feel they're a very bad idea for London. Yes it will regenerate a small area of East London, but at what cost? Both to my back pocket and to reductions in investment to other parts of the country. Couple that with the fact that it will further over-burden the roads/public transport system s I've already mentioned with competitors and spectators."So you do worry about your backpocket then, but don't mind your?council forking out £12,480 a month for a house. I would put a padlock on it if I were you, the government are paying out millions to Abu Hamza's (what a nice man James?) legal team, not forgetting the lovable Abu Qatada's legal team when they make the appeal for him to the Human Rights court in Europe.Did you not know that he wants to kill infidels, but only after he has had their money! Check on your savings James.......but you won't mind, or will you? Get doing some overtime just in case!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6431d

Yes TonyOverlooked by a certain James Lockwood.....not surprising though is it? Just wait when they meet after gourmandizing at the next forum meet! Get down the shelter would be my advice, handbags at 40 paces!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6431d

Andrew, I think you've misunderstood the purpose of my posting. At no point did I try and attack you, I was merely trying to point out why I believe people have an opionion of you based on your posts.If you do feel that my posting was an abusive message to you then I do apologise, that was not the intention. However, I find it rather disturbing that in responce, you've taken a rather light-hearted question about something I don't have full knowledge of and turned it into a personal attack on me. You've been so keen to have those who've levelled accusations against you to apologise, I would therefore request that you withdraw your statement against me.I don't find it strange that I've made no comment about the W4's forum re Cannabis Farm. I've never been on those boards - why should I, I don't live in W4, I live in Ealing.I'm not here to pick fights with you, just point out why people may have formed a belief of you that's apparently going around (I've not looked at Shiela's history, as on this forum, she doesn't appear to be causing as much controversy as yourself). As a result, I have no reason at the moment to either take this matter up with the forum moderators, nor the Hounslow Police.

James Lockwood ● 6431d

James is a luvvie too? Is everyone who does not 100% agree with everything you say also a luvvie? Strewth - we're overrun with thespians then. Who is not? Name them - we need to know who is not a luvvie! Its going to be a short list - remember - this must only include people who are 100% behind and completely in favour of everything you have ever posted. Ever.

Alan Clark ● 6431d

If only those who do not disagree with me, would say exactly what it is you all disagree with. Why is it so difficult to show any? If I am to become a reformed character, I need to know exactly what is offensive and what is not......fair enough. I'm not going to engage with you or anyone else on anything that I have posted, either now or in the past. You are all intellectually superior to me. But I will always always speak up for my own people, who many of you want to see pushed even further down the queue. I'm glad to see that public pressure has forced a change of mind of the left wing councillor,who as usual lost her bottle and could not stand by her decision,perhaps like her parliamentary colleagues she could see an end to her life as a councillor.....typical of a luvvie?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6431d

If only those who do not disagree with me, would say exactly what it is you all disagree That should read as "Those who do not agree with me".......see, even I make mistakes sometimes.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6431d

Does anyone know if when a post is removed whether the poster is advised , pres. by e mail , and given the reason why. I put a post on one thread yesterday and cannot now find it and wanted to do a follow-up , the post being re what was said in a business premises in Northfields Ave in that afternoon. So where that's gawn I do not know. Anyway, did anyone see BBC 1 NEWS at 1pm today (20th ) and in the last part where the programme switches from National to London area topics where there was a bit re another stabbing in London, Harrow to be precise at a petrol filling station where a 19 yr old Somali was stabbed and killed by a person or persons from a number of young males described more specifically than of dark skin pigmentation. A very local business person was interviewed and said "this used to be a very nice area but which has now gone to pot and down the road is Wealdstone which has become a no-go area ". So the effects of immigration are spreading wider and wider and will I am sure until the whole of London is engulfed. Towards that direction Perivale has gone and even my Pakistani friend will not walk in the streets of Wembley and when driving through insists on car doors being locked. No doubt the likes of S D-B et al will tell the BBC not to allow racist dinosaurs to air their bile on the airwaves as they try to do on this Forum, but it only goes to show how much out of kilter are their pro immigration views with most other persons.

Tony Price ● 6430d

'A very local business person was interviewed and said "this used to be a very nice area but which has now gone to pot and down the road is Wealdstone which has become a no-go area ". So the effects of immigration are spreading wider and wider and will I am sure until the whole of London is engulfed. Towards that direction Perivale has gone and even my Pakistani friend will not walk in the streets of Wembley and when driving through insists on car doors being locked. 'I do not recognise Perivale where I live in this description.

Graham Weeks ● 6429d

Re I do not recognise Perivale where I live in this description. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx good, I am so glad for you, may you long feel that way. T'is the right of all good folk.

Tony Price ● 6429d

Re good, I am so glad for you, may you long feel that way. T'is the right of all good folk. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and where's our Nige got to, ain't uttered a word since his blast off of this thread. Maybe he has de-registered. If he had been in West Ealing ( Uxbridge Road )this afternoon I don't think he would have felt " too British " but would by the seems of his one and only post on this thread been overjoyed by the persons there. I felt a distinct stranger.

Tony Price ● 6429d

"I do not recognise Perivale where I live in this descriptionTry it without the rose tinted glasses on!"

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6429d

Re "I do not recognise Perivale where I live in this descriptionTry it without the rose tinted glasses on!" xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx well the funny thing is in years gone by I used to get my car tyres from a company in Perivale and then seemingly had no need for replacement tyres, so stopped going there for several years. But when I did go back, maybe 6-7 years ago, the area had changed beyond belief, hardly a european face to be seen. I bided my time and when able, tactfully asked what had happened, and was told " they have all moved from the Wembley area ". And also the person who says he does not recognise where he lives from my earlier description is the very same if my memory serves me correctly who started a thread on this very Forum complaining re his next door neighbour flouting rules by building or wanting to build a bungalow like construction in the back garden and who lives in Liverpool ?, of asian origin and who in those 11 years? of ownership had never had the common courtesy even to speak to the complaining poster. Strange how things change so quickly.

Tony Price ● 6429d

Verification Required ● 6429d

Re I heve never had any troubles living in London xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I am sure you haven't and the same would apply to 50% or more of the current population.

Tony Price ● 6429d

Verification Required ● 6428d

There you go Andrew someones named a drink after you.

Tony Maxey ● 6428d

get your coat...you've pulled

Al Stuart ● 6428d

'And also the person who says he does not recognise where he lives from my earlier description is the very same if my memory serves me correctly who started a thread on this very Forum complaining re his next door neighbour flouting rules by building or wanting to build a bungalow like construction in the back garden and who lives in Liverpool ?, of asian origin and who in those 11 years? of ownership had never had the common courtesy even to speak to the complaining poster. Strange how things change so quickly.'True but what I did not recognise in your previous post was Pervale as a no go area where you feel unsafe. Yes it has an increasing number of Asians and Poles. I say i live half way between Gujerat and the Punjab. But feeling unsafe?

Graham Weeks ● 6428d

Re what I did not recognise in your previous post was Pervale as a no go area where you feel unsafe xxxxxxxxxxxxxx this is what I said " So the effects of immigration are spreading wider and wider and will I am sure until the whole of London is engulfed. Towards that direction Perivale has gone " meaning that Perivale seems to have succumbed to the effects of immigration and that Wembley ( as a separate issue ) is viewed by my Pakistani friend as not safe for him to walk the streets or drive with windows and car doors unlocked. As I said, Wealdstone was the area described on the TV as a " no go area " by a local person, albeit a white dinosaur but with views worthy of consideration nonetheless. What I know is, the area of my Borough I know best, ie Ealing Broadway itself, and West Ealing have been changed in the past 10 years beyond all recognition, and which will be at an accelerating pace, and so have all areas around Ealing, incl. those mentioned plus others wider afield. The ground is being removed from under our feet, I don't welcome it and cannot understand why others do and side with the incomers against the ones historically here, and who made London what it is. You can bet your boots the incomers will not add to it's glory and I question why this Govt. have allowed them in, as I do not see what benefit they will be to the British economy. The costs of surveillance alone would outweight the slight if any financial benefit they bring to us.

Tony Price ● 6428d

And sorry, I am attracted to this because Ajma is a drink in my country but I do not think this about that! Thank youChampagne of the finest quality no doubt!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6426d

Verification Required ● 6426d

AMJA makes us feel sad as well and often makes us feel sick too.Andrew - apologies - it was just too tempting.

Alan Clark ● 6426d

I am not sure whether Helena is speaking Alsatian or using one of those mysterious swiss dialects when she speaks of Masseneinwanderungmund. Sounds a good place for the ajma anagram on SS Windrush to visit with a one way ticket. She may be interested that, in this country, the greatest impact of this news would have best been made on 1st April, when some of us love a good natured joke. She may also be interested to hear that the English language is pregnant with old maritime phrases.'Empty vessels make the most sound' is an expression which comes to mind.Probably AMJA will exercise his rights under the Human Rights Act to respond. Ah well.Chus!

George Knox ● 6426d

Probably AMJA will exercise his rights under the Human Rights Act to respond. Ah well.Chus!Being part of the crazy gang, is sufficient excuse for being an idiot, I suppose. Were you born one or have you had to work at it.....it's working!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6425d

AMJA makes us feel sad as well and often makes us feel sick too.This from a man? who allegedly does not like insults, but does not mind them coming from him. Hypocrite comes to mind. Still no answers to what annoys him.....no surprise there then!I was beginning to wonder where all of you luvvies had gone, at Northolt airport to welcome home the wanderer perhaps, more taxpayers money being spent on everybody, except those who pay tax, which you don't mind being spent apparently. Let the Brits who are out of work "Eat cake" I suppose? I will await to see the bill for his security!Now that has given you all something to get your teeth into!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6425d

"Please tell me what is AMJA? It is not a drink I think!"Helena It is 4 letters that drive the luvvies of Ealing and Chiswick particularly to distraction. They do not mind their own people being left behind on almost everything, particularly housing.If anybody has the temerity to protest, they shout racist, a favourite word of theirs. Luvvies are mine and many others description for the ultra liberal left. Or if we are less polite:- "Schmerzen in den Arsch" and there are very many of them about sadly who want to see our culture, customs and traditions cast aside. Some of them cannot bring themselves to speak up for our service men and women either..can you luvvies?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6425d

Verification Required ● 6425d

Re AMJA makes us feel sad as well and often makes us feel sick too. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx If you mean what he says makes you feel that way, then it's about time you stood up to be counted. But I wonder if that is what you mean Like he, I have received abuse of a personal nature from S B-D, SN, SK, JS et al for espousing similar views but which I maintain will be upheld more and more as time goes by. Today I was in a large D I Y store towards the Uxbridge area and spoke with a Polish person, here for 6 years, married and with a girl of 3, lives in Hounslow West. This country is going downhill because of immigration from non EU countries he said and by persons who wish to change many aspects here to their customs / culture ( makes one wonder why they left to come among us) and that there are too few in public life who stand up to them. That followed hot on the heels of a visit at home today by an intending kitchen fitter who told me he came from the Hanwell area, knew my area well and spoke highly of it as it used to be, and which has been changed beyond belief, so much so he has moved away. He said we both know the reason for the downfall of London. Neither of the persons here referred to could in anyway be described as dinosaurs and outdated outmoded, so I am sorry to say to the abusers, you are very much in the minority as I have yet to meet a person who shares your views. Your ostrich like behaviour will come to bite and haunt you.

Tony Price ● 6425d

Re Now that has given you all something to get your teeth into! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx my answer to that situation Andrew would be to exercise the removal forthwith of him as was the situation before he went to Afghanistan to cure his drug habit ( the mind boggles ) as he had been refused permission to remain. He is not a British citizen, even in it's widest sense so beloved of immigrant sycophants, so we owe him nothing. One of his complaints is his interrogators used info supplied by British Security. So what. Why not. If we have info which is pertinent, it must be used. As far as I am concerned, out he goes back to Eritrea? and if he wants to sue us, he can do so from there, at his own expense, unless of course the luvvies here want to pay for his costs.

Tony Price ● 6425d

It was a joke. It was laid out on a plate by Helena when she said her local drink made her sad and upset her stomach. How could anyone miss an opportunity like this even if it was not true? It was crying out for someone to make the connection of the effects of this drink with the same set of letters as Andrew. It was so obvious and so tempting I even apologied for it on my post. You chaps perhaps ought to let a little quip like this go by and be just a tiny bit less righteous. Oh, and possibly even graciously accept the apology.

Alan Clark ● 6425d

The joke was evident when you start to translate the component parts of Masseneinwanderungmund. I am sure that Helena if she wanted to would find the right words.

George Knox ● 6425d

It looks like my efforts were entirely superfluous then...

Alan Clark ● 6425d

Verification Required ● 6424d

"You chaps perhaps ought to let a little quip like this go by and be just a tiny bit less righteous. Oh, and possibly even graciously accept the apology." I get it now.....give out an insult, at the same time offer an apology, and hey presto..all is forgiven....clever that! I might use it myself. We are not used to luvvies having a sense of humour,if that is what it was meant to be. Stick to insults,a number of you are quite good at it!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6424d

!Sounds a good place for the ajma anagram on SS Windrush to visit with a one way ticket. She may be interested."Yes I served my country by serving in Malaya.What did you do..........conscientious objector, that's what the gutless usually do!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6424d

If people join the armend forces these days, then they will be sent to areas of danger. It is a choice they make. They are not conscripts. I admire their bravery but just exactly what do they think they will be doing when they join? If they don't want to fight, then do something else. If they do want to fight then they are free to do so but we cannot then molly coddle them and compensate them for post traumatic stress disorder. Yes, war is stressful.....You label conscientious objectors as cowards. I would refute this. There is nothing cowardly in being peaceful and not following the crowd. Indeed, it is very hard to stand up for your beliefs, whatever shade they may be.

Penny Crocker ● 6424d

You label conscientious objectors as cowards. I would refute this. There is nothing cowardly in being peaceful and not following the crowd. Indeed, it is very hard to stand up for your beliefs, whatever shade they may be. Yes they are cowards. Many brave men were conscripted in WW1 and WW2 to prevent Hitler, who had invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia, and over run most of Europe, at one time the only thing preventing him from invading us were young men aged 18-25 (in the main) who fought off the mighty luftwaffe. So Madam if these people received the advice that you offering now and done something else, you would now be speaking German, you would not be on a forum speaking your mind, and if you were a Jew, you would more than likely have been in a labour camp or murdered.I think your childish and selfish remarks about PTSD, and molly coddling them, I suppose by that you mean giving them replacement legs, arms or both, when they have been shot or blown up? Of course they knew when they joined up, what they were letting themselves in for, but what they did or do not expect, is you and the rest of the liberal luvvies who don't want to, as you delicately put it "Molly Coddle" them! You very obviously do not have, or had any family member serving in the armed forces. I had a 16 year old uncle blown to pieces in WW1 at the battle of Loos, his older brother was killed a year later. Yes Ms Crocker, thank Christ they had the guts to fight for their country..........you are a disgrace, but being a left wing liberal luvvie, it's not surprising is it?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6424d

Please stop calling me a luvvie. I've never stood on a stage, never spoken a line of a play...never behaved in a luvvie fashion. If you mean politically correct (as overly applying PC terminology and controls) then you also have the wrong person. My PC-ness is not well developed at all. If you mean hopelessly determined to take from the hard working and give to the lazy ... then you've definitely got the wrong person. However, if by luvvie you mean anyone who believes that the ills of this country are broader and more complex than the issues you so often cite (immigration, crimes by non-UK citizens, etc.); if you mean anyone who does not want immediate closing of our borders; if you mean anyone who thinks there are plenty of UK citizens worse than the majority of non-UK residents; if you mean anyone who has doubts about the validity or benefits of the so called war on terrorism; if you mean anyone who is not xenophobic; if you mean anyone who thinks that all people deserve a minimum level of rights and without this we get the sort of injustice seen in the worst sort of countries; if you mean anyone who has considered that a socially responsible approach to welfare is worthwhile ... then (1) you need a new term - luvvie just does not fit; (2) you will find you are in the minority and we need a suitable term for you. As for jokes... there is a greater lack of humour in your self-righteousness. You could take the joke, or you could get all uptight about it. Guess what you will consistently opt for?

