Forum Topic

Appearing at  PATAS - any advice?

I was so cross at being given a ticket for a one minute stop in the about-to-be-abolished loading bay near the level crossing in Churchfield Road, Acton, that I have appealed and now have a date to go to PATAS - which I will probably quite enjoy....given that I like tribunals generally.But I haven't done this one before and wondered if anyone has some tips.The letter already says that Ealing probably won't bother to turn up. So what, in their absence, do I need to prove?

Sara Nathan ● 6438d6 Comments

We never got that far as H&F must have said at the last moment that they would not be attending.

Philippa Bond ● 6438d

But the PATAS leaflet already says that the council probably won't be there...but that doesn't mean I get a walkover does it?

Sara Nathan ● 6437d

Sara,As I am responsible for Parking Services in Ealing I thought it might be useful to make some general comments.  The whole point about PATAS is that it gives people a no cost, low risk final court of appeal against local authority parking departments in London so that council officers outside the specialist parking department and councillors don't have to get involved in dissecting the details of individual cases.  I won't therefore talk about the details of your case.  If you are not satisfied with Parking Services's decision in your case the right thing to do is to go to PATAS.  The council submits an evidence pack to PATAS so typically it would not send staff to attend unless there was some particular complexity or issue that warranted attendance.  PATAS's own definition of a loading bay is:"A specific bay, bounded by white markings and signed to permit loading and unloading by goods vehicles. Parking is not permitted within these bays."Loading bays are not for shopping.  They are there to allow traders and their suppliers to handle large, cumbersome or heavy objects or large quantities of them.  Loading can go on for some time.  In Ealing our CEOs (the new jargon for traffic warden) are required to observe for 3 minutes.  If they see no sign of actual loading then they issue a ticket.  This observation is enforced by a timer function on their handheld computers.  They literally cannot issue a ticket until the 3 minutes is up.  Where we issue a ticket in error to someone who is genuinely loading then we cancel the ticket on written representation.  I would say to people keep out of loading bays.  They are there to allow traders to do their business.  They are not for casual parking.  People will no doubt say why can't we observe for longer?  The simple answer is that we don't want the CEOs waiting around all day so 3 minutes is considered a reasonable compromise.  Good luck with your appeal.  I am sure we will all be interested to hear the outcome.

Phil Taylor ● 6434d

It was a camera not an officer so no hanging around...and can't have been as much as three minutes I wouldn't think. And the bay doesn't say anywhere it's for goods vehicles only.Plus there is the inequity of all the stop and shop bays being full of the mini-cab cars - leaving nowhere for me to park - while the traffic wardens sit around in their office drinking cups of tea. (A justified and therefore not libellous statement - there are witnesses)But I don't suppose that counts!Thanks for replying. My PATAS hearing is at the end of April so - with Richard's help - I will be submitting evidence soon.

Sara Nathan ● 6434d

Good Luck with it. Also was there something in the paper recently about Ealing wrongly labelling a Loading Bay. (Loading Only or Loading Bay). They also have a lovely one in the High Street that is so dim you have difficulty seeing it. So look for any angle as they certainly are playing free and lose with the law at times. Given Illegal Box Junction and the rest.

Peter Chadburn ● 6434d

Have just opened the throwing-in-the-towel letter from Ealing Parking Services so will not be attending PATAS on Friday.No reasoning of course but who cares?Many thanks to Richard Jennings who took the photos and Jane Bryant who went through exactly the same experience only a couple of weeks ago.Oh, and to the neighbournet sites that brought us together...no wonder the council loathes these fora.

Sara Nathan ● 6381d