Forum Topic

Mass Debaters

There was a time when I enjoyed reading discussions on this forum about local topics that were conducted in a civilised way. These days the forum is dominated by a number of people who are often rude, bigotted and interested only in their own opinion. I think it is fair to describe these people as "mass debaters".Could I suggest these mass debaters go & spread their unpleasant seed elsewhere?

Simon Measures ● 6406d93 Comments

"Could I suggest these mass debaters go & spread their unpleasant seed elsewhere?"And leave you to bore the arse off of everyone I suppose, do your remarks also apply to the luvvies (I suspect you may be one!) Why do you adamantly refuse to accept the criticisms and the wrong doings, like the "lovable rogues" who hate everything about this country, and you say absolutely sod all about it....and we wonder why the country has gone to the dogs. Perhaps you may give some examples of what you mean exactly, when referring to "spreading their unpleasant seed" Leave out the abuse (from either side of the issue) just stick to the subject(s) that causes you to refer to it as "unpleasant"........remember, just the subject matter. Might one of them be, that the newly arrived are housed preferentially over residents on the waiting list......or the £12,480 a month rent paid out of council tax funds, Abu HAmza, Omar Bakri, or the scrotes who were spouting their abuse at our soldiers, while the police protected them..........now is your chance to let us all know Simon?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6406d

Are you worth a W**k then?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6406d

oh no dont get this bloke started again!

Al Stuart ● 6405d

What is the point of AMJA and his avid list of two/three followers. They are just horrible people who are just manipulating this blog for their own agenda. I suppose I am going to face the wroth of these 'luvie' bashing people but I cannot sit here and let them get away with their unfounded accusations. Who are they anyway?

Ali Khan ● 6405d

"What is the point of AMJA and his avid list of two/three followers. They are just horrible people who are just manipulating this blog for their own agenda. I suppose I am going to face the wroth of these 'luvie' bashing people but I cannot sit here and let them get away with their unfounded accusations. Who are they anyway?" Where have you been hiding Ali? How about a word or two to condemn the 7/7 and 9/11 bombers, and the more recent scumbags who insulted OUR soldiers....that was OK was it?What are you going to do then, hit me with your handbag?Now here is where you can help Ali, by cutting and pasting ANY UNFOUNDED accusations which causes you such big problems.....OK? The point of AMJA is, to stand up for the people of MY country....whats your excuse! Start cutting and pasting Ali, you are scaring me to death!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6405d

!oh no dont get this bloke started again!"What! standing up for our own people do you mean? Perhaps when you and the other like minded, wake up and smell the coffee, we may then all witness our soldiers  marching proudly through THEIR High Streets, without a bunch of no good, work shy layabout scumbags abusing them, with the protection of our "PC" PCs.......When will you wake up and see what is, and has happened to our country.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6405d

How about some answers Ali, surely it should not be that difficult should it? Come on and make a name for yourself! You may be the first critic on here to give any examples of UNFOUNDED ACCUSATIONS!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6404d

You are all like drivers cocooned in their cars raging and shouting at each other safe in your cybercocoons.I suggest you all have a drink together, you may feel no different but at least your manners and civil attitudes may return.I think I'll pop down to W4 for some polite cmpany now.

John Perkins ● 6404d

"I think I'll pop down to W4 for some polite cmpany now."Have you no thought about the carbon footprints, with all this travelling you do!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6404d

There's no carbon footprint if you go ON YOUR BIKE!!!

James de Vivenot ● 6404d

Just to please you, there is no excuse for terrorism in any shape or form and all British people should stand by their troops and not submit them to abuse . However I would like to know if you are this country's true defender of the faith, why dont you stand for election to Parliament, Europe or the Council and test your views among the electorate?