Alan Clark ● 6424d

Utter rubbish. Both grandfathers fought in the 1st World War, one in the Boar War and my father and mother fought in the 2nd World War. They fought because they had to and in the case of my Grandfather, he lied about his age to get into the army because he had no work. No of course I don't mean giving them replacement arms and legs you moron.I mean them suing the armed forces because they are suffering from stress !!!!! If we hadn't fought the 1st World War and placed such onerous terms on the Germans and if Churchill hadn't put Britain back onto the Gold standard, the 2nd World War wouldn't have happened. If Liberal luvvies like me hadn't spoken out in the past few centuries you wouldn't ba able to speak your mind either you silly old bigot. Without 'liberal's and 'lefties' you would be without a pension, a health service and an education.

Penny Crocker ● 6424d

No of course I don't mean giving them replacement arms and legs you moron.I mean them suing the armed forces because they are suffering from stress !!!!!You said molly coddling, no mention of what you are NOW saying......my advice "engage brain before opening mouth"What a charmer you are.......I thought that you were above insults, now we have all seen a luvvie in her true colours, don't do as I do, do as I say!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6424d

Bwahaha!

Tony Wood ● 6424d

You posts are so devisive and rude in their tone. I am merely reciprocating. And btw, you make sweeping statements about my family ...etc etc. How about seeing if you have a brain or is it too addled and stuck in a groove?Didn't like my point about pensions, education and the health service then. Didn't fit your right wing agenda?

Penny Crocker ● 6424d

"You posts are so devisive and rude in their tone. I am merely reciprocating."Oh! Iv'e got it now...you were only reciprocating..sounds fair! When I reciprocate I'm a rude moron bigot, Oh and not forgetting right wing, if promoting my country, it's traditions, culture and people is righr wing, well whadya know..I'm right wing!!!! Get over it.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6424d

I don't care what you are. Your views are old-fashioned and out-dated and no longer fit the modern world. Get over it.

Penny Crocker ● 6424d

"I don't care what you are. Your views are old-fashioned and out-dated and no longer fit the modern world. Get over it."I don't know what it takes to get you luvvies to wake up and see, just how this country has descended into the mire, and continues to do so. You talk about a modern world, where we now have a specialist police force (Trident) to prevent blacks killing one another, people entering the country on the backs of lorries, and other assorted criminals from all over the world, carrying on with their criminal activities here. Yes I love your idea of the modern world. Not to mention home grown extremists wanting to do us harm. Wake up for Christ sake!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6424d

Re but we cannot then molly coddle them and compensate them for post traumatic stress disorder. Yes, war is stressful..... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I would disagree with you there Penny. Whereas I agree if someone signs up for active duty they should not moan if sent to war zones, but if that has an extreme adverse effect on them mentally, emotionally and nervous-wise, then I think they should receive appropriate help just as they expect if they are injured physically. In fact, the former could be more damaging and longer lasting. I am often saddened by the way our ex Forces are not looked after when back home or no longer in active service. They deserve far more than the damned "Bankers " currently screwing us for all they're worth, which IMO, ain't much at all.

Tony Price ● 6424d

Re I don't care what you are. Your views are old-fashioned and out-dated and no longer fit the modern world. Get over it. cccccccccccp excuse if I step in between you two " waring factions " but I don't think your comment above Penny is that held by the great British public, and I warrant, will not by you eventually when the real truth of what is happening to our homeland becomes apparent to you. It is no good saying, even when in hot tempered state, that views re safeguarding our environment ( which is primarily the result of the inhabitants ), country, customs and culture are outmoded and no longer valid. I travelled by bus from E/B'way to Yeading yesterday afternoon and if I say I was made to feel a stranger in my own country, believe me , I was, from the time of alighting the bus, and from Greenford onwards. The change there staggered me, schools on turning out were 95% non-european, all ages, not first age-level primary. I don't call that the way for any Borough, County or country of Europe to go, will only result in disaster, even for " modernists " like you who may well scream the loudest when the axe finally falls and you have no option to realise you and yours have been usurped and done away with . The following is an extract from an article today :- "A cut in immigration is the top priority of both Conservative and Labour voters, with more than half the electorate wanting a future Government to reduce numbers of incomers, according to a poll.A cut in immigration is the top priority of both Conservative and Labour voters, with more than half the electorate wanting a future Government to reduce numbers of incomers, according to a poll."

Tony Price ● 6424d

"They deserve far more than the damned "Bankers " currently screwing us for all they're worth, which IMO, ain't much at all."They'd be Left Wing Liberal Luvvie Muslims then?

Tony Wood ● 6423d

"They'd be Left Wing Liberal Luvvie Muslims then?"Not quite, but a left wing idiot, look in the mirror and you will observe one. Grow up!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6423d

Helena AnkardtDoes the name you use sounds like to " Hell in a handcart* so I won't be taking you too seriously, I am among other things an old cynic....sorry if I have misunderstood you!You may have the impression that we are cabbagey, but not green though.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6423d

Hello. I think this is a very nice country to live in. I heve never had any troubles living in London. It is a nice place to live and I can get everything I need from the shops. Aren't you a lucky lady then, Hell in a handcart.....really! Wie gehts ist einen Helena?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6423d

Re and if I say I was made to feel a stranger in my own country xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx not surprising as I am sure Ealing and London in general have more than played their part in the following, especially as the Capital is the favoured place for those coming to our shores, and bear in mind it relates only to new homes only. Add existing dwellings and one gets some feeling for the extent of the homes denied indigenous folk and families and the massive cost involved :- " IMMIGRANTS GIVEN 4 IN 10 NEW HOMES?ABOVE: Demand for housing in Britain is rising 16th August 2007 By TomSavage? IMMIGRANTS have taken 40% of all homes built in the UK in thepast 10 years.The number of properties available for Brits has been squeezed becauseof the record number of foreigners coming to live here, according toofficial figures released yesterday. ?Nearly 600,000 properties have been needed to house immigrants since1997 - three times the amount required under the last Tory Government.On average, 19,000 new homes were needed for migrants each year from1992 to 1997. ?But after Labour came to power, that figure rocketed to an average of66,000 each year from 1997 to 2005 - the latest year figures areavailable for - making a total of 592,000 homes. "

Tony Price ● 6423d

a bit more for the modernists of Ealing and Forum ccccccccccccccccccccp Fresh statistics showed that the number of non-UK born workers increasedby 214,000 in the year up to December while the number of Britishworkers fell by 278,000 over the same period" xxxxxxxxxxxxxx So we have a gap of 492,000 between British jobs for British workers and British jobs taken by alien workers. No wonder the Govt. try to stifle all debate on the effects of immigration.

Tony Price ● 6423d

By golly gosh, ain't the Ealing Forum modernists so lucky xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx " One in nine British residents was born overseasOne in nine people living in Britain was born overseas, according tofigures that highlight significant changes in the population underLabour." xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx to the above 11% of the population must be added the children born to ethnics in this country, so the overall number of non indigenous persons in The London Borough of Ealing must indeed be very high, as witnessed by we who chose to open our eyes. I would say for the country as a whole a good 20% and Ealing as we know was a few years back in the order of 47% ?, so now well over 50% and rising fast. The modernists must be whooping with joy but what will those whoops change to when they find they are doing a re-run of Custer's last stand.

Tony Price ● 6423d

and a few more facts to warm the cockles of Ealing's modernists hearts:- " Long-term immigration into Britain hit a newrecord with 605,000 moving here in 2007, confounding predictions fromstatisticians that the number of newcomers had peaked" So no wonder :- " Hundreds of thousands of Britons are packing up for a new life abroadBritain is experiencing the greatest exodus of its own nationals sincebefore the First World War while immigration has reached unprecedentedlevels, new figures from the Office of National Statistics haverevealed." and if that ain't good enough :- " There were 6.5 million people bornabroad who were resident in the UK in June 2008. This represented a riseof 290,000 on the previous year and 1.2 million since 2004" and just to make sure the good times keep rolling, although Ealing is not specifically mentioned, we know from schools intake, we are up there with the very " best " :- " In some cities, more than half of babies had mothers bornoverseas. They included London (54%), Slough (56%) and Luton (51%). InLeicester the figure was 44%. In Newham, an east London borough, it was75%."

Tony Price ● 6423d

Verification Required ● 6423d

Re " There were 6.5 million people bornabroad who were resident in the UK in June 2008. This represented a riseof 290,000 on the previous year and 1.2 million since 2004" xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx So it just goes to show how hopelessly out of date are the figures ( albeit fiddled like billyo by this Govt.) of the 2001 Census. No wonder they are already making arrangements to fiddle those of the next census, I think one move by allowing residents of all colours being able to declare themselves as English ( or Scottish, Welsh etc etc ), hitherto able to claim Britishness as a nationality. Within 15 years London will be unrecognisable, small pockets maybe of original ethnicity but most Boroughs such as Ealing as we knew it, gawn for ever.

Tony Price ● 6423d

"You will not take me seriously because of my name?"Not a surprise surely Helena. I can spot a fake a mile off. Just take another look at your efforts so far to emulate a swiss miss...I could have done it better myself. Vie haf vays of making you talk meine liebling. (Spelling a bit iffy though!)

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6423d

It took you long enough to spot it, AMJA, and since when is Alsace is Switzerland?

Susan Kelly ● 6422d

I am more interested in, and awaiting sensible observations from you luvvies, so forgive me if I chose to ignore her/him for a while. I only wish you would answer some of the questions that I pose, as quickly as you point out my perceived failure to respond to such a massive mistake, clever bunny, the country is safe in your hands!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6422d

You're right about there being no debate, AMJA, because you don't debate. You just state your prejudices and then dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as a 'luvvie'.Dear Ms KellySeeing as how I repond to your observations about my failings, will you now tell me exactly how and where I have shown prejudice, and what it is that you think I should not say or suggest. I have asked you many times before but you always revert to type, and accuse me of not debating, but you and the liberal crowd seem unable/unwilling to put up any real argument, other than the comments you continually make about my prejudices. So come on let us hear one or two examples, what are they?......I'm sure the other luvvies on here will be able to help you out. Over to you now!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6422d

Re I am more interested in, and awaiting sensible observations from you xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx it seems distinctly possible Michael there are those, maybe in the singular, who have chosen to use this Forum for personal vendetta purposes, which may be in lieu of proffering their reasons why immigrants and asylum seekers are more welcomed by them in " gentle Ealing " ( as was )than the erstwhile indigenous folk. The wait for those reasons may be a long one?.

Tony Price ● 6422d

If I reply I'm a luvvie. If I don't, i'm a weak luvvie.Clarify for me please -

Alan Clark ● 6422d

To help your cause...Tony & Andrew (the twins of simplicity) here is my reply. It's late, so you may need to sit down and listen. My post above (miles above) stated:However, if by luvvie you mean anyone who believes that the ills of this country are broader and more complex than the issues you so often cite (immigration, crimes by non-UK citizens, etc.); if you mean anyone who does not want immediate closing of our borders; if you mean anyone who thinks there are plenty of UK citizens worse than the majority of non-UK residents; if you mean anyone who has doubts about the validity or benefits of the so called war on terrorism; if you mean anyone who is not xenophobic; if you mean anyone who thinks that all people deserve a minimum level of rights and without this we get the sort of injustice seen in the worst sort of countries; if you mean anyone who has considered that a socially responsible approach to welfare is worthwhile ... Then giulty as charged - and proud not be you (assuming your views differ).You frequently use the term “grow up”. I’m curious – what about the above implies immaturity. What about your views grants maturity? An ability to comprehend the complexities of the world would seem to be a reflection of being adult as opposed to being child like and simple. A single view, a perception that everything boils down to one or two issues is not a reflection of the sophisticated mind. Your oft stated position, your views, therefore appear simple and child like.This is a serious pity. It is a pity because there may on occasion be a tiny element of truth within your comments. Not a complete picture, not indeed a rationale solution – but just a small valid point. The pity is that you destroy the validity with your approach to arguing your position.There are many groups who no doubt will appreciate your views – Immigration Watch, UK Independence Party for example. Please, please post your views on their websites where they will be welcome. Save your posts for them.

Alan Clark ● 6422d

Re not indeed a rationale solution – but just a small valid point. The pity is that you destroy the validity with your approach to arguing your position. xxxxxxxxxxxx you wrote a lot but said little, of sense anyway, but let's have your reasons for justifying the change / giving away of our country and how you would solve the situation, or are you happy with the ways things are going, if so, why?

Tony Price ● 6422d

On the contrary, Alan's posting contains plenty of sense. Every attempt at logical, rational argument is squashed by you two with squeals of 'Luvvie'.

Susan Kelly ● 6422d

Re Every attempt at logical, rational argument is squashed by you two xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Well in that case it should not be too difficult for you to repeat them one by one. You could even devote a whole post to each piece of logic building up to quite a stack of postings. Please also show me where I have squashed any attempt at logical argument. In view of what you have said above, you must be bursting with enthusiasm to let forth with the reasons for mass immigration etc etc. Such information you could also tell to the wider British public of all parties as they are like me, rather concerned.

Tony Price ● 6422d

Tony, it is difficult to cover every issue within the confines of a post - so I'll pick one: immigration. I will be specific here and refer to legal immigration and not asylum seekers - not because I do not have views on this but because I want to cover a single topic.You ask for justification of change - here I presume you mean the change that means you see more than white faces in the town of Britain. Yet such change is part of a long history of racial and social change within this country. What we witness today is a snapshot of a long story of incomers that no doubt will continue beyond our years. When some, like you perhaps, voice xenophobic views these are the same complaints that followed every group of new incomer. And guess what – when these voices died down and the new comers integrated we got the community you refer to as lost.The historic change - the movement of non-local white faces has been going on for centuries. The Irish for example set up home in many east ends - and were often marginalised at best (and at worst suffered racist attacks). Equally people from many other Caucasian sources settled here – going back from the French Huguenots, through the European Jews over the centuries to the desperate influx of central / eastern Europeans at the start of WW2. With each wave there were complaints from at least some of the existing residents of this island that we were being overrun.The point is that each change drives some to feel threatened and some to complain. And yet, historically, after the complaints are quiet and once the new comers are part of the society, we have ended up with a nation richer in GDP, language, food, and culture. What is so fundamentally different in 2009?To pre-empt your response, if I may, perhaps it is the scale and the speed? This is the point of validity I indicated might have basis of being an issue. However where I differ is that I feel the scale and speed are only slightly too high – not 100% too high. I also suspect that some of the perception of a massive influx of new comers is more to do with (1) population growth within existing communities, (2) a trend of increasing wealth amongst 2nd and 3rd generation of immigrant residents allowing them to move to ‘gentle Ealing’. Both outside the scope of this post.You speak of our country being given away – how so? It is still here. The services we expect are still here; at least as much here as they have been over the last 20-30 years. Until this last 12 months the GDP growth has been steadily positive for many, many years. And the problem of this last 12 months was not caused by new comers to the UK. That is very clear. Our proud and very white (did I miss a coloured face amidst the shamed UK banking executives who are still demanding their bonuses and pensions?) financial wizards take the blame for this.If you mean we provide services and support to people who have not contributed yet to our society – then you need to cast the net of blame here wider than just immigrants. The net-takers from our society are as much (more so in total cost?) the indigenous white council house living, dole claiming, benefits cheating, never worked a day in their lives under class. If you dislike one group for getting too much from society and not giving enough back then please dislike equally all who are too blame for this. (Excepting of course the unfortunate few who are unable for reasons of health, etc.)Our country is supported by the tax paying wage earners. I’m very lucky to be one of those who pay thousands more than I will ever get back. I have a good job (assuming its still there through this year) that puts me in the high tax bracket – and working along side me on similar or even higher salaries are professional, educated, tax paying 2nd and 3rd generation non-white people. Communicating in better English than me. Being impressive management executives. This is the legacy of immigration. This makes me proud to be British – that we have this mix of races all working at senior levels. Compare this to, say, Germany or France that really struggle to so well integrate their immigrants. Their countries are the net losers here.Why would I solve this situation? Why would you complain?No, your complaint is primarily two fold.First, you dislike the injustice of one person / group getting more than another group. That is a good view for life – injustice is wrong. Where your myopic view fails to sit well with me is that every example you give is related to a non-white person or family. I’ve never seen a complaint about injustice from excessive benefits given to white people. Maybe you do not see such events (and they are sure to exist) – or maybe you apply your special filter when looking for things to be outraged by.Second, your recollection of life in west London is not the scenes you see walking down the street. This is called change. London has been changing as long as I’ve been here – and it will change for long after. You do not have any right to shout ‘stand still’ – because it will not happen, and because your generation was also guilty of change just as much as this one is. As the Americans would say – suck it up; cause its here and it ain’t going away. And it might just actually be worth while.

