Forum Topic

Piss Poor service at the Town Hall

Last week I had to go to the Town Hall to sort out a prob with  my Council Tax. I got a ticket at the fron desk, waited ..... turns out they'd put me in the wrong queue. So he put me in another queue - saying I would be 'at the top' and 'would not have to wait' further - not true, it took ages. Then the same thing happened I was in another wrong queue. Again, the person serving me said they'd transfer me and I wouldn't have to wait. After about 20 mins i discovered there were 26 people before me. In all I was there for FOUR AND A QUARTER HOURS! (Added to which the noise from so many screamig kids meants i had a splitting headache when I got home!) I think that is utterly disgraceful. Anyone know the "manager" of the sysstem? I can feel a letter of complaint bubbling.  or am i being unreasonable ?

Viv Ellis ● 6407d19 Comments

You are being totally and unreasonably reasonable. Why were you not demanding to see the facility manager after 45 minutes? That is enough of your unpaid time to spend pandering to any bureaucracy's contempt for its public. But you have to make a noise at the time - without screaming or being abusive. Just to demand to see the manager and stand over the staff while s/he is summonsed.

Sara Nathan ● 6406d

Viv, Your story does sound truly dire.  I am the councillor responsible for customer services which seems like a misnomer in your case I must admit.  I often check the service and it usually works well, sometimes not so well, but this seems off the scale.  Please get in touch with me by e-amail and I will look into it: philip.taylor@ealing.gov.uk

Phil Taylor ● 6406d

PhilNice to hear you admit what all of Ealing's residents know already regarding the absolute disgraceful customer experience that we get at Percival House or via the telephone to Ealing Council.We all want to know what you are going to do to change this dire system and not to take Viv's complaint off line. I ams sure if Viv wanted to contact you alone she would not have posted on here. So let us all know?

Ali Khan ● 6406d

I will be in touch Councillor - I had been given the name of jan Simpson to complain to. Sara - I assure you I DID complain at the time and demanded to see the "manager" (who strangely was not available) I filled out a complaints form thinghie - but I doubt they ever get read

Viv Ellis ● 6406d

I am quite impressed with the service which I have had at Perceval House on the very few occasions I have been there. When I visit, I do go in trepidation, because I have had so very many bad experiences with other councils. But so far so good.But 4.5 hours (I hope you timed it) is totally out of order.As I have said elsewhere all Councils jump when you do a FORMAL first stage complaint. Your rage, upset should enable your first letter to cover every point.If disatisfied with the response to this you say just that rather than waffle, and escalate to STAGE 2, and similarly with STAGE 3 and then to the Ombudsman. This is where Councils are vulnerable, and so they hate the use of the statutory process.You ask for an apology, money lost (with paperwork), money for your distress, a change of procedure or policy, restoration or whatever else.This sounds heavy, but it is not if your first letter is good. The stages mean a junior,middle and senior person in that order respond to your complaint.A council officer might well say, why not just informally complain before using the statutory procedure. It is up to you. Nowadays I fnd that charming persuasion works better than other approaches, however furious I feel. There are people to complain to instead, but the statutory route (you don't have to fill in a form) gets heads in gear. Other routes only might.However my complaint about managers refusing to come out of a meeting is a strong sign that customers come second. Many Councils suffer from this affliction. Some of us complain because that is what is so wrong about Councils. Customer service skills have been with us for how long? I would like Ealing to be the best. Come on Phil.

George Knox ● 6405d

Unfortunately the people I speak to and my own experience  proves that Viv is not alone in her customer experience of Ealing Council. However it is all to easy for some of us to complain through the stages but imagine how many people in this borough will/can not as they are afraid or cannot understand the bureaucratic system. That is why I think P.Taylor should respond on this thread and tell us what he is going to do to stop this happening again and again. Maybe he is too busy sorting out the mess to reply to us voters but he could at least communicate what he plans for the future not ignore us but maybe he has no plans. Well Phil?

Ali Khan ● 6405d

A formal letter has been sent .... I shall keep you informed !  Who knows my lavish compensation may fund the next forum drinks ! Yeah Right