Ali Khan ● 6404d

"There's no carbon footprint if you go ON YOUR BIKE!!!" A mine of information, always to be had on here and I now consider myself well and truly educated about carbon footprints!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6404d

What is the point of AMJA and his avid list of two/three followers.Mr KhanThere are as you say only 2 or 3 like minded posters on here, but as I have said before, many many more have Pm'd me in support. You are also oblivious or fail to understand the furore expressed in the newspapers and  on TV just how OUR country is being mugged on a daily basis.I note that like the others on here who are by the way, not slow to accuse me and others of unacceptable comments, (but no comment on the Muslims abusing and insulting our service people), does this mean that you agree, that you can cause a public outrage and disgust as a Muslim, but if you are from the host community, you can be arrested and charged for doing the same?I have asked the luvvies for their views, and in fairness only one has answered.........perhaps as you have such strong feelings about me, you can become the second one to do so.....Fair enough Mr Khan? By the way, who the hell are YOU?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6404d

"Just to please you, there is no excuse for terrorism in any shape or form and all British people should stand by their troops and not submit them to abuse "Should you not have referred in your reply, as "Our Troops" rather than Their Troops", I presume you reside her....forgive me if I am wrong!  That's one part you have answered, now just to please me again......answer exactly (by giving some examples) what is offensive in anything I have said on here? Only then can I hope to mend my ways!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6404d

Hang on a sec, I thought the soldiers marching was a display? If they did not want to present themselves publically then they should not march in public. The aim of the soldiers parade was (1) to give anyone who supports them the opportunity to demonstrate their support; (2) give the soldiers something to feel good about. All fine so far.The problem is that in doing this publically this gives the opportunity for people who disagree with these soldiers serving in Iraq / Afghanistan a chance to also demonstrate. That cannot have been a surprise to anyone. There is (arguably) grounds for people to have suspicions of poor behaviour by soldiers (not these specific British soldiers of course) serving in Iraq / Afghanistan. The photos of ill-treatment of prisoners, the illegal rendition of suspects and the compensation paid to victims of abuse all give plenty of fuel to those believing that UK soldiers are part of an army of occupation. So not exactly a big surprise if a minority in their (ill-informed) minds equate any squaddie with 'army of occupation'.Last point - actually you could argue the scene was something to be proud of. Although there is almost certainly no doubt that the police, if asked, would disagree with the protestors they did the right thing to protect them against the public backlash. That took courage and dedication to their duty.

Alan Clark ● 6403d

AMJAO how pedantic you are I beleive that OUR troops are  doing a great job all over the world but that is not the point. The armed forces of this country will of course do the bidding of the elected government. However where does your politics lie, which is what I asked you and you do not answer? Do you identify with a main stream party or one on the extremes?

Ali Khan ● 6402d

I think many people on this forum have got AMJA wrong. He is actually a very clever "luvvie".His technique is to make outrageous comments with rudeness, swagour & arrogance. What better way can there be of turning us all from the views that he states? AMJA is just a woolly liberal. He probably has a pet sheep in his garden.He is of course very good at baiting people with his comments. He is undoubtedly a master baiter.

Simon Measures ● 6402d

Do you identify with a main stream party or one on the extremes? I would say that my politics lean towards right of centre, I always go to vote, not to tick a box for any particular party, extremist or otherwise but spoil my slip as a protest at the despicable way politicians deny pensioners a decent standard of living, and falling over themselves to dish out cash to those who sit on their fat arses all day, and who have no intention of ever working including many who are newly arrived. The Liberals don't stand a chance, just look at how labour have destroyed this country, and the Tory's, they are all good at telling you how good they will be in power, but never deliver. Extemes of any colour are dangerous, particularly the Muslim extremists, and as far as I am aware the BNP have never blown up a bus or a train or a building killing citizens (7/7 9/11). The extreme left are amost as equally dangerous, as some on here clearly demonstrate when rubbishing our culture, heritage and traditions.Having answered YOUR question, can I be ultra pedantic and ask you, (or anybody else) to let me, and I suspect many others know EXACTLY what you find UNACCEPTABLE in any of my posts, but remember, none of you have mentioned the scumbags who insulted our troops on their homecoming, these are the extremists who will feed the BNP, so you and others of a similar mind better wake up and smell the coffee and CODEMN them, that way you won't be accused of bias, when mentioning whether I identify with one of the extremes, by the same token, and as I have stated before, but I will repeat........do you have ANY comment on the scumbags who abuse our democracy, and yet want to destroy our way of life?.......I await your response!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6402d