Alan Clark ● 6422d

Fair words...... but when the job is gone, the car returned, and the house repossessed... and the benefits queue is long and dark and you (in the sense of one - third party singular) are at the end of it...

Alan Brainsby ● 6422d

Re Second, your recollection of life in west London is not the scenes you see walking down the street. This is called change. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx thank you for having taken the time and effort to put together a detailed and well written post but as I am packing to go to Southampton I cannot respond in detail now but will hopefully later on, by which time no doubt Ms.S K will have given us the first instalment of her promised enlightenments.

Tony Price ● 6422d

Every attempt at logical, rational argument is squashed by you two with squeals of 'Luvvie'.Before we can have a logical, rational argument, and in spite of asking you many times to do so,is to tell us what exactly it is that you luvvies object to. Mr Clark apparently has no problems in keeping our borders open, in spite of the current recession, when our own people are losing their jobs and homes. Some hospitals are having to close their doors because they cannot meet the demand. Our children are being held back in their education because many have a situation where 90% do not have English as a first language. Housing is in crisis, and as I have said time and time again, our hard earned money is being used,to house not only our own feckless layabouts but everybody else who turns up here and demands "their rights"no matter what the cost may be, but on the other hand those who have contributed to the economy are expected to stand back and say nothing. Well people of Ealing, if the views of Mr Clark,and Ms Kelly are typical of the views of other liberal luvvies, you will be in for a whale of a time if Nick Clegg ever holds the reins of government. And with Ms Crocker who apparently sees the abuse that is happening here and around the country as being modernist, then I am glad that I am old fashioned. Just a small reminder, we live on a small Island with 60,000,000 inhabitants, and together with the fact that we are the most densely populated country in Western Europe, perhaps one of you can tell me at what point do we say "Enough is Enough".......Will you answer this one Ms Kelly?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6422d

"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."TonyI think that this aptly describes the luvvies of Ealing. I fear that we are never going to get a straight answer from any of them. One can only presume that they are in employment, adequately housed, their children (if any)are in a school of THEIR choice, have no debt or are not waiting for the bailiffs to call, to either remove their property or worse put them all out onto the street. But I suspect that in the eyes of a luvvie it will be "sod 'em".We even have one of them not wanting to, as she so delicately put it "molly coddle" our service people. She objects to any of them them suing the MoD for PTSD that they had suffered in a war situation, usually caused either by the lack of or inferion equipment, one Sgt was killed because they took away his body armour, but of course the luvvies believe that they knew what they were letting themselves in for when they joined up.....lovely caring people aren't they? I hope Abu Hamza and his cronies never succeed with the Jihad, that they keep threatening us with, because if it ever happens, and it is left to them to take them on, watch the white flags being held up, and they take to the hills!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6422d

"And guess what – when these voices died down and the new comers integrated we got the community you refer to as lost." The operative word here is integration, would you say that Southall, Rotherham, Bradford, Leicester, Birmingham, Brick Lane, to give just a few examples, is or ever will be, even partly integrated. I am afraid that we will completely lose our identity if this trend continues!Did you not realise that many of these areas are "No Go" for whites, and at least one of them want to change the English name (Southall!) to something more Asian, I don't call that wishing or wanting to integrate. Xenophobic, a word all of you like bandying about, would seem to me to be more appropriately applied to those who want to have nothing to do with the host community. Wake up, take a good look around you, and if you have Sky or Virgin TV, tune into a programme called Border Force. One particular episode saw officers detain a Pakistani national, who claimed to be from of all places Romania. He was arrested and taken to the police station, released on Bail with orders to report to there weekly......guess what, he has disappeared...Xenophobic my ass. Madness, definitely, I bet Bin laden is having a field day. How many terrorist attacks must we have before someone has the balls to act? You said:-"or maybe you apply your special filter when looking for things to be outraged by."Which seems to apply just as equally to you, when you imply or use the worn out words racist and xenophobic!Sauce for the Goose perhaps?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6422d

Kevin Hone ● 6422d

Re so I'll pick one: immigration xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Alan, before I start responding in earnest, please read this :- http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025016.php which is a combination of the effects of immigration and left wing policies.

Tony Price ● 6422d

Andrew, you come over as a very angry man. Do you suffer some internal torment? Is this why you are so abusive towards everyone who disagrees with you? Could you, for instance, be a closet homosexual?I used to be a homosexual but had to give it up......cos it made my eyes water. I'm glad that I am conveying my anger, when idiots like you try to be a smart ass. Are you homophobic, when you suggest that my anger, may be the reason why you associate abuse and anger with Homosexuality, grow up and come on with something sensible for Christ sake.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6421d

Re immigration. I will be specific here and refer to legal immigration and not asylum seekers xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I don't think Alan you can be selective on this matter. Legal immigration as you call it would account for only a part of the immigration fiasco, the effects of which are not felt by those who authorise / organise it, but those further down the chain. If we were dealing with legal immigration alone, the problem could easily be solved by a change in government or change of attitude within the same one. This one is getting the collywobbles as they are fearful the British public will hit back at the authors of their misfortune By singling out legal immigration you push aside asylum seekers, who raided our shores in vast numbers, even Straw when Home Sec. said 70-80% were bogus, but still let them in. Charities specialising in that field say only 2.5% are genuine. Then of course we have millions who are illegal, but they are still here. Still waiting for the pearls of wisdom from Sage Kelly.

Tony Price ● 6421d

Re Yet such change is part of a long history of racial and social change within this country. What we witness today is a snapshot of a long story of incomers that no doubt will continue beyond our years. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx You are incorrect when you say what is happening is part of a long ongoing situation. Never has this country been faced with the arrival in such vast numbers as now. You cite the oft quoted cases of Jews and Hugenots but there is no comparison with today's events. Firstly in terms of numbers and cause. Both those groups were subjected to genuine persecution and thus were genuine asylum seekers. And neither were a drag on this country's resources. Those coming in now are not bona fide asylum seekers but benefit seekers, for which one possibly cannot blame them but one can blame those here who let them. The Polish person I was talking to last Thurs? living in Hounslow West, said the non-white immigrants there he is amongst are only interested in benefits and how much. The Jews funded themselves and presented no challenge to the authority of this land nor our safety, and they and the Hugenots fitted in as basically of the same type, Jews different religion but did not push for changes to our's. And surely Alan, you don't try to justify what is / has happened recently because of the incoming of a few Jews and Hugenots. Prior to them, there were incomers, mainly by invasion and who were repelled as best we could. There has never been racial and social change as foisted on us now. If you were to see the changes required by the Muslim Council of Britain and those of dark skin pigmentation via the now defunct organisation BLINK, you would be very concerned. Muslims already have their own Parliament of GB set up, and BLINK were demanding parliamentary candidate lists for London consist of black persons only. So we have a situation of swarm in and take over, or try and there are those who would allow us to be walked all over.

Tony Price ● 6421d

More xxxx's kisses. How nice.I focused on one topic and made it specific because these are all fairly big issues. To try to address them all in one post would be impossible. Even for a single element such as legal immigration it was only possible to scrape the surface.The focus on a single issue is important because it allows a more managed set of responses - from all of us. One of my criticisms of past posts is that they slip off onto related topics - often at the expense of addressing the issue at hand. Your post runs off to talk about illegal immigration - my post was about legal immigration. Are you only operating on a single message (statistics on immigration) or do you want to repsond to my post?

Alan Clark ● 6421d

Ok - posts crossing in the ether. You respond to my post. Fair enough.Your note above cites the scale and the pace of immigration. You also refer to the lack of integration. Yes, perhaps there is a need for both paced immigration and measures that will speed integration. I noted this view in my post.My point is that there are multiple benefits to immigration, there has been through history and there continues to be today. There are always problems in the initial years of immigration - all examples of immigration carry examples of some in the indigenous population acting in what they see as defence. Mostly it has proved to be a mix of irrational fear and a base of prejudice.Your post above makes long reference to minority groups trying to set up a state within a state or establish some sort of power group within our establishments. What is your point here? That these efforts may succeed? That the voting and political apathy of many in our country make it easier? On the first - the best they will succeed is publicity - is there harm in that? The second point on apathy - be assured that there is not apathy from me.

Alan Clark ● 6421d

Priceless. You watch Sky and use this to make judgements on the ways of the world. You should nip across to the US and watch another Murdoch channel, Fox News, for more unbiased views of the world.The really hilarious thing is you then use the term 'rose tinted glasses' when refering to the way others view the world. True, your lenses are not rose tinted. But they are tinted if this is an example of your sources.If Bin Laden is having a field day it is because his intention is to create divide and conflict between the various racial and religious groups in every western country. He does not care that this will cause pain and loss on both / all sides. He wants to brew increasing conflict and alienation. You, my simple poster, are playing along so well. You are inadvertently supporting his cause. In fact, you are doing it with such enthusiasm that one might suspect that you are actually an undercover Bin Laden operative.

Alan Clark ● 6421d

Re And guess what – when these voices died down and the new comers integrated we got the community you refer to as lost. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx the trouble now Alan is the new influx cannot integrate as those in the past have done. One main reason is colour, colour does not mix and if the attempt is made, the result is rejected by both " sides ", which is grossly unfair on the progeny. And that assumes they want to integrate but they don't. Too many attempts are made now for us to change to them, not them to us. In many schools only halal meat is available , to suit the Muslims, so our children have to forgo meat slaughtered as humanely as possible to suit the incomers who are living in the past and want meat from animals slaughtered in barbaric old fashioned ways. If our kids knew / saw that, they would revolt in disgust. If Muslims demand halal meat, let them bring it to scool themselves. And our religious ceremonies have to be done away with so as not to upset the ethnics. S.d the ethnics, either THEY fit in or go elsewhere. There are no-go areas for whites, in our own country. Disgusting. I was talking to a Dutch neighbour in London just now to let her know I had arrived safely in Southampton and she told me in Holland where her sister first lived after she married was a very nice safe area but now is over-run by non europeans and where a Dutch person dare not go, not even the Police. I am told there are similar areas in Liverpool but which will be denied by the Authorities. So integration is a no-no. Muslims will not integrate with anyone other than, Indians won't integrate with blacks, orientals prefer in the main to stick to their own, no-one integrates with Somalis, so we end up with a multi fragmented society and multi fragmented country. Would you feel safe in the event of another World War with those among us now. We even have difficulty now in raising an army to fight abroad. Sorry Alan, but this experiment is backfiring and the Government know it.

Tony Price ● 6421d

Re after the complaints are quiet and once the new comers are part of the society, we have ended up with a nation richer in GDP, language, food, and culture. What is so fundamentally different in 2009? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Primarily, numbers, the like of which we have never had before, and type, which we have never had to face before in such quatities. As for language, I don't think much Urdu, Farsi, Hindi, Arabic, Chinese will fit in or add to the international language, English. One Brazilian I met a few years back said he came to London to learn / practice the english language, but sadly he said not many English people here, and that was 4-5 years ago, much worse now.

Tony Price ● 6421d

Re I also suspect that some of the perception of a massive influx of new comers is more to do with (1) population growth within existing communities, (2) a trend of increasing wealth amongst 2nd and 3rd generation of immigrant residents allowing them to move to ‘gentle Ealing’. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx massive influx indeed. Take Southall for example. When my employer moved me to London in 1970, 2 years later I bought a place in Ealing and a person who worked with me lived with his very nice parents in Southall. We used to visit one another's homes but Peter's parents found themselves gradually surrounded by asians, so like their erstwhile neighbours before, decided to move. Southall now is at least 90% of foreign inhabitants, thus displacing all the original indigenous peoples. There has been a creeping of such in all directions, towards Uxbridge and Central Ealing. Hanwell has been much effected, so has Norwood Green and many parts of Acton to S/Bush. Perivale, Wembley not to mention Harlesden, Willesden, so it is not just a question of a few but almost a wipe-out. I appreciate London is not alone in this , Birmingham and Leicester are tipped to become places where indigenous whites will be the minority, so we ain't talking little villages. For all these incomers there are at least the same number of displaced persons, indigenous persons and their need for flight I regard as grossly immoral on the part of those who have engineered / allowed the mass iunflux and subsequent displacement to occur. The last I read, albeit 2 years ago I think, 2.7 million of white Londoners have seen fit to flee, known as the White Flight from London. As to the point re wealth of 2nd and 3rd generation of immigrants, I do not see how that features in anyone's concern re the effects of immigration, certainly doesn't in mine and whereas the vast majority of persons have the same concerns as mine re immigration, I have never heard the question of wealth being mentioned. Maybe your friends are different.

Tony Price ● 6421d

What do you use to research and have such a vast knowledge of extremists. How you luvvies turn everything around, for your information this programme, is a documentary and exposes the farcical situations that arise when illegals are caught there, and believe me there are many. They destroy their passports and ID so we are unable to deal with them, or send them back. They are put under arrest, sent to a police station, and here is what you ought to refer as priceless, they are let out on bail, and told to report to the immigration centre, you won't be surprised that 85% do not do so, and disappear. There is no bias attached to this programme, you see it how it happens. Bin Laden incidentally is not only trying to create divide and conflict, but you forget conveniently that he has a hand in the Bali bombing, the USS Cole, the World Trade Centre, and praised the 7/7 bombers who in case you have forgotten killed 52 people on our transport system, if anybody is simple I should take a good look at these incidents and tell me again I'm simple? Some extremists who we have allowed to settle here, have been found later in Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban and kill our own sevice men and women You are an idiotic left wing luvvie, who cannot see the wood for the trees! Are you happy that people are getting through our borders, who we do not know who they are, and worse still where they are from. For someone who is alleged to be against insults, you seem to be the usual typical luvvie hypocrite! It is reported that there are an estimated 1,000,000 illegals in this country, but idiots like you are unconcerned. Now that is what I call Priceless.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6421d

Re You speak of our country being given away – how so? It is still here. The services we expect are still here; at least as much here as they have been over the last 20-30 years. Until this last 12 months the GDP growth has been steadily positive for many, many years. And the problem of this last 12 months was not caused by new comers to the UK xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx of course the country physically is still here but unrecognisable in many areas due to the change in inhabitants, and there's the rub.We only partially recognise it because many of the buildings and parks are what we and our forefathers made them, but they are being changed, witness Southall, and all the other areas I have mentioned. And the changes are not for the better, more like a giant rubbish tip. The question of the causation of the credit crunch I do not see as relevant, except the amounts spent on immigrants, many of whom are on benefits, could well be directed to those more worthy of help.

Tony Price ● 6421d

Re and working along side me on similar or even higher salaries are professional, educated, tax paying 2nd and 3rd generation non-white people. Communicating in better English than me. Being impressive management executives. This is the legacy of immigration. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I feel sure those are a miniscule minority of immigrants, past and present, the vast majority being on benefit or unemployed. Those of Pakistani and Bengali origin fall into that category. Indians not so, but Somalis are 80% in subsidised or social housing and otherwise on benefits. Poles work hard as do most from elsewhere in Europe, part of our ethic. And don't forget, if the breadwinner of a family can get to the UK, he can claim Welfare bens for all his wive(s) and children back home. Practically all marriages are bogus, same here as elsewhere in Europe where stiff restrictions have had to be imposed. Ask the Danes.