Viv Ellis ● 6405d

Ali. While it is very true that people either cannot or will not use the easy to use complaints system, equally there are many people who are perfectly able to do so.So if more people used this democratic tool more frequently then managers in meetings might start more often to say ‘Oh we have a customer services problem. Let’s go and deal with it right now and then resume the meeting’ That’s what I and hundreds of my colleagues used to do years ago. These people would not have a job if we did not pay them. So that is an example of where a complainant could challenge policy. Which generation had the more positive and less arrogant attitude?While I often disagree with C Phil Taylor, at least he has made a response. OK we would like to know more about improvements and he has does not have the best of records in giving fulsome answers. But unlike the majority of the cabinet members he does engage in the diminishing democratic process.Well done Viv. If you are not happy with the response and your first letter was excellent, then a 2 liner saying simply – not happy now, next FORMAL stage please, should/may suffice. You may wish to keep your powder dry and argue a bit at third stage. It’s your decision.You may have to wait patiently as the Local Government Ombudsman recently said ‘The target time for councils to respond when we make enquiries is 28 days. Your Council’s averageresponse time to enquiries is 36.2 days, an increase for the second year. This is a matter of concern.’ But Viv, you will get an answer.According to the LGO’s last report Ealing came out in the top 5 of London Boroughs which had the most  complaints. Boroughs like Barnet and Hillingdon came down much lower even though the population in those boroughs is high. Happy Hackney was higher, but then that borough has had a history of maladministration going back decades. No wonder elsewhere we complain that Ealing is going downhill. Phil usually gets energised on this and there are some small improvements. But they are just not good enough at all, and he knows it.The LGO has told Ealing that he offers extremely good courses in learning how to deal with complaints. If this goes on for many more years, the Council may wish to consider sacking the senior manager, and without a Fred Goodwin pension.Phil, back to the classroom please.

George Knox ● 6405d

GeorgeI agree the more people who do complain then the more this council will sit up and listen but my point was, although clumsily put, that for all the complaints that have been lodged then like an iceberg there must be an awful amount of complaints not being raised officialy and sitting below the surface.As for P.Taylor responding, he seems to be very selective in who he answers on this forum but he will not even allow comments on his own web site if they are not from a selective few.

Ali Khan ● 6404d

How do you mean - not allow? What happens?

George Knox ● 6404d

It goes to moderation and then never appears.

Ali Khan ● 6404d

Have you insulted him or said something outrageous like one or two others I think it is on certain other threads.Anyway I am surprised.However he  does watch this site.

George Knox ● 6404d

GeorgeAlthough I did have, what I thought was a little joke about his plastic bag policy,which he refused to post, he then again refused to post what I believe was a reasonable point. I am now copying what I said and what he would not put on his web site but to balance the argument it has got to be read with his own web site regarding his view that northern rock (and the rest) should have been let go to the wall: " So you really think that Northern Rock and other financial institutions should have been left to market forces? This is a real throw back to Thatcherism and the the tory mantra of ‘if it aint hurting it aint working’. So how much of people’s hard earned savings would you have allowed to have been lost, how many jobs would you and your like be prepared to have seen lost? I thought you and your small band had gone for good but you and your right wing friends are always bubbling just under the surface"

Ali Khan ● 6402d

Well I'd love to report that I have at least had acknowledgement  of the letters of complaint  I have sent in to the council - but I have not even had that.

Viv Ellis ● 6391d

Well I'd love to report that I have at least had acknowledgement  of the letters of complaint  I have sent in to the council - but I have not even had that.

Viv Ellis ● 6391d

Viv, I know it's a bore, but give it another week or so. It's how people get worn down.

George Knox ● 6391d

Or maybe P.Taylor could respond on here? Do not hold your breath.

Ali Khan ● 6390d

Viv,As you have raised your case in a public forum I wish to respond to it in that same forum but I wish to respect your privacy by not going into the details of your case.  I do think that you had to wait too long and for that I apologise.  I also think that you have not given a complete account of your experience.  I understand that a response was sent to you by the officer that you wrote to on 25th March.  Your letter, which you kindly copied to me, was dated 17th March.  The response was delayed slightly due to that officer being on annual leave.  Please let me know if you have not seen this letter.  The response details the actual times recorded by the ticketing system.  I am very familiar with this system from my visits to Customer Services and I am confident that the times are accurate.  Whilst you claimed here that you were kept waiting for four and a quarter hours the records show that you had already left when you were called for your third transaction two and three quarter hours after you arrived.  I accept that this is a long time but you needed to complete some complicated business with the council at a time that a lot of other people were also trying to complete their own complicated business with the council.  Once it had been established that yours was not a simple council tax enquiry you were placed in a long queue to see a specialist officer but you were placed on that queue as if you had joined it when you first arrived.  Once you main transaction was completed you then wanted further information and regrettably you needed to be placed in a third queue to get this from a different specialist officer.

Phil Taylor ● 6389d

Mr Taylor - that is utter bunkum from start to finish. I have received no letter. My business was not "complicated"  - although I was told that I would be placed in all the various correct queues as if I had just arrived - that sim ply did not happen. I stick to my times too. It's entirely possible I did not hear the announcement due to the deafening cacophony of screaming kids

Viv Ellis ● 6389d