The problem is that in doing this publically this gives the opportunity for people who disagree with these soldiers serving in Iraq / Afghanistan a chance to also demonstrate. That cannot have been a surprise to anyone.If you think that these scumbags were DEMONSTRATING PEACEFULLY you must not have seen the placards with their disgusting insinuations, this was NOT a DEMONSTRATION it was meant to cause OUTRAGE, and our wonderful police protected them, but arrested two whites for assault, that's the way this country has gone. Their duty is to uphold the law and protect all, this so called demonstration clearly was an offence under the "Public Order ACT" but it is a case of don't upset the Muslims, treat their disgusting behaviour with sensitivity. For you consideration Mr Clark, below demonstrates why you should wake up. This their philosophy, which they aim to impose on us, IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE HERE MR CLARK?Where is the Muslim outrage? The Guardian is of the opinion that 'an inability to tolerate Islam contradicts western values'. This may be deemed a little insensitive, coming in the week that a ‘strict Muslim’ father was jailed for life (ie 20 years) for murdering his daughter in an 'honour killing' because she brought ‘shame’ on his family by falling in love with the wrong man. What is 'Islam' and what is 'Islamic'? How is The Guardian defining these terms? Why does it not seek the voice of outrage from those within the 'Islamic' community? And what of the hanging of children in Iran, or the stoning of women and girls, the beheadings, female 'circumcision' and the barbaric mutilation of criminals in other lands? Should all this be tolerated because it is 'Islamic'? Just where is the objecting voice of 'moderate Islam' amidst all of this? PERHAPS ABUSING OUR SOLDIERS HAS A HIGHER PRIORITY IN THEIR SICK DISTURBED MINDS, RATHER THAN CONDEMNING WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE COUNRIES THAT THEY HOLD UP AS SO PERFECT......?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6402d

By Christ you  are such a clever little man/boy. If you are going to insult me, something which you deplore in me, at least spell SWAGGER properly (NOT SWAGOUR!)if you use big words, I suspect you were/are one of those little sods who spent their time looking out of the window, rather than paying attention to the teacher,or else you would not be such an idiot now. Repeating my term "Luvvie" on here won't be taken too kindly by the rest of your kind....OK? His technique is to make outrageous comments with rudeness, swagour & arrogance. What better way can there be of turning us all from the views that he states?I will ask again, notwithstanding the above....Examples of outrageous comments?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6402d

Racially aggravated causing intentional harassment, alarm or distress Public Order Act 1986, Sec 4A as amended by Crime & Disorder Act 1998, Sect 31(1)(b) & (4)  Mr ClarkDoes the above Act cover the charge, that I suggested that the scumbags we are referring to; was it Demonstrating or causing "INTENTIONAL DISTRESS"...which was it, and consider, did it or not cause Distress>

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6402d

Re  "...which was it, and consider, did it or not cause Distress>          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      the question Michael is, to whom ? I don't know who or what really lies behind this sort off PC nonsense 'cos they lurk in the shadows as if they are ashamed, as they should well be. But what is the purpose, cause social unrest, as that may well be the outcome because the vast majority of the British public are so fed up with PC perversity as is shown time and time again in polls and media headlines. Worms turn and chickens come home to roost, sooner the better as far as I am concerned, but to bring things back to a local issue, I think Ealing, Hounslow and most of London will be written off, despite Boris saying it is the best city in the world in which to live. Cobblers, as I never hear anyone say that. I was talking today to a neighbour,  dear old soul, 94 and bright as a button, who fled from Acton 4-5 years ago where I gather she had a largeish house, because of the way it was deteriorating, and says Ealing is well on the same path. She is right. So much now has the appearance of a third world country because that is what the new inhabitants are used to. Home from home for them.