Tony Price ● 6421d

Re I’ve never seen a complaint about injustice from excessive benefits given to white people. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx probably because we are talking re immigrants!, and you have missed a post I made recently on the question of welfare claimants wherein I said I would give 6 months notice and stop the lot for everyone, and then start again on tight conditions but only for the genuine.

Tony Price ● 6421d

Re your recollection of life in west London is not the scenes you see walking down the street. This is called change. London has been changing as long as I’ve been here – and it will change for long after. You do not have any right to shout ‘stand still’ – because it will not happen, and because your generation was also guilty of change just as much as this one is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I think hitherto our country has remained of a european state, as befits our culture, history and well being. For some reason you prefer an asian type surrounding, but I and most prefer to be among our own and with what we recognise as being of us. You apparently don't, so in the asianised country you will presumably feel more at home but I don't think many will be pleased to join you in that endeavour. Fortunately I have a bolt-hole here in the Shires but not everyone is as fortunate.

Tony Price ● 6421d

Re Didn't like my point about pensions, education and the health service then. Didn't fit your right wing agenda? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I have just read this post ( am reading all through the latest posts and what a laugh this thread is. Whatever anyone thinks of Michael's views, which I share, as do most people , but his style is different but accept it as it is. To those who do not share his views, you should realise people like him who express themselves as he does, add interest to life and this Forum in particular. This Forum would be much worse off without him, dull and full of inconsequentia. ) but to get back to the words above from our Penneth, what had you said/ meant re pensions, education and health service.

Tony Price ● 6421d

TonyTheir heads are so near their backsides they will never be convinced. I was born on a council estate in Brentford.I recently went back there at the time children were going to school. The majority I would say were Somali's,many Asian and hardly any white kids at all. Tony you said:-"Fortunately I have a bolt-hole here in the Shires but not everyone is as fortunate."At the present rate of immigration, London and other major cities will be unable to cope with the demand, and the gutless politicians will bury their heads in the sand (not forgetting the trough!)and send them to the rural areas. So get ready when proposals are made to build on green spaces.......unless of course the luvvies have alternative suggestions? Are we prepared for this, and do we want that?Consider this bit of information luvvies and then let me know if you still want uncontrolled immigration? Yes we are certainly in for change..but not for the better!The population of the UK reached 61 million in mid-2007, according to ONS estimates released on 21 August 2008. UK population has grown by more than a fifth since 1950 - in less than a lifetime, in one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and our numbers are rising faster than ever before. UK population is growing by more than 400,000 a year - and at the recent growth rate of 0.6% a year would reach 100 million before the end of this century, passing 200 million by 2206. These estimates outstrip the last four official projections. Although a third* of the public believe population growth to be the most serious threat to the future wellbeing of Britain, no political party has a clear policy to reverse it. Act now. Call for an population policy - stabilisation and gradual decrease by 2050

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6421d

Yippee........outstrips 'House for rent'Can we make it to 200?

Penny Crocker ● 6421d

The only trouble with this topic is it takes ages to reach the bottom of the page to click on to the next reply!Surely there must be an easier way to do this instead of re:re:re: etc?

Jean F Fernandez ● 6421d

No, stop it now. Its unfair to pick on one person like this (and besides it may mean beating the 'how to write a rant' thread in number of posts). Plus its all getting to the point Andrew has reached - there is no point in trying to convince the opposite party as their view point will not be changed. So it may perhaps be best to agree to disagree - and stop here.

Alan Clark ● 6421d

Yes - Just stop now - everyone has had their say and to be honest I can't see who will come out on top. Things will be repeated over and over again and nothing will be resolved.STOP NOW!!!!

J Smith ● 6421d

Verification Required ● 6421d

.......and maybe we can claim some kind of prize for the most harmonious thread in a forum ever.

Penny Crocker ● 6421d

True, but if we mentioned Hitler then other dictators would also get hauled in, Mussolini, Stalin, Thatcher?

Penny Crocker ● 6421d

Verification Required ● 6421d

In Response To: True, but if we mentioned Hitler then other dictators would also get hauled in, Mussolini, Stalin, Thatcher? Gordon Brown and his Anti-terror laws that you lot keep moaning about. Oh! I almost forgot, he is one of your PC Luvvie Heroes, You admire him for locking up anybody without trial......strange lot you luvvies.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6421d

Surely there must be an easier way to do this instead of re:re:re: etc? Yes Jean there is a way to do it. Stop the little school girls Crocker,Kelly, and the nutter Helena whoever, to answer the questions posed on here, instead of trying to be smartarses........but in spite of being asked to define what EXACTLY it is that upsets their little liberal luvvie PC minds.....To think the suffragettes died to get them the vote. They must be all turning in their graves now.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6421d

Yes we got the message don't wear it out. You are a clever person, award yourself a gold star when you return to school OK?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6421d

Cackling wildly

Penny Crocker ● 6421d

Yup he's quite mad.

Tony Wood ● 6421d

"Cackling wildly"A normal day then. Haven't you got any washing or ironing to do?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6421d

'Haven't you got any washing or ironing to do?'Is there a Mrs AMJA doing yours?

Graham Weeks ● 6420d

Verification Required ● 6420d

'Haven't you got any washing or ironing to do?'Is there a Mrs AMJA doing yours?Yes she is. I have just brought her a brand new LG washing machine 30 degree wash cycle and spins at 1200 rpm, for the ironing she has the most modern one complete with its own water tank for steam. Why do you ask young men, Ms Crocker usually asks the questions. Or are you trying to be her knight in shining armour. Leave it alone, she's not your type?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6420d

Question: If we are so nasty in this country why do so many people flock to these shores?

Jean F Fernandez ● 6420d

Re there at the time children were going to school. The majority I would say were Somali's,many Asian and hardly any white kids at all. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX what I can't understand is why some on this Forum say they are not concerned re such a situation. As I have pointed out before in other threads, those we now see in schools are the future citizens of our Borough and hardly any will be of European origin, ie WE will be phased out, as is apparent already in places like Southall. So why should anyone not be alarmed with their forthcoming demise, such an attitude is totally unprecedented and unnatural.These avowed modernists sure have some strange views and death wish, or do you think they are sleep-walking into oblivion, as Trev. Phirrips said some little while ago.

Tony Price ● 6420d

Re No-one has accused another person of being hitler yet so this can not be finished yet xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx where has "Sage" Kelly got to, she's usually good for a laugh

Tony Price ● 6420d

Re and maybe we can claim some kind of prize for the most harmonious thread in a forum ever. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx well Penny, you have been a good contributor to that end, although I must say you gave me a good laugh with some of your contributions. As I said in a post last night, what a laugh this thread has been, despite it's desperate seriousness. Brought. out " the best " in some people

Tony Price ● 6420d

Question: If we are so nasty in this country why do so many people flock to these shores?Answer: Because they are not told the nature of the populace, only the nature of the benefits.

Alan Brainsby ● 6420d

Re but if we mentioned Hitler then other dictators would also get hauled in, Mussolini, Stalin, Thatcher? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx that tends to give the game away?.

Tony Price ● 6420d

Re I have a good friend called Helena Anne Basquette if that helps .. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx is she a descendant of Madame de Farge.

Tony Price ● 6420d

"Question: If we are so nasty in this country why do so many people flock to these shores?"JeanThe luvvies will tell you how their arrival has enhanced our lives. But in reality our generous benefit system, gives quite a number of them money for doing sod all. Free health care, priority housing, education for their children etc etc. But the luvvies don't mind paying extra cash in taxes....do you luvvies? Generous lot aren't they, but they are none too keen in speaking up for the English though!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6420d

Re Cackling wildly xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx it's usually old hens that do that my dear, I should be careful if I were you.

Tony Price ● 6420d

Re and have fun and good times with the other people xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx what, with your idol Jo B.

Tony Price ● 6420d

Re If we are so nasty in this country why do so many people flock to these shores? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx very pertinent queation Jean. I have been told :- a) welfare benefits ( and can't believe their luck in getting paid for fornicating) b) revenge, for colonialism c) in the case of Muslims, each one to contribute their part in bringing about the Caliphate. d) everything laid on a plate for them, house, all mod cons , car, mobiles etc etc. e) give birth on NHS for free. f) fleeing from justice in their own country and to continue their crimes here without known record.

Tony Price ● 6420d

Re but they are none too keen in speaking up for the English though! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx what do you think lies behind this hatred of self, Some hidden guilt, personal or collective?, whatever, certainly most strange

Tony Price ● 6420d

Re only the nature of the benefits. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and I read yesterday the Govt. are bringing in plans to help " minorities " through the recession, having been in discussion with the current version of the Commission for Racial Equality, minorities ostensibly described as also state pensioners, disabled , unwaged etc etc, but as I cannot imagine the Govt. giving more money to those categories, it is a cover-up to give more to ethnic minorities.

Tony Price ● 6420d

'Why do you ask young men,'There is only one of me. I am no longer exactly young at 62 and wonder if you are by comparison, able to call me so.I enquired as you were directing females here to the kitchen and wondered if yours was occupied.

Graham Weeks ● 6420d

Re If we are so nasty in this country why do so many people flock to these shores?You left out those who come for better paid work

Graham Weeks ● 6420d

Ordinary pensioners are expected to live on a pittance - if they give any increase with one hand they take it away with the other! One would have to be a failed banker to be guaranteed a pension way beyond one's wildest dreams!The bankers should be getting handcuffs not handouts!The benefits system in this country should be completely overhauled in my opinion but I doubt whether this government or indeed any other government would have the courage to do to anything about it.Able-bodied people really should not be living on benefits for years and years, it is a lifestyle choice for many. Why should they bother working when the benefits system gives them all they could ever ask for without lifting a finger? Can it be right when someone is better off by NOT working because their benefits would be cut if they find employment?The welfare system was originally set up to help those in society who were unable to help themselves, and it really shouldn't be handing out dole money for years to people who have never shown any interest in working for a living. Surely there should be a 6 monthly review for those receiving dole money?This country is in the deepest recession in history and it makes sense to overhaul the whole benefits system once and for all.Unless the government gets a grip on the situation they will have to print money and we could end up like Zimbabwe with 'Mickey Mouse' money which is worthless.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6420d

Jean F Fernandez "Question: If we are so nasty in this country why do so many people flock to these shores? "With your surname, I would have thought you could answer that question yourself. So, straight question back, why did you flock to these shores?

S. D. Brock ● 6420d

Simple! I am British born and bred - Fernandez is my married name!As for my husband, in the 60's he left the country of his birth because it was, and still is, a Muslim state where people of other faiths were discriminated against. Homes were advertised only for sale to Muslims. In some parts of the country men and women have to queue separately in shops. They did not tolerate anyone who was not of their faith and trying to force teachers to instruct students in their own language and not teach English in their schools. As this was considered a backward move my sisters-in law who were all teachers decided to migrate to Australia.His brothers were all lawyers who qualified in England and they advised my husband to study in England with the intention of moving to Australia on qualification.His father fought for the British Army.I could go on but you get the point I am sure so I think this entitles me to ask the question!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6420d

Jean - you have successfully answered your own question! The reasons your husband and his family flocked to these shores are the same kind of reasons most other immigrants do, to escape discrimination, war etc. and to try and make a better life for themselves through work and education. It is a small minority who come to milk the system and I agree this should be stopped by properly applied laws, and by closing loopholes in the law; not prejudice and discrimination against the individuals (or in the case of the two troglodyte trolls, discrimination against whole races and thousands of hard working, law abiding immigrants who make a great contribution to our economy). I think most people would agree that there is a case for keeping immigrant numbers to a manageable level so that schools, hospitals etc. can cope,and integration is smoothly executed to the benefit of all, but again, problems here need to be addresssed at government level, not by self-appointed dinosaurs who should be sliding quietly into their dotage instead of trying to incite riots.

S. D. Brock ● 6420d

HiHave been watching this thread for several days now and all I can say is that it has gone on for far too long. You all have valid points which have been put across in several ways and you are now completing a cycle and about to start again. Some of the postings here have been a bit personal and I am afraid to say downright rude.You've all had your say and expressed your opinions and I think it is best now that leave this topic.

J Smith ● 6420d

The name Fernandez has it's origins in Portugal, who have very long connections with England spanning many hundreds of years. Unlike the Davies-Brock's who have no history here, hyphenated surnames are used to portray their self importance, not forgetting the snob value.You could have answered my question about your insults to me, so I don't expect Jean will be taking any advice from the likes of you IMO!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6420d

I think most people would agree that there is a case for keeping immigrant numbers to a manageable level so that schools, hospitals etc. can cope,and integration is smoothly executed to the benefit of all, but again, problems here need to be addressed at government level, not by self-appointed dinosaurs who should be sliding quietly into their dotage instead of trying to incite riots.At last she has realised that immigration should be kept at a manageable level, Christ this woman is thick. Take a ride away from your little cosseted world, open those peepers and see if in your valued opinion integration is or has ever taken place.In case you had not noticed there are plenty of laws in place to prevent any abuse to the benefit system, but it is the luvvies like you who sabotage any changes which would prevent any further abuse. Stick to the Elsie and Doris routine, because like your denial of the proliferation of Cannabis and the abuse directed towards me that followed my post. And you have the brass neck to complain about abusive comments when it is returned. People who live in glass houses.......Wake up woman, and take your head from up your a***, start speaking up for our own people, just for once, who can't get their children in to the first, second or in some cases third choice of a school. But no doubt you don't have a problem with schools or housing.......

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6420d

Re country of his birth because it was, and still is, a Muslim state where people of other faiths were discriminated against. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jean, isn't it strange that whereas such is endemic in " their " countries, when Muslims come here, voluntarily one might add, they demand freedom for their co-religionists and that we adapt to their ways, such as halal meat in schools meaning non muslims have to eat it and be deprived of their normal diet or the recent classic example of LORD! Ahmed preventing an invitee coming to the House of Lords.

Tony Price ● 6419d

Re (or in the case of the two troglodyte trolls, discrimination against whole races and thousands of hard working, law abiding immigrants who make a great contribution to our economy).to the benefit of all, , not by self-appointed dinosaurs who should be sliding quietly into their dotage instead of trying to incite riots. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thanks madam, that's the best yet, so revealing, unbelievable. Try facts and argument in lieu of bile and venom. When's the next laugh.

Tony Price ● 6419d

Re You could have answered my question about your insults to me, so I don't expect Jean will be taking any advice from the likes of you IMO! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx well I must say Michael, that post of her lady-ship was a classic, sporting immense frustration but it did provide me with a jolly good hearty laugh, which I am sure was not her lady-ship's intention but was nonetheless, the result. Try to imagine the thoughts and emotions that lay within it.

Tony Price ● 6419d

Re You could have answered my question about your insults to me, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx there may well be a hidden agenda behind them

Tony Price ● 6419d

Posted by: Sheila Davies-Brock Date/Time: 05/07/07 14:34:00 Andrew Michael John Atkinson you are such a card! LOL! Victor Meldrew is alive and well and still hilarious. All these international reprobates you encounter – wow! A Vietnamese cannabis farm in Hounslow - Lordy, the mind boggles! This is a sample of the abusive response given by SBD. Will she now have the bottle to answer it I had seen at first hand the damage that had been caused to someones property.......this is the sympathy she offered to the landlord at the time.......£42,000 to put it right. And she finds it hilarious......says it all don't it?Before this thread is finally laid to rest. I have again reproduced a posting from Ms Sheils Davis -Brock. This is from the woman, who although fond of dishing out insults herself, for no other reason but to make herself look big goes into a frenzy of further abuse when it is returned!. Notice there is no argument put up against my thread. She and others among her equally ignorant cohorts, accused me of posting under an assumed name, and even when proved wrong, silence was the order of the day. Well Ms Davis-Brock have you checked up on the proliferation of cannabis farms in this country, or have I the police and the Beeb got it completely wrong. Your superior knowledge would be appreciated. Please let her answer the question for herself, along with her reason / or evidence to have prompted her to answer in this manner!Anyone else can answer the other questions that have thus far remained unanswered viz what SPECIFIC posts/subjects caused offence.......examples? And why NONE of you have requested that the moderators ban me and Tony Price from this forum......why not? Try to stick to specifics, I already know the personal opinions of me already, and I will answer with the same proviso, also omitting the dreaded L***ie word fair enough?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6418d

Well! As I guessed Madam Sheila Davis-Brock will not/cannot answer a straight question, but is not slow in name calling. So "Gentle Ealing," these are the people who will gladly watch while your country is sold up the Swanee!! Yes luvvies you have a lot on your consciences to answer for.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6418d

David Archer ● 6418d

Re Anyone else can answer the other questions that have thus far remained unanswered viz what SPECIFIC posts/subjects caused offence.......examples? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx facts is facts, as they say Andrew, that's why the opposition resort to personal abuse, some of which has been rather disgusting. Better to be the victim however, then one's conscience is clear.

Tony Price ● 6418d

Re So "Gentle Ealing," these are the people who will gladly watch while your country is sold up the Swanee!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx do you know Andrew, one effect postings on this Forum have had on me?. It is that maybe Ealing is not worth " saving " if some persons on here are representative. If it goes down the pan, I can scoot off to Hampshire and leave the Davis-Brockes and their ilk to the tender mercies of the new inhabitants :- Boy, 16, arrested in gangland killing as friends of second knife victimwarn of 'race war' between Somalis and AfghansBy Charlotte Gill and Matt SandyLast updated at 11:07 AM on 21st February 2009A 16-year-old boy has been arrested in connection with the murder of ateenager who was one of two knifed to death in London, police saidtoday.Michael Wright was found with fatal stab wounds outside a train stationin an apparent gang killing on Thursday.The Metropolitan Police said a 16-year-old suspect was in custody at aneast London police station.The forced added that a woman in her 30s had also been arrested onsuspicion of assisting an offender and was in custody.The 17-year-old was one of two teenagers who were stabbed to deathwithin hours of each other in a night of bloodshed on London's streets.Michael was attacked in Leytonstone Road, opposite Maryland rail stationin east London, at about 10.30pm. He died at the Royal London Hospitalshortly after being found.His friends, many hiding their faces with scarves or hoods, gathered atthe scene yesterday to lay flowers and pay their respects as a largenumber of police looked on.Bleir Xhana, 26, who runs a bar yards from where the incident happened,said: 'A customer walked in and said they saw a black guy just lyingthere on the zebra crossing near the station.'I didn't know what had happened to the boy but I was horrified andafraid.'To be honest it is quite dangerous round here.'The dead man's brother also visited the scene yesterday to lay flowers.He said: 'I have no idea why it happened or why he was stabbed - no onewas after him.'He was a very popular nice lad and we were tight. I'm proud of mybrother and I am just gutted.'The attack on Michael Wright came just three hours after 19-year-old KulHawalied was stabbed to death in a separate incident in Wealdstone,north-west London.The university student was knifed in the chest by a group of thugs in asuspected gang war between Somlais and Afghanis.Mr Hawalied, from north-west London, was treated by paramedics but waspronounced dead at the scene. Another teenager was also injured.The earlier killing happened at 7.30pm as Mr Hawadleh and an 18-year-oldfriend stopped at a service station in Wealdstone, north west London.As the pair, who are both Somali, got out of their car, four or fiveyouths on the other side of the road saw them and came over to confrontthem.They knifed Mr Hawadleh and his companion before fleeing on foot.Mr Hawadleh died at the scene while his friend is in a stable conditionin hospital.A friend of the two men, Abdul Hassan, 22, said that the pair wereattacked in a race gang war by Afghanis.He said: 'I'm sure the guys who killed Hassan didn't know him, they arejust targeting any Somalis.'There was a stabbing on Wednesday, and then yesterday afternoon two ofmy other friends got ran up to by a gang of guys in bandanas.'They are all Afghan or black and they are targeting Somalis.'Hassan was not involved in anything like this, there is no reason hewould be targeted. Everyone loved the guy.'Mr Hawadleh moved to the UK with his family when he was one year old andwas studying media at the University of East London.He was one of eight siblings. His sister Ubed said: 'We don't know whyhe got stabbed, I don't know why anyone would want to hurt him.'We have a real problem in society today - stabbing has just become thenorm - it has replaced fist fighting. People's lives are no longervalued.'Hassan was not the sort of person to get involved in any fighting. Hewasn't the sort of boy to hang out in gangs, he was a sensiblecharacter.'His brother, Yonis, 29, said: 'He had a real zest for life. He reallywanted to go into the media business and travel around the world.'He was never in trouble with the police. He just wasn't like that. Hewas with his mates from uni going to play football.'He didn't know the people who attacked him. He was just in the wrongplace at the wrong time. We're not sure if his friends knew them, wedon't know anything more.'Another friend, 23-year-old Issaq Soul, said: 'There is a war going onbetween the Afghans and the Somalis.'The tension has been building. They want to call the shots around here.They are completely lawless. But Kul wasn't caught up in all that.'There have been no arrests in either case.The two deaths bring the total of teen killings in London to three thisyear. Last year, 28 teenagers were killed in the capital.Police are appealing for witnesses to Mr Hawalied's killing.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Ealing has the largest number of Somalis in London, and someone said to me once, there are more Afghans here than in Kabul, so with the ethnics all getting on well together and loving the indigenous whites, coupled with all having driving licences and insurance, the future looks " different " to say the least.

Tony Price ● 6418d

Just read an interesting article in the press yesterday:"New Storm over migrant figures: Minister in fresh attacks on statistics chiefs."The independent statistics body for Britain has a 'sinister' attitude to immigration, a minister has claimed.Phil Woolas questioned the motives of the Office for National Statistics in publishing figures showing one in nine UK residents was born abroad.The immigration minister revealed that he had tried to prevent the organisation publishing the data and accused it of 'playing politics'.Ministers appear to be going on the offensive against the ONS and its chief statistician, Karen Dunnell, after a series of rows over official data.But Mr Woolas's broadside is likely to trigger a backlash from MPs, who say the body must be able to collect information and provide impartial analysis free from Government interference.Ministers were said to be 'fizzing' with anger last month after the ONS published figures showing the growing numbers of immigrants getting jobs while the British workforce declines.It revealed that the number of foreign workers increased by 175,000 to 2.4 million last year while the number of British fell by 234,000 to 27 million.Labour scources suggested the timing of the release was a political act designed to embarrass Gordon Brown over his controversial 'British jobs for British workers' slogan.It came as workers angry about jobs going to foreigners took part in wildcat strikes at oil refineries and power stations across the country. Then last week, the ONS published statistics showing foreign-born people make up one in nine of the population of the UK.In a letter to Sunder Katwala, head of the Left-wing Fabian Society, Mr Woolas said most people believed it was the Government that had released the data.'In fact it was the ONS with no ministerial involvement and indeed despite my objections,' he added. 'What's worse is that the press release highlighted the one in nine figures as the main finding.''So Government gets the blame by some for whipping up anti-foreign sentiment when it is the independent ONS who are playing politics.'The justification from the ONS who had, out of schedule, highlighted the figure...because it was "topical" is at best, naive, or, at worst, sinister.'Mr Woolas insisted the fact that one in nine people who are in Britian was born overseas was 'neither new nor informative'. He said it included around 370,000 undergraduates who will not stay in this country and a quarter of a million children born to British armed forces personnel serving overseas.Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'The way ministers are behaving over crime and immigration figures is little short of disgrace.'When they can, they manipulate the figures for their own political purposes and when they can't they launch hysterical rants at the independent statistics office.'Sir Andrew Green, head of MigrationWatch think tank, said: 'It's extremely unfortunate if a minister gives an impression of bullying the official ststisticians for doing no more than setting out the facts, however inconvenient they may be for the Government of the day.'To imply that there is sime sinister motive in simply telling the truth is astonishing.'Last night, Mr Woolsd was unrepentant saying: 'The ONS need to be aware that they are entering shark-infested eaters. It's not the role of ONS to dictate a debate.'The ONS said 'We will not be responding to this letter.'It seems they would prefer to stifle the truth!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6418d

"The independent statistics body for Britain has a 'sinister' attitude to immigration, a minister has claimed."What he is really saying Jean, is that they don't want us to know what a balls up they have made on immigration issues. There is a suggestion that, as they cannot do anything about illegal immigration, which figures have shown to be between 500,000-1,000,000 might well be offered an amnesty, what sort of message does that send out to those waiting in Calais? As I had already said, none of the luvvies have been able to tell us a)where are the schools, b)Who will pay for their health care, c)Housing, and as we all know in a deep recession what will they be doing to keep themselves, if and when they become legal, they will be entitled to all sorts of benefits, who will be footing the bill AGAIN.......Perhaps the luvvies of Ealing will oblige and let me know. I know that they won't give a stuff for the elderly. Just heard on the news that prescription charges will be going up again! Aren't they free in Wales and Scotland. Guess who will be paying for all of this?.....yes you have guessed it.......Us "The Mugs". Over to the luvvies of Ealing for an update?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6418d

Re It seems they would prefer to stifle the truth! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx of course they are and no need to wonder why. Awake persons can see for themselves, despite what the ostriches say. I think there must be as many ostrich farms in Ealing and our environs as there are cannabis farms. And don't forget, the point of one in nine persons in Britain being of foreigh BIRTH means just that, ie does not include those of foreign parentage but born here, so the true amount of immigrants is really high on a national basis and in certain areas, very large and the majority. I read today, MI5 are expecting riots this summer onwards which the Police say they will not be able to control, so the Army are standing by and ready. The flashpoint is the takeover of jobs for Britons by immigrants. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony Price ● 6417d

Re Perhaps the luvvies of Ealing will oblige and let me know xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx yeah, and pigs might fly

Tony Price ● 6417d

Just another advantage to GB of mass immigration:- " Why the CIA has to spy on BritainTim ShipmanWednesday, 25th February 2009Tim Shipman says that Britain is now so overwhelmed by Islamist extremists and terrorist plots that our foreign policy has become subservient to our desperate need for intelligenceOn the night of the Mumbai attacks I spoke to an old security source of mine, who has friends in SIS, MI5 and defence intelligence. There was only one thought on the minds of our security chiefs that night: ‘Are they British?’"

Tony Price ● 6415d

Bit more info for the ostriches :- " By MI5’s own admission, there are 2,000 terrorists suspects in the UK, perhaps twice that number who are susceptible to recruitment. As Jonathan Evans, the director-general, put it in January: ‘We don’t have anything approaching comprehensive coverage.’ MI5 deserves great praise for thwarting numerous attacks but sources say the Security Service can monitor, at most, two live plots at a time.Into the vacuum have stepped the Americans. The CIA is now running its own agent networks on an unprecedented scale in the British Pakistani community. A British security source told me that somewhere between 40 and 60 per cent of CIA activity designed to prevent a new terrorist spectacular on American soil is now directed at targets in the UK "

Tony Price ● 6415d

Something for the ostriches to ponder:- " As far as our closest ally is concerned, Britain is not part of the problem, Britain is the problem. Bruce Riedel, a former CIA officer and Middle East expert on the NSC for three presidents, who has just been appointed to head Barack Obama’s overhaul of Afghan strategy, told me: ‘The 800,000 or so British citizens of Pakistani origin are regarded by the American intelligence community as perhaps the single biggest threat environment that they have to worry about.’ "

Tony Price ● 6415d

Just had this e mail from a friend " up North " which is yet another example of the ill effects of immigration to we indigenous traditional members of the population. For ages our lot have had to take a back seat in social housing, now it seems in schooling as well, and it would seem, at the behest of " those in charge " :- "My youngest daughter has moved away from where she used to live but is still in touch with a friend of hers who is a school governor at the school my grand-daughter used to attend. This friend tells us that local English parents are being refused places at the primary school if they don't have older siblings there but ALL Polish and other immigrant children are being accepted even if they don't have older siblings because the school receives extra funding for them."

Tony Price ● 6415d

This government and those in authority are simply storing up problems for ALL the population by singling out minorities for special treatment and ignoring the silent majority!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6415d

Yes I fully agree with your sentiments Jean. But I don't think the luvvies will ever wake up to reality. You have seen their brand of "debate". Abuse, after abuse. They sit back and watch this country rapidly lose it's identity and way of life. Especially for the luvvies to read and digestAccording to the ONS, if all of these factors were on the high side over the coming decades, the population across the UK would hit 91,053,000 by the middle of the century - and 108,723,000 by 2081. If migration alone proved to be high, then the population would top 75m by 2031 and rise to 92m by 2081. Perhaps one of the bright sparks from the liberal left can give us an idea of where they could/should settle? And how this would enhance our country....one sentence will suffice!Spare me the insults, I have heard them all now!!!!!!!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6415d

Birth control?

George Knox ● 6414d

BBC Panorama did not tell us really anything that we don’t already know. What the programme did not deal with except briefly is how the application of benefits laws and amounts payable, plus the rights to housing, vary from EU country to country. For instance I gather the French pay approximately the same benefits, but in Spain it is extremely difficult to get housing rights.So what we do know is that Migration Watch do not support illegals being rounded up in tens of thousands and shipped out at once. Difficult to argue with that one.The Mayor reckons that if illegals have a lot to contribute such as someone who grew up here and has had a university training and was a very good teacher (who had to be replaced with two teachers) should be considered as possibly being given amnesty. Can’t dispute that myself.The Immigration minister tells us in a round about way that the Immigration office is still not fit for purpose After 12 years of running the show he feebly says that perhaps it was not realised until now how difficult the immigration issues are to manage. It was not stated by how much the illegals (known to be) coming here are exceeding those who are being removed. Actually the removals dropped last year to about 12,000 people. Whatever the Tories say, at the present rate of removals, perhaps it will take 100 years to close the last file, assuming of course people and files all can be found.No doubt the captain of the S.S. Windrush (formerly owned by the fascist filth) can tell us if passports were stamped both in and out for all of us during the 1950’s. I just have a feeling they were. It will take some 6 more years before this starts again. I raised it some 8 years ago.Where status is not checked I think is what happens in the Hospitals, and almost definitely not in the schools. Better to keep the kids off the streets.Some one on Panorama trotted out the usual rubbish that the illegals are doing jobs which no one else wants to do. Who did those jobs thirty to fifty years ago, and more particularly why did they do what the media tells us that they will not do today?The idle indigenous who complain about the growing non indigenous peoples have got their just deserts. Sloth is a sin for Christians???? If we cry now, should it be with hatred and anger?Interesting that no Liberal MP was included in the programme. It’s no use for AMJA to keep bashing them, because they will never be the government to take decisions for decades. The people who will be taking the decisions will be one of the other two lots. They either are too incompetent on their own admission, or make promises which are extremely difficult to see as being more effective as they would wish. I am not clear anyway that Liberals are sympathetic to lax control of immigration.What I suspect may happen is that the status quo will continue for quite some time. The establishment just don’t know how to deal with the issues, apart from, up to a certain extent, closing the pincers. It is undoubtedly true that very many more checks are made these days and the immigration rules are tighter than they were before say 2002 and especially since 2008. Now if what I say is not greatly removed from reality, it is quite fatuous to ask what answers the so called Luvvies on these threads have for him. If they are Liberal voters their answers will not substantially change the course of politics. AMJA blusteringly asks the wrong question and so, apart from his very offensive (and sometimes misogynist) and vulgar language, he cannot in all honesty expect an answer. Hence the lack of response. Had he been courteous through and through, in the face of hostility even, this would have been an interesting discussion.So if we do have to continue listening to such a tainted rush of wind, it is much more appropriate to ask what the non Luvvie AMJA thinks the answers are - and what he will do about them (apart from casting a vote). He is old enough to work that out for himself, instead of asking Nannie. But he should be aware that in Ealing’s temperature check last year just 5% of some three thousand people thought that immigration was a serious issue.It would be well if he thought exceedingly deeply about what it is like to suffer very great pain through extreme deprivation and violence. There is not a shred of evidence that he has. He would not have to be a Luvvie to do so.