Tony Price ● 6401d

First, the mention of the ‘honour killing’ is irrelevant. It is like saying the Catholic church indirectly causes suffering by not approving the use of condoms and then mentioning an IRA atrocity. The implication is all Catholics are terrorists – which clearly a wrong and stupid thing to suggest. Including any mention of honour killings is a prime example of bad (at best) arguments – and at worst, unwarranted provocation and insult.You say that the placards used at the demonstration had disgusting insinuations. Yes they are, but only if everyone in the armed forces is innocent of conducting or supporting rendition, or torture, or maltreatment of prisoners, or other acts that harm civilians and innocents. But that’s not the case, is it? By acting in inappropriate (and in cases, illegal) ways – as there is evidence we have done – the armed forces and the government have left us open to criticism. (Note: of course the ‘baby killing’ type placards are disgusting. I’m not arguing in support of them.)You say this was NOT a DEMONSTRATION it was meant to cause OUTRAGE (your capitals). Perhaps. But that is not a reason to arrest people. Your interpretation of the public order act is just that – an interpretation. Others (such as lawyers) may interpret it differently.  However, arresting people for assault is pretty clear cut. A lawyer would find it difficult to challenge that. Are you saying that the police should stop demonstration if they disagree with the views of the demonstrators? Who are they to decide? Who are you to decide? Should they also leave themselves open to law-suits? You are fearful of their philosophy, which they aim to impose on us (your words). I’d agree that the typical Islamic society is not one I’d like and not one I support – but my view is that it is better to maintain and to apply our standards and rights. For us to mimic their standards and (lack of) rights means they get what they want by the back door. We create our own closed and repressed society. So tough as it is, it is better to accommodate such tasteless demonstrations … and thus demonstrate our own high standards. What standards and rights do you want to promote?

Alan Clark ● 6400d

They are soldiers. They can cope with a couple of nasty banners. Or are you coming over all luvvie and suggesting the poor little mites would get all upset by some distressing messages. Maybe the soldiers would need some counselling. Make up your mind - are you a livvie or not?Anyway, to be serious. Lets agree the banners were offensive. Lets even agree that those displaying those banners should have been asked to take down the offensive ones (and they should have been removed from the demonstration if they refused). Lets agree that this was an occassion when the threat of reprisal (I mean only the bad publicity) from arresting a demonstrator was greater than the benefit of arresting them - but this approach left a sense of injustice and unequal treatment. Can we agree this?Now, will you also agree that we should demonstrate our prefered standards and rights - rather than act in an undisciplined or heavy-handed way? Will you agree it is right to arrest people for assault? Will you agree that there have been acts committed by our armed forces that have been less than examplary? I doubt that you will.

Alan Clark ● 6400d

"You say this was NOT a DEMONSTRATION it was meant to cause OUTRAGE (your capitals). Perhaps. But that is not a reason to arrest people. Your interpretation of the public order act is just that – an interpretation. Others (such as lawyers) may interpret it differently.  However, arresting people for assault is pretty clear cut. A lawyer would find it difficult to challenge that. Are you saying that the police should stop demonstration if they disagree with the views of the demonstrators? Answer No to that, but if the law forbids it explicitly under law YES! Who are they to decide? Who are you to decide? Should they also leave themselves open to law-suits? Answer: it does not take an Einstein to see that it is Parliament to decide, which by being very clear within the Act, what offences are illegal or not.......they are there to uphold law and order, and their failure to make any arrests will I am sure, be used by any lawyer representing anyone else (BNP-NF etc)who do the same...."Who are you to decide? Should they also leave themselves open to law-suits?"I can decide a) because first and foremost I am a UK  citizen and expect the law to be upheld without fear or favour, part of their oath I believe;  "I, .. .. of .. .. do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law." NB. That it says "according to the law", the police are interpreting the law as laid down by Parliament every single day, and yes they are only human, and sometimes get it wrong....finally the courts will decide if an offence was committed. not you, the police, nor I" The law in this case is very specific, and IMO they were not interpreting the law, but ignoring it altogether, Impartial,No! Fairness,No! Diligent, Maybe? Equal respect No! Public Order Act;BE IT ENACTED by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:–  [4A Intentional harassment, alarm or distress]   [(1)  A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—  (a)  uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or  (b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress. All of the above applies to these characters, and they will probably see, that on any other occcasion, they will be immune from any police action no matter how abusive they are....just wait and see!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

"These days the forum is dominated by a number of people who are often rude, bigotted and interested only in their own opinion. I think it is fair to describe these people as "mass debaters"."I suggested to you before, that if you want to use long words, for you that is, you spell it right...only one "T" in bigoted" Pay attention!But OK for you to do so eh? Like all lily livered luvvies, only your opinions are always right are they?? this post of yours is civil is it, if by referring to others as Wan**rs because you disagree with their opinions says it all.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

Your response is like knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing. You can quote the law (well done - you've mastered cut and paste) and refer to your vow (are we meant to be impressed?) but you fail to grasp the context or wider issues. Yes there is a risk of tacit endorsement, but this is a small risk compared the likely images sent around the world of more 'victims' of "western oppression and racism" if they were arrested. Can you not acknowledge this?