George Knox ● 6413d

Lesley Thomas ● 6413d

It's a case of the minority thinking they can speak for the majority!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6413d

Re I gather the French pay approximately the same benefits xxxxxxxxxxxxxx I don't think that can be the case bearing in mind the thousands who assemble constantly at Calais and other European ports to get here, and the French authorities themselves say it happens because of the extent of the benefits we pay and which they don't. Re grew up here and has had a university training and was a very good teacher (who had to be replaced with two teachers) should be considered as possibly being given amnesty xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I don't think Boris is being selective in his amnesty proposal but an all encompasing one?. Gone right off him. Re The idle indigenous who complain about the growing non indigenous peoples have got their just deserts. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Maybe they have but that's not not a sufficient reason for swamping the country with alien persons from abroad, most of whom go on Benefits of one sort or another Re Who did those jobs thirty to fifty years ago, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx exactly, the gliberal left always resort to spurious generalisations, which hold no water. Don't forget they said for years the immigrants were fleeing for their lives and had no time to gather up their papers / documentation, but when that all got disproved, then came the reason for we need them to pay our pensions, whereas the reality is indigs have to work longer to pay the pensions of the immigrants ( have a look in your Council Offices ) Re the immigration rules are tighter than they were before say 2002 and especially since 2008. xxxxxxxxxxxxx but the numbers are still rising massively, witness " doubling to 11 per cent in 2008.Official figures released last month showed that one in nine peopleliving in Britain - 6.5 million people - was born overseas " NOTE, that 11% refers to persons born overseas, to which one must add first and second generation offsprings thereof, which would more than double that percentage. One need only ask oneself why the Govt. have just got so furious because of the immigration figures being released, they want them kept hidden, and those figures are the ONS ones, which traditionally have been proven time and time again to be hopelessly understated. Then one has to add the number of " unknowns ", at least another million. Re But he should be aware that in Ealing’s temperature check last year just 5% of some three thousand people thought that immigration was a serious issue. xxxxxxxxxxxxx I must say I find that very difficult to " understand " , where and who compiled these stats. Why should the people of Ealing be at less than one twelfth or sixteenth of the nation as a whole, for which immigration has become the major concern. IF these figures for Ealing are correct, I can only assume it was only immigrants themselves who were questioned, which ain't too difficult as the Borough as a whole is probably now 60%+ of ethnic origin and some areas almost 100%.

Tony Price ● 6413d

There have been insults on both sides. Michael Atkinson is undoubtedly outnumbered on this forum, not necessarily because he is wrong, because the majority of people who agree with his views are being scared off. I am very reluctant myself but enough is enough.Lesley, I fully respect your opinions of course, but that's exactly what the luvvie brigade want me/us/you to do. I intend to continue to post my thoughts and opinions, until such time as the moderators decide to ban me. One of these luvvies resorted to throwing his toys out of his pram, but would not under any circumstances give any indication as to exactly what he was upset about, as many of his like minded cronies have also refused to do. But I am not intimidated by them! I've heard all the insults before..........I bet not one of them will say how disgusting the muslim demonstrators were, when shouting abuse at our soldiers who were marching through the town.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6412d

If those demonstrators were in receipt of our generous benefits they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, they are not fit to lick the boot of one of our fine soldiers!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6412d

Re If those demonstrators were in receipt of our generous benefits they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx you can bet your boots they are and as for the latter, pigs might fly!. Makes one feel uneasy if, God forbid, there were ever a war which involved fighting within the UK itself, as to against whom these sort would fight. I very much doubt they would be on our side.

Tony Price ● 6412d

French benefits. I asked when in France. You doubt but do not seem to know the facts. So assumptions are made. People come here because quite a few speak some sort of English and many have friends and relatives here. Most immigrants I have spoken to say London is a nice place and they like the people (indigs). London is a magnet. Good Bengali teacher. We disagree. I don’t understand Boris’s generalisations.Idle indigenous. It is just because of that we do have many immigrants. The idleness or lack of robust visionary thinking is the reason. Our parents generation worked and worked. Among their children many are on benefits. Why have these lost the work ethic?. Hence there is what you call swamping to fill the vacuum. Reason and factImmigration -rising figures. The figures are not rising at the same rate as a few years ago. Fact. Why are they rising? Because this government cannot work out how to deal with it. Wrong to blame the immigrants and then whip up antagonism and hatred.Temperature check. You should read the Council site before you start doubting. The evidence and the stats are there. The borough actually is nearer to 40% non white – not 60%. Fact. You can do something useful to your argument by asking the Council to provide the ethnic breakdown of people questioned. Then you could tell us. Our soldiers. Whether or not the demonstrators were on benefits, and whether or not there were other incidents of insulting our soldiers by white kids, the behaviour was an utter disgrace. But who allowed them to do it?. Don’t say the luvvies, because there is no evidence they were there. I liked the photo recently of a Bear Skinned Guard giving a tourist a clip round the ear’ole for being too insulting. But you just blame Muslims. Fact.What I don’t like in these threads is - continual assumptions and bigotry which scarcely are backed up by fact, - or a small fact is used to try and make a major point, - and the agenda which verges on hostility and racism. Opinions flowing mainly from prejudice without proper reasoning and analysis are worthless and dangerous. That is why this horrible thread complaining about intolerance started. It did not start because someone said the Immigration office is not fit.AMJA again fails to answer the key question. What does he think should be done – and how, and what will he himself actually do? Expelling evil wind gets nowhere.

George Knox ● 6412d

Re You doubt but do not seem to know the facts. So assumptions are made. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx neither do you, the French say we are stupid in enticing immigrants with the benefit system, so who is right , them or you. Re Idle indigenous. It is just because of that we do have many immigrants xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx rubbish, so you say millions abroad say to themselves, Oi, there are loads of Brits sat on their asses doing nothing, so I will go and take their jobs. Re Why have these lost the work ethic?. Hence there is what you call swamping to fill the vacuum. Reason and fact xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx no facts, just presumption, hence nonsense Re The evidence and the stats are there. The borough actually is nearer to 40% non white – not 60% xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx more untruths, the census LONG out of date gave the figure of ethnics at almost 50%, since when there has been noticeably many many more. We ain't talking re skin colour but ethnicity. And why would Ealing publish misleading figures. Re and the agenda which verges on hostility and racism xxxxxxxxxxxxxx oh Gawd, not that hackneyed old accusation again, try to think of something original, and even Blair said to discus immigration etc etc is not racist and everyone / anyone should be able to do so. You explain why it is racist. You'll be trotting out " Nazi " next.

Tony Price ● 6412d

It is immaterial what race or colour the demonstrators were, the very fact that they were demonstrating against our soldiers is what I object to.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6412d

Re very fact that they were demonstrating against our soldiers is what I object to. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx exactly, imagine how the soldiers felt, after having laid their lives on the line, even for some of the objectors, but no doubt the woollies in this country will take the side of the mouthy objectors. To cap it all, 2 persons were arrested, but not from the objectors, oh no, the supporters of the soldiers. Can you Adam and Eve it?

Tony Price ● 6412d

BUT, as someone on TV said this morning, we are a democracy and in a democracy, we are allowed to voice our opinions. Why else are out troops in Afghanisthan and Iraq if not to try to bring democracy to them? (there are other reasons of course !) If you stifle people from expressing themsleves, however vile they are, you are playing their game. Would we really want to live in a country where only certain opinions are allowed? I don't agree with many people's opinions on here but they have the right to express them.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

Blair and IDS and anyone else should talk about immigration. You asked me to explain why that is racist. Answer: it is not racist. But you cannot see why you asked the wrong question.****************************Your leader says:-“racism is perpetrated in the allocating of a house to a newly arrived family in preference to Brits”. To me his repeated expressions of opposition to this decision were not just objections to the system of allocations. The process of repetition had a different objective - in reality a propagandist campaign to feed racism. It has this latter emphasis because so very little has focused on how the immigration laws should be changed. If I were AMJA’s next door neighbour and Afghan with many kids and knowing that he wrote this, I would not be at all surprised if he had hostile racist feelings towards me. Combined with his terrible language and bullying approach I might even be nervous for the safety and well being of my family. I would not be comfortable for many reasons. So he says or implies that it is a natural consequence to be racially hostile to the Afghan. OK it happens, but that does not make it right. It’s very wrong. What would be right would be to challenge the system, which has a huge number of wrongs. But neither of you can say what you are going to do about it. Your failure is highly suggestive that you have a different and a sinister agenda. When someone disagrees with you both insult those who by throwing a lot of unsubstantiated bigotry at them. This is not simply because you have been insulted. I get the impression also that neither of you understand the system. You can’t honestly expect anyone to be impressed, can you? ********************************My complaint is limited just to the covert and overt tenor of hostility to immigrants running through these threads, and I shall not depart from this view. That is how you both shame the English. It is also what neither of you wish to or can dislodge or deny. Continuous statements of hostility and failing to deal with challenging the system means you both have lost the argument at the start of this thread.

George Knox ● 6412d

Strange then that the only 2 people arrested for demonstrating were in fact supporting the army! Freedom of speech in a democracy should surely apply to everyone as you mentioned. Perhaps the police are afraid to arrest some members of the community for fear of reprisals.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6412d

Or perhaps the two arrested were guilty of some crime,it's just possible,isn't it?

Tony Wood ● 6412d

Oh I agree..........we either all have freedom or none of us. Can't pick and choose

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

You put it very well George, much better than I. It is very much the tone of the postings, the haranging and the scarcely veiled insults which rile me to respond. Somehow any other opinion is disregarded as childish or naive or silly or schoolgirl etc etc. This negates any more valid points which may be buried in the vitriol. I just wonder at the level of anger in them? It seems that the anger is directed at the wrong people.....pointless badgering us, fellows citizens trying to lead decent law abiding lives. Why not join a poltical party and try to get elected and make a difference?

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

Re BUT, as someone on TV said this morning, we are a democracy and in a democracy, we are allowed to voice our opinions. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx trouble is " they " are using our democracy against us and if / when they gain more power due to INpolitically correct persons in this country, there will be no freedom of speech, or freedom of anything else for that matter. The exercising by them of our democratic ways is used to deny us freedom that we have hitherto taken for granted. Eg, no bibles in hospitals, no celebration as before of Christmas, no carol singing in public places, no statues of pigs in public places, all kids in some schools have to eat halal meat etc etc. Just lie down and be trampled over into oblivion.

Tony Price ● 6412d

Would you rather live in a state where no freedom of speech is allowed? For all its faults and problems, I'm happier here. I have lived in Saudi Arabia and it's not pleasant. Surely far better to allow them to vent their foul opinions and then ignore them. If they break the law, that's a diffeent matter. They are of no consequence and will not win.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

Re Continuous statements of hostility and failing to deal with challenging the system means you both have lost the argument at the start of this thread. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx nonsense, what you refuse to comprehend is the objection is to numbers , not individuals per se, as many of my friends will agree, although I do object to benefits being dished out to persons who flock here for that reason, thereby depriving our own of that money, services and help. Classic example is that Afghan family in Acton screwing us at the unbelievable rate of £12484 per month just for rent alone, plus another £40.000 or so in other benefits. Neither you nor anyone will ever convince me of the need or morality of that, and as Ealing Councillors said to me, it is not an isolated case. As to what would I do about "it", no welfare benefits, no social housing, no NHS treatment except in case of UK accidental derived emergency, no appeal against deportation, no Legal Aid. The excuse quoted ad nauseum of immigration being a long established phenomena are Jews and Hugeneots, NEITHER of whom were a drain on the host country and came here for genuine reasons. Moses Montefiore used to go to Tilbury to receive Jewish immigrants, and look after their welfare, not come straight off the plane and go straight to the nearest D H S S office to start the bens rolling in.

Tony Price ● 6412d

Re Perhaps the police are afraid to arrest some members of the community for fear of reprisals. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx yep, that's it Jean, such is democracy reduced in our own country by the very people who will deny us everything when their influence increases due to inhouse woollies and politically INcorrect persons in our midst. That there are no-go areas for whites and areas where the Police will not venter into speaks for itself, except to those with cloth ears and rose tinted specs.

Tony Price ● 6412d

Re They are of no consequence and will not win. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx but the whole point is, they are " winning ", witness the inhibitions now made on us of our hitherto taken for granted " freedoms ". Even poor little Piglet has been banned. Supposedly,reference to the Holocaust has been banned from our schools 'cos Muslims object. Too bad. I cannot understand how anyone is not alarmed at what is going on. The British Red Cross banned all things Christian in their charity shops so " not to upset the Muslims " and when I wrote protesting, their reason was they operate in countries abroad where Muslims are and who might object to Christian objects here in UK. Well if they do, sod'em, stay away from the UK if that is their feeling and accept no help or charity in the countries where they are. Why do we have such gutless and spineless fools who lie down and not only let themselves be walked over but all of us into the bargain.

Tony Price ● 6412d

My daughter is a teacher in Southall. every religion is taught, every festival celebrated.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

“Classic example is that Afghan family in Acton screwing us”.That terminology is clear racial hostility. It is the system which gave him the house and we don’t know why he cannot work. Making assumptions is the refuge of stupidity."It is not a isolated case". We know that, but again that is not a reason to be hostile to the individuals. White English families do the same.You have explained how you would deal with it. What you have not said is what you are going to do about it. Your leader, who has been accused of racism elsewhere on the blog sites, has talked about cowardice. But it’s convenient for you two to cower beneath the sheets and fail to address the original complaint in this thread. You have been cornered and whine.You have failed to deny that you have a different and a sinister agenda. Where there is smoke there is fire and many will draw conclusions from that.It’s no use ducking and diving by trying to divert back to comprehending objections to numbers and entitlement to benefits until you stop peddling sneering hatred. Only when you both stop will the debate on immigration progress. So far you have lost the argument.

George Knox ● 6412d

"If I were AMJA’s next door neighbour and Afghan with many kids and knowing that he wrote this, I would not be at all surprised if he had hostile racist feelings towards me. Combined with his terrible language and bullying approach I might even be nervous for the safety and well being of my family. I would not be comfortable for many reasons. "Terrible language, were you brought up in a convent? As regards you being nervous as an Afghan living next door to me, I think you ought to get out more George. Should I also feel safe living next door to the Afghan hijackers, who threatened to kill all of the hostages on the aircraft that they hijacked if they didn't get their way, imagine the reception I would receive if I had dared to ask them to turn down their loud music!!!! And regarding the family who were housed at enormous expense to the taxpayer (£12,480 per month) I should be so lucky to live in such opulent surroundings, and sitting on my backside all day,at the same time moaning about being unable to afford to shop at Tesco's rather than their perceived more down market one. Which by the way we are also paying for! But then as an Englishman I am not such a high priority as the newly arrived......I apologise to the luvvies for using Enlish as my nationality...........sorry for this offence!What I love about you luvvies, is not one of you will ever mention the plight of our homeless or the pensioners, who have slogged their guts out for this country, and are now treated as second or third class citizens..........yes we are mugs, and will continue to be mugged while the luvvies of Ealing moan about "terrible language" and "bullying approach", George I suggest that you take a closer look at not only your replies but many of the other fellow luvvies. George would you be shocked to find in Gentle Ealing and living next door to you, that a Bulgarian who had lived in this country for over ten years, was wanted on warrant for homicide in his own country, but knowing you lot you would be moaning about HIS human rights........wouldn't you, and sod the victim(s)? By the way George I have received several Pm's in support of my views. I will NOT change my views as you suggest that you won't either" Our hard one freedoms are being abused, by the very people, who find it acceptable to abuse women, cover them all over in black, while they dress exactly as they choose, deny them the freedom to take up a profession or to be educated, stone women who commit adultery to death, while the men can do as they please. I am talking about the bunch of morons who shouted their disgusting abuse at our brave soldiers, can you imagine what would have happened if we had done the same........you may have not noticed that the two arrests of locals, who found the plackards offensive, were made for a public order offence, while these protesting scroats received police protection, just as their mentor ABU HAMZA receives. Wake up George for Christ sake!!!!!!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6412d

Why not join a poltical party and try to get elected and make a difference? Not the LIB-DEM luvvie party though, you will have read what they think about this country and it's people.......you have been warned!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6412d

If people are happy to support your views, why don't they do so on here? Why the cloak and dagger personal emails?

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

Re My daughter is a teacher in Southall. every religion is taught, every festival celebrated xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx So? but that does mean OUR schools are changed and our own religion and celebrations reduced in significance to no more than any other. To accomodate others is one thing, to thereby reduce our own is something else. And the Holocaust ,and foodstuffs?

Tony Price ● 6412d

Well I don't see their views fitting too well with yours so no, I wasn't suggesting that.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

Re So far you have lost the argument xxxxxxxxxxxxxx rubbish, that you fall back to that means you have. The vast majority of the British public have not " lost the argument ". Your post is one of pathetic abuse, no worthwhile fact, and supply cases of white English families who are recipients of the same as the Afghan family, mention of which is not racist but FACT. The hurling of abuse of that nature backfires onto the hurler, I stand by what and how I said, as did the Press, local and National. Racists all I suppose. Find sensible things to say, not old warn out claptrap. Learn to fail with dignity.

Tony Price ● 6412d

AMJA ignores for instance that I consider what happened to our soldiers was a disgrace, by which I mean the response of the authorities was cowardly. AMJA would be amazed at what else I think.What I do more and more think is that he cannot deny in public that he has a sinister agenda which promotes hatred. Until he stops failing to deal with this point head on, his ability to convince is zero.

George Knox ● 6412d

Re Wake up George for Christ sake!!!!!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I would suggest it is not a matter of can't but more of won't. Just read the abuse in the messages, not normal, refuge of scoundrels very often. Political plants are possible.

Tony Price ● 6412d

"The protesters then had to be protected by police as supporters of the soldiers turned on them."Thought I'd try the favourite technique of selectively quoting from the BBC. The two were arrested for attacking the protestors. You can protest (peacefully) - that is legal, even if your views are objectionable. You cannot phycially attack people - that's called assault. That will be why these two were arrested.So on one hand we have people protesting.On the other, we have people assaulting the protestors.If you were a policeman, who would you arrest?

Alan Clark ● 6412d

"If people are happy to support your views, why don't they do so on here? Why the cloak and dagger personal emails?" I suggest that you read the beginning of this thread, you may just then have an idea why they don't want to, and be open to the abuse from you luvvie liberals. You are from the very vocal minority who, by your actions and words have silenced the majority, with the racist accusations and luvvie mantras hurled about like confetti, as you may have noticed, I can give as good as I get,some are more sensitive to this, and will keep quiet, that is the reason this country is, as I have often said, being sold down the river. Does that answer your question Madam?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6412d

Re If people are happy to support your views, why don't they do so on here? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx but they do, at least the ones that matter

Tony Price ● 6412d

Re If people are happy to support your views, why don't they do so on here? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and in any event, what are your views

Tony Price ● 6412d

Re his ability to convince is zero. cccccccccccccccp another nonsensical generalisation and as it is a contention that cannot be proven, an empty gesture and dismissed as just that.

Tony Price ● 6412d

There is no issue with foodstuffs in her school. All options are available. The Holocaust is taught as part of the National Curriculum in the school. Many of the pupils are Hindu, many Muslim and some Christian.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

Re There is no issue with foodstuffs in her school. All options are available. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx so Kosher food is available, meat by humane slaugher methods, halal and vegetarian all available?. What is the ethnic composition, in numbers therof of each category.?

Tony Price ● 6412d

If you think we're scary enough to frighten people off than I am very surprised. Mine and others' views (in the majority here) are decried by you as being 'childish', 'pathetic', 'schoolgirlish', 'stupid',' you have your head buried in a place where the sun don't shine' 'Their heads are so near their backsides they will never be convinced'....to quote but just a few of your well chosen words from this thread alone. Let's not forget all those on Chiswick, Brentford and Acton threads who also have taken issue with you and now refuse to debate with you because of your tone. Are we all wrong? Clearly you think we are. You don't answer any valid points others put to you because they don't fit your very narrow view of the world.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

"Or perhaps the two arrested were guilty of some crime,it's just possible,isn't it?"The gutless politicians and Chief police officers who instruct their men to act sensitively to ethnic minorities, and at the same time, arrest those who find this abuse of our democracy extremely offensive.........yes I suppose in the eyes of you luvvies a crime was committed by the locals. But the police won't have riots to contend with will they when they are faced with a court appearance and sent on diversity training, whatever that means? In mentioning this, when can we expect some history training for those who arrive here unannounced and claim THEIR RIGHTS?Again we are the criminals.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6412d

I will ask her for you.........though why you need to know I'm not sure.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

Re I will ask her for you.........though why you need to know I'm not sure. xxxxxxxxxx thank you, and your innocence is becoming

Tony Price ● 6412d

300!! That's made my day that has.

Tony Wood ● 6412d

Re 300!! That's made my day that has. xxxxxxxxxxxxx blast, I was waiting to congratulate the poster of the 300th one but can't now!. Never mind, has been a very interesting thread which just goes to prove what is the topic of greatest interest, despite what some would have us believe. Shows how wrong they are in yet another way.

Tony Price ● 6412d

"You don't answer any valid points others put to you because they don't fit your very narrow view of the world".When there is no head on response to them having a sinister agenda - head on - it's called cowardice.That's what duckers and divers do.

George Knox ● 6412d

Re That's what duckers and divers do. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx you're all at sea again, come down to earth

Tony Price ● 6412d

Posted by: Sheila Davies-Brock Date/Time: 05/07/07 14:34:00 Madam Crocker, I know that being a luvvie you only find offence in anything that I post.Before I continue here is a challenge for you; £20 to a charity of your choice if you can reproduce anything that I have posted on the Acton forum...Fair?To continue I have reproduced an item from the W4 site, where debate like the item I have reproduced below, was in response to a concern that I had at the time about the proliferation of cannabis farms around the country, and in spite of many police raids the problem is getting worse. The fact that I had said that they were, in the main operated by South East Asian gangs, and mainly Vietnamese gangs, was enough to get me banned from there. But strange that during your very detailed researches you seem to overlook the many that have been directed at me. Perhaps you will now admonish Ms Sheila Davis-Brock, is her post "Childish, pathetic, schoolgirlish, or stupid" which would you suggest..one or them all? Don't forget the Acton post of mine, you could give the £20 to the Sisters of Southall perhaps!To Quoteyou:-Mine and others' views (in the majority here) are decried by you as being 'childish', 'pathetic', 'schoolgirlish', 'stupid',' you have your head buried in a place where the sun don't shine' 'Their heads are so near their backsides they will never be convinced'This is one of the more "intelligent, and to the point responses that you apparently consider, as you and the other many luvvies seem to find acceptable......luvvies sense of fairness Madam Crocker?Your opinion on this requestedAndrew Michael John Atkinson you are such a card! LOL! Victor Meldrew is alive and well and still hilarious. All these international reprobates you encounter – wow! A Vietnamese cannabis farm in Hounslow - Lordy, the mind boggles! She obviously like you lot are completely out of touch with reality1

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6412d

Methinks you confuse light hearted banter with personal insults. Sheila's post was quite funny and meant in a jovial way I'm sure. I stand corrected on the Acton Forum though...you don't seem to have posted on there. Sadly my £20 donation planned to the Somalian refugee fund can stay in your pocket.

Penny Crocker ● 6412d

AMJA.I see now you are muckraking again at 1609 on 11/3/09. A skill you learnt in the bilges of the 1950s perhaps.How do you expect anyone to rise to your challenge when you and your acolyte cannot take responsibility for answering the charge of having a sinister agenda? Keep digging, but this time it won't be for Victory.

George Knox ● 6412d

Re Sadly my £20 donation planned to the Somalian refugee fund can stay in your pocket. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tony Price ● 6412d

Re cannot take responsibility for answering the charge of having a sinister agenda? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx rejected, but being what exactly, in your opinion.

Tony Price ● 6412d

Re Keep digging, but this time it won't be for Victory. xxxxxxxxxxxxx what will your future be then George, how do you think you will fit in the new Ealing. And how do you think Ealing will fit into the future England. Reasoned argument please, not pious wishful hopes

Tony Price ● 6412d

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4974031/Calls-for-crackdown-on-parade-Muslim-extremists.htmlshows some of us are not alone.

Alan Brainsby ● 6411d

Re shows some of us are not alone. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx extract from Alan's article, and from what some say on this Forum, they would welcome, until it happens then there would be a great weeping wailing and gnashing of teeth , but I doubt if any really believe what they write, as it is so far fetched. " Mr Choudary now leads a group that wants Britain to become an Islamic state and ruled by Sharia law."

Tony Price ● 6411d

what will your future be then GeorgeGood question.But answer mine first.

George Knox ● 6411d

Re But answer mine first. xxxxxxxxxxx I already have

Tony Price ● 6411d

George Knox ● 6411d

Re I don't play games. Until you answer IN FULL what I raised this morning and through the day with both of you, no deal. cccccccccccccccccccccp You seem to ascribe importance to yourself which you don't have, so slink awf and cry into your Nero tear glass. Post dismissed as an antediluvian relic.

Tony Price ● 6411d

" I already have"I don't play games. Until you answer IN FULL what I raised this morning and through the day with both of you, no deal. If you don't answer, then don't ask again. But then you will have lost the argument even if we get to 500 threads.***********************************************************************************************************************Re I don't play games. Until you answer IN FULL what I raised this morning and through the day with both of you, no deal. cccccccccccccccccccccp You seem to ascribe importance to yourself which you don't have, so slink awf and cry into your Nero tear glass. Post dismissed as an antediluvian relic. **********************************************************So you have admitted total defeat in the face of the accusations made against you.We no longer query, but now know that you will not do anything about the immigration issue and you that peddle ill feelings as others will have read in my previous threads.You will of course go on; but it's too late now that we undoubtedly know you for what you are.

George Knox ● 6411d

By Alison Pearson:'God knows, it's hard enough to do two tours of duty in Iraq wiithout coming back to your home town and finding protesters holding up posters of babies you are supposed to have maimed and innocent civilians they claim you have murdered.Disgustingly, that was what happened to the 2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, better known as The Poachers, on the streets of Luton yesterday.One man in Islamic dress held up a placard saying: 'Cowards, Killers, Extremists.' I thought that was your problem. not ours.Perhaps the most depressing sight of all, though, was a group of women covered head to foot in burqas. They were taking pictures of the soldiers and protesters on their mobiles through the tiny slit that allows them to see. There could be no more eloquent picture of failed integration.Those Muslim women live in a free society, a society that gives their menfolk the perfect right to shout abuse at brave British troops.But that same British society has been too nervous and, let's face it, too downright cowardly to insist that immigrant communities both learn and abide by the values of a liberal demoracy.This country's freedoms were made and defended by people like The Poachers. What a disgrace thjat those who benefit most from tolerance want to take those freedoms away.'

Jean F Fernandez ● 6411d

"AMJA.I see now you are muckraking again at 1609 on 11/3/09. A skill you learnt in the bilges of the 1950s perhaps." This is Mr Knox clearly demonstrating his abhorrence at abuse folks, a real genuine luvvie!It looks as though you are doing it yourself George, but I get it now "Don't do as I do" I'm a luvvie, so do as I say!So by demonstrating that I can go back and research what has been said about my posts is muck raking is it George, you are obviously a very fair minded luvvie aren't you. Read the "muck raking" of a certain Ms Crocker on this thread, she has even trawled through the Acton web site, to suggest I was hounded out of there..very clever that, considering I have never posted there. You may or may not have noticed I have put up £20 to a charity of her choice to produce a shred of evidence to back this up. The other sites she has mentioned W4 and TW8, yes I have ruffled a few of the luvvies feathers, strange that when you listen or read one luvvies views you have read them all..strange but true George! So what exactly is it that you want an answer to....I will do my best to do so, which is more than you lot do.......What EXACTLY is my hidden agenda, it's not hidden, I fervently believe that the Brits should take priority in EVERYTHING, whereas you want them at the back,that's the difference between you and I George..Charity begins at Home OK?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6411d

One man in Islamic dress held up a placard saying: 'Cowards, Killers, Extremists.' I thought that was your problem. not ours.JeanMessrs Knox, Wood, Clark and the other Ealing Liberal luvvies see this as a protest,not evidently as an outrageous abuse of free speech but also an insult to our people who tolerate their wierd shariah laws, but you wait until somebody says something unislamic, and just watch these luvvies as they go in to overdrive, to hurl their abuse at us....You ain't seen nuttin from them yet Jean!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6411d

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7937761.stmI suppose someone will tell us this is a bit of fiction out of the film studios on Ealing Green.

Alan Brainsby ● 6411d

Re http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7937761.stm xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx they come here Alan 'cos they speak English and despite the fact bens in France are equal to what they can get here, which is contrary to what the French themselves say, but George has found out the French are wrong. Useful chap is George.

Tony Price ● 6411d

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7938173.stmWell the developers better get a move on with Dickens Yard and the Glengherkin complex!I quote from the article:"It would mean by 2050, Britain would have a population of nearly 72.4 million - overtaking Germany on 70.5 million as Europe's largest country."But at least Germany can expand...

Alan Brainsby ● 6411d

Re overtaking Germany on 70.5 million as Europe's largest country." xxxxxxxxxxxxxx I often wondered if that was Blair's reason for enticing hordes of immigrants / asylum seekers in, so GB would become the largest country /economy in the EU.

Tony Price ● 6411d

TonyHave you seen any of the Ealing luvvies, only they seem to be conspicuous by their absence. George Knox accused me of muck raking........why I hear you ask, because I had looked up a serious post that I had made on W4 about cannabis, and one of his fellow luvvies called me Mr Meldrew, she had not the foggiest idea about these farms, and had to demonstrate what a smart arse she thinks she is by insults, so I won't be taking any advice from this lot about insults. You may have noticed that they do not criticise any of their FL's. Message to Ms Crocker; Are you going to take up my £20 offer that I made to you, if not an apology would not go amiss.....Ah well I can dream can't I?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6411d

I did say that I stood corrected on your posting on the Acton Forum.

Penny Crocker ● 6411d

Guess you didn't read it !

Penny Crocker ● 6411d

I did say that I stood corrected on your posting on the Acton Forum. You did indeed.........but unsurprisingly no apology though!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6411d

When you apologise for all your remarks about other people's families and your idea of their beliefs then maybe others would reciprocate. Until then.....Not contributing any more to any thread where your remarks are present. Bored and fed up with it.

Penny Crocker ● 6411d

An apology like this one by John Connolly on TW8 might be in order Penny...I note your response to my posting in which I referred, incorrectly, to your performance in a Hounslow Council election. I accept that this did not occur and that you have never stood for the Council, and am happy to unreservedly apologise for any upset caused. I will, in future, check out "information" received from others in order to ensure that I do not make false statements again.In your posting you objected to me describing the content you produce as "bile and vomit". I do not accept this. Below are a few postings of yours, drawn at random, that demonstrate that this description is perfectly reasonable:-1) To George Anthony Burrell on 9th June 2003"Grow up you twat.........stop trying to be such a pratt, and go and give John Murphy a cuddle."2) To "Mr Ewew" (Your text)on 15th June 2008"Mr Ewew,Was you born an utter prick or did you have to work at it?"3) To Jamie Halliday on 15th July 2008"What bloody planet are you on.....Zog?"This is the language of a cyber bully, and your whimperings when others reply in kind underlines your bully boy approach.You repeatedly invite posters critical of your adverse remarks, usually levelled at ethnic minorities, to prove you are a racist. However, you know how to structure your remarks in order to avoid being identified as an overt racist. If you crossed the line your activities as a police volunteer would be terminated. For what it's worth, in a reply to Phil Andrews on 2nd March 2003 you stated:"There is an excuse for me. I'm an ingnorant (sic), narrow-minded, blinkered and prejudiced individual."Straight from the horse's mouth!In your response to me you choose to repeat the accusation that I was lying when I accused you of standing for the council. I have already acknowledged that I was in the wrong. I offer for readers' consideration 2 Atkinson lies posted on this site recently:-On the 17th July 2008 you said the following in a lengthy posting about planning in Hounslow"The nod and the wink culture was prevalent with this committee many years ago, especially the Central ward, one of its members on this planning committee built a structure without planning permission, and as I recall uprooted two trees in a conservation area in the process...........(H)e was never kicked off the committee."THIS IS LIE NUMBER 1You continue"a structure approx. 20ftx12ftx10ft.........ended up in the hands of a government inspector who upheld the enforcement.........but guess what, it's still there courtesy of fellow Labour councillors."LIE NUMBER 2In the first case the structure was built in Cranford. The member responsible was removed from the Planning Committee (of which he had been Vice-Chair), the structure was taken down and replacement trees planted. In the second case, the owner of the property, The Asian Food Centre on Staines Road, was able to prove the canopy had existed for more than 4 years and it was therefore immune from enforcement. I advised Mr Atkinson of this in an e-mail dated 12th December 2007, so there is no excuse for repeating the lie.Incidentally, wasn't it Joseph Goebbels who stated "if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it people will eventually come to believe it"? History suggests that he, too, was an ignorant, narrow-minded, blinkered and prejudiced individual.

Tony Wood ● 6411d

Thank you Tony. This is indeed a very appropriate apology and one I entirely second.

Penny Crocker ● 6411d

No-one is answering Mr Knox's request for a solution. I've a solution that should please everyone.As the powers that be, and Boris, try to work out what to do with our large number of immigrants here without legal rights ... and the costs to identify and remove them look prohibitive ... and there are groups happy to denounce our armed forces. Then why not apply a joined up solution.Simply revise the offer of amnesty to anyone wanted to make their presence here in the UK legal. Give anyone the offer of immediate citizenship with full rights after merely 3 years service in our armed forces. That's got to be easy. Anyone found to be here without a permit ... ship 'em into the army. If they've a problem serving in Afghanistan - ship 'em to Belfast. They might take an unbiased approach there.Its a beautiful quid pro quo. Serve your favourite country and get into your favourite country.Now can we end this thread please?

Alan Clark ● 6411d

Re to be conspicuous by their absence. George Knox accused me of muck raking. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx what is noticeably lacking from them is any useful info as to what they want and believe in. So far PC has not responded, apart from supporting Somalis financially, with your money, so I assume she is active in working among that community here, which is quite large, but as for Georgie, all he does is blow his tin whistle and stamp his feet and come up with nowt, at least not of significance. Whereas we all know re empty vessels etc, you would think that persons with such apparent conviction would relish the opportunity of enlightening us all with their agendas. He tells me I have a vicious hidden one, but won't tell me what it is, so I remain in ignorance.

Tony Price ● 6411d

I doubt very much that there will be an amnesty unless the incumbent government knows it will definitely lose the next General Election, not perhaps but definitely lose.The amnesty would be set up to follow that election so that the issue would be perceived as the new government's causation.I say this as although the present government talks down the numbers a truer number will be obtained through amnesty, probably in excess of 4 000 000 (and the rest!).Talk about government jobs creation!

Alan Brainsby ● 6411d

Re No-one is answering Mr Knox's request for a solution. I've a solution that should please everyone xxxxxxxxxxxxx yes they did Alan, I for one but it was not the full answer he wanted despite the fact it was a full solution as far as I was concerned , so he won't play anymore, at least not from what I have seen. Shame 'cos he did add a humourous touch. Now you have come up with a couple of suggestions but with which sadly there are fundamental problems. Firstly in order to enrol them in our Armed Forces, we have to know who they are and where, both of which we don't. And even if that were to come about, I think our lads would probably feel a tad queasy with some in their midst, if you get my drift.

Tony Price ● 6410d

"Not contributing any more to any thread where your remarks are present. Bored and fed up with it." When all is lost, throw your toys out of the pram, typical luvvie behaviour.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6410d

Yes some research from a red councillor who got his arse kicked out of office, and from his reply it was not too diificult to understand why. Asking someone what bloody planet from....Zog, now that may be a capital offence to the aptly named Wood, who can't see it from the trees, but not in mine though. You would have noticed that he like Ms Crocker who will tell lies to make a point, had to apologise. The nod and the wink culture on the planning committee that he refutes, but what he omitted to say was that subsequently a planning consultant (Mrs Nicola Spink) was called in and had serious misgivings obout how this committee was operated, further and even more recently another committee in Heston had to receive training because they had not the slightest idea of plannong regulations, and ultimately had the rightto overturn enforcement orders withdrawn.....I wonder why?The Asian food centre in Staines road was allowed to enclose a temporary structure simply becase the girders were there for 4 years, but what he conveniently forgot to mention was that a government inspector queried at the hearing why enforcement action was being taken under plannong laws, "when it clearly breached the Highway's Act"! and is now an eyesore, He and his colleagues agreed with enforcement notice,then overturned it........it now encroaches on to two thirds of the pavement, with boxes and other rubbish piled outside. He also conveniently was absent when the Queen visited the borough, even though he was at the time the leader.....Some of the quotes he alleges that I made are a figment of his imagination I'm afraid, while I hold up my hand to a couple......but if you know, that like some of the luvvies on here who throw there toys out of the pram he was either booted out of the Labour Party or resigned, and set up an Independent group of 2. The reason he was voted in again I will leave to the fertile mind of Mr Wood (He represents a largely Asian ward). Looking at this again, his reference to a comment made to Phil Andrews, is so bizarre I wonder if he has been at the sauce! Notice that he refers to me as a cyber bully, and he who had the nerve to post a blatant lie to back up his story.So Mr Wood pick a person who does not have to tell lies to make a point. My-My you have been a busy little boy haven't you, but I know it is difficult for a small minded individual to at least choose a post that contains a small amount of truth at least Red John is now out in the political wilderness,which says is it all I think........

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6410d

Re The reason he was voted in again I will leave to the fertile mind of Mr Wood (He represents a largely Asian ward). xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx what some people fail to realise is with what is going on when persons of ethnicity not of this country get into the seats of power to such an extent that they will be the local and Westminster " rulers ", then the capital and country are as good as lost to us. And let no-one say it is not already happening. I can't comment on Hounslow as I am not sufficiently conversant with the area, but Southall is a good example for Ealing. Most if not all councillors are of non British ethnicity, as the MP. Our MP's have shot themselves in the foot as they will all be ousted in time by those they have enticed into the country with their misplaced PC nonsense. Indeed, as I have said before, those of dark skin pigmentation required of the 3 main parties that the Parliamentary lists for London be made up soley of persons from their ranks. The writing has been on the walls for some time but as my dear late departed father used to say " there's none so blind as them that won't see ". There are so many parts of London now that do not give off the appearance of a British city but more of a third world country. We have never been under seige as we are now. So why do those who stand up for our place in history get so accused , ranted at, verbally abused and never told what is so better by what is on the way as replacement. I really wish I were wrong, but try as I may, I cannot convince myself I am, especially as the vast majority of persons with whom one mentions the situation agree with me.

Tony Price ● 6410d

To Mr Wood he who only researches half of a story. Below is listed part of the shenanigans that went on to ensure this monstrosity was allowed to stay,along with advice from a councillor!!!!!Part of the document4.0 An application was made to infill the existing canopy posts and roof by new see -»•through grille metal roller shutters to the front and sliding clear glazed doors to theflanks instead of the existing solid plywood wall and sliding metal roller shutters. Thiswas refused in November 2000 for the following reason:-1 The proposed alterations to the existing canopy would, by reason of the size,appearance and position, constitute an obtrusive feature detrimental to the visual amenities of the shopping parade and the street scene generally. It would therefore be contrary to policies ENV. 1.1 (All New Development) and S.4.2 (Shop Front Design) of the adopted UDP and policies ENV.B.1.1 (All New Development) and S.4.2 (Shop Front Design) of the Review Deposit UDP.Obtrusive, but it got through enforcement and planning though! I also checked, and I had not registered on TW8 in 2003, and I have never heard of Mr Burrell either,so Connellys lie in attributing this post to me says everything about him but hey ho whats another lie between friends. So dear Mr Wood when you reproduce a post, ensure it's accuracy before doing so........It's not too difficult, but then again it might be for an idiot!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6410d

Jean#Below is what was said at the time of the protesters of the Danish cartoonHe (the judge) said: “Freedoms of speech and assembly have long been jealously guarded by our laws. “With freedom comes respect and responsibility – none of which was demonstrated by you. What you were part of was the complete opposite of peaceful protest.”He said the four men had subjected London’s multi-national citizens to a “barrage of hatred and intolerance”, only a few months after the July 7 outrage. The judge added: “Your words were meant to foment hatred and encourage killing.His comments were echoed by Director of Public Prosecutions Sir Ken Macdonald. He said: “Freedom of speech is the right of any individuals in our democracy. “The law says you can express your opinions robustly without the fear of being brought before a criminal court. “But if you march down the streets of London calling for people to be beheaded and for European cities to be bombed, you have crossed a line. The judges message obviously has fallen on deaf ears!Anything they disagree with, will this be what we will have to contend with now?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6410d

Re " there's none so blind as them that won't see ". xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx extract from MEP Roger Helmer's March issue message from Brussels :- " British Jobs for British Workers I must admit that I have some reservations about our open-door immigration policies for EU workers. And I am accused by others of being "protectionist". I am not protectionist: on the contrary, I am a passionate free-trader. But in classical economic theory, free trade was about goods, services and capital -- never about workers and unfettered immigration. Not only is "free movement of labour" not a principal of free trade. In fact the free movement of goods, services and capital should make the movement of labour unnecessary! My hero Milton Friedman, the high priest of free trade and classical liberal economics, makes the point well. He discusses why most Americans think that 19th Century immigration was a good thing for America, while also thinking that late 20th Century immigration was a bad thing, and he goes on: "Because it is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promised a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing."This applies equally to immigration into the UK today. And it applies equally to EU and non-EU workers. We in Britain need a planned immigration policy related to the needs of our economy, and the capacity of our country and our social infrastructure to absorb more people, and in my view, that policy should apply to all foreign immigrants including EU citizens."

Tony Price ● 6410d

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4979516/Vikings-lived-harmoniously-with-our-ancestors.htmlI have read some cack in my time but this is up there with the causes of global warming.

Alan Brainsby ● 6410d

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/concoughlin/4980955/Britain-is-fighting-a-war---and-we-are-too-soft-on-our-enemies.htmlI am sure most others have already read this.

Alan Brainsby ● 6410d

"Thank you Tony. This is indeed a very appropriate apology and one I entirely second."I guessed that you would appreciate a post from someone just like yourself, someone who does not mind posting lies and half truths to make a point. Sad that people have to stoop to that level, just goes to prove what desperation can do. Buy Mr Wood a drink when you next meet.......he obviously needs one!I hope that this experience will enable you to learn to be accurate when posting accusations.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6410d

RE http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4979516/Vikings-lived-harmoniously-with-our-ancestors.html xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx extract " Investigating that process provides us with a historical model of how political groups can be absorbed into complex societies, contributing much to those societies in the process. "There are important lessons that can be gained from this about cultural assimilation in the modern era" Indeed Alan, a load of tripe but so beloved of the apologists for immigration now but who overlook very importants points. 1, the Vikings and most if not all " invaders " since, and before, were of the same type as the indigenous, hence could assimilate/ integrate but the same cannot be said for many of recent and current immigrants, 2 were not welcomed, 3 came to a country with wide open spaces and not over populated, 4 were not entering a country with advanced society, customs and culture and 5 were not a drain on the existing inhabitants.

Tony Price ● 6410d

Re before, were of the same type as the indigenous, hence could assimilate/ integrate but the same cannot be said for many of recent and current immigrants xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx An e mail just received from " a cyber friend " in the Midlands, so much for integration / assimilation :- "We have a Jamaican health worker who is helping our daughter at the moment. He doesn't agree with PC but he does agree with positive discrimination. When I mentioned that the BNP almost won the local election here he said that the answer was to flood the area with immigrants so " the locals would get used to them"Enough said. I didn't mind him being here at first but I did after that! "

Tony Price ● 6410d

'I WANT TO SEE THE FLAG OF ALLAH FLYING OVER DOWNING STREET''A Muslim fundamentalist leader today told of his vision of Britain under Sharia Law. Anjem Chaudry said he wanted the "flag of Allah" flying over Downig Street,all women wearing burkas and caning for drunkness' full interview in today's Evening Standard.Fancy a new outfit ladies???

Jean F Fernandez ● 6410d

Re Anjem Chaudry said he wanted the "flag of Allah" flying over Downing Street,all women wearing burkas and caning for drunkness' xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx not to mention stoning to death of women for adultery or being raped, of gays for being just that, floggings, amputations etc etc, yet still come on in say some on this Forum. As I have said before, there is already a Muslim Parliament of Britain in existence, and don't believe the Muslim Council of Britain when they say 95% of muslims are peace loving and otherwise willing integrators of our society,'cos when the chips are down, they will side with their own, if there is the chance of taking this country over, or boosting their influence. Thank goodness there are those in the Media, D. M., Telegraph, Express and Evening Standard who stand up for this country and heritage. Gawd 'elp us if some on this Forum were ever given " their heads " now they have lost their minds.

Tony Price ● 6410d

George Knox ● 6410d

As much as the people who cannot answer questions on this site get energised by this offensive anti freedom fighter, the security authorities will probably want to keep him in the open rather than underground.Shan't mourn the passing of those trite beauty contests, though.George exactly what questions you want answered please?As regards the trite beauty contests, forget about them you wouldn't stand a chance of winning one anyway!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6410d

Tony, your analysis is exactly what I thought too, Alan B.

Alan Brainsby ● 6410d

Re 4 were not entering a country with advanced society, customs and culture xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On the Acton Forum are posts of complaint re the rubbish and otherwise disgusting state many streets etc have become, with a very pertinent and telling letter by one resident and here is an extract from the Ealing News Letter saying more or less the same thing. Now let's be perfectly frank and honest, an area is made to look the way it is by those who inhabit it. Many parts of Ealing and Acton have come to resemble third world countries, it's no use blaming the Council, we should blame the new inhabitants, so yet another " blessing " of immigration and multi-culturalism :- " Both Ealing and Hounslow boroughs are considered to be amongst the dirtiest in Britain according to a report published by Campaign to Protect Rural England. Hounslow is ranked fourth filthiest whilst Ealing fare slightly better ranking seventh out of the worst offenders."

Tony Price ● 6408d

For those who are in favour of mass immigration / denigration of our way of life, environment etc, this extract from The Telegraph will have you whooping with joy :- " The UN predicted last week that the population of Britain would riseto 72 million by 2050. Actually, the increase will probably happenfaster than that. According to the Government's own figures, Britain'spopulation will reach 71 million not in 40 years, but in just over 20:its forecast is that we will get there in 2031, because it thinks thenumber of immigrants who will arrive here is going to be higher thanthe UN's prediction.The rise will be almost entirely the result of immigration. If therewere to be no immigration at all into Britain, the population wouldhover around its present figure of 61 million. But the Governmentpredicts that net migration into Britain (that is, the total of thosecoming in minus the total number of people emigrating) will be around190,000 a year for the foreseeable future.The consequential population increase, which may be as high as 10million, is enormously significant. It represents adding a city biggerthan London (the population of which is now about seven and a halfmillion). England, with a population density of 395 people per squarekilometre, is already the most crowded country in Europe:"

Tony Price ● 6403d

And to cap it all, 7% of London's population are illegal immigrants :- " The figure emerged after the report from the London School of Economics,commissioned by Mr Johnson, found there were at least 947,000 illega