Alan Clark ● 6400d

AMJA, you must have had a hard life, having to live all these years since your hero died in his Berlin bunker in 1945.

Kevin Hone ● 6400d

It’s not Hitler. In his dotage AMJA just feels the cold a bit more.Jesus says: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. . . . You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to Hell?”The Koran says: “As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods.” AMJA is obviously looking for somewhere to keep warm.The thread is asking at this stage is Freedom of Speech more important than suppressing some extremely offensive and horrible people? Can  AMJA answer?After that stage are we talking about inciting or insulting?

George Knox ● 6400d

Your response is like knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing. You can quote the lawIn the context of the debate, what do you suggest that I quote from, considering that I am writing about upholding the law. You obviously had no idea about the POA, until I educated you by reproducing it, otherwise you would not have asked such daft questions of me. No I don't come on here to impress you or anybody else, I like to think that the people coming to live here will show some respect to MY country, it's customs and culture, and not abuse our democracy, by their ignorant, loutish behaviour, and at the same time, take advantage of our Welfare system. The "kaffirs" can go to hell,as one of them said recently.........but we love their dirty money, that they have got from their evil deeds around the world.......dirty money OK? One wonders, that if we are all so bad, what the hell are they doing here anyway......I will leave further answers to that to others!A message from Alan Clark, the one who wants to conduct discussions politely......hypocrite or not? very fair minded these liberal luvvies aren't they? "(well done - you've mastered cut and paste) and refer to your vow (are we meant to be impressed?) but you fail to grasp the context or wider issues. Yes there is a risk of tacit endorsement, but this is a small risk compare!d the likely images sent around the world of more 'victims' of "western oppression and racism" if they were arrested. Can you not acknowledge this? No! I certainly cannot! You seem to be losing it Alan, I thought that you abhored sarcasm and abusive comments. Western oppression, are you serious, is that why there are queues of people from the middle east just dying to be oppressed and racially abused, just waiting at Calais in case you had not notoiced....because as a luvvie, you hold the belief that racism is only perpetrated by us in the west, and as far as being oppressed, you obviously overlooked, as to exactly who is oppressed and who are the oppressors.....yes and by the very people who abuse our way of life. Sod! the message that is sent out around the world, most of them hate our guts anyway, but still want to live here, but we have Laws and they are meant to be upheld...end of! Iran hangs children, stoning women adulterers in many outdated Muslim countries, not allowing women equal rights, only allowed to go out with a male escort.....denied any education, using children and women as human bombs, religious intolerance, shall I go on? That is what the moderate world should be addressing, and stamping it out.I also guarantee that you have never seen any army service, or have a relative who has, but if unfortunately you do have, they should disown you! otherwise you would not be so insensitive towards our men and women, disgusting! God help us if we ever need to introduce National service, you would lead the exodus along with all your fellow luvvies!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

Just the stupid answer one has come to expect from an idiot first class. For your information I grew up in the war and saw the devastation caused by Hitler. Yes you bloody moron, I enjoyed being bombed by that scum, and to see the roof and windows blown out of my house, not to mention a V1 hitting our hospital and killing them all.Just to prove how really gutless you are, come back and place on here, exactly what leads you to say what you did. Trying to be a smart arse I suppose? I wondered if you like our troops being abused by morons such as you.....somehow I suspect you do, and are also one of the great unwashed rabble rousers...Ignorant sods like you should be castrated at birth, to prevent the production of any more bloody ignorant morons!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

Just the stupid answer one has come to expect from an idiot first class. For your information I grew up in the war and saw the devastation caused by Hitler. Yes you bloody moron, I enjoyed being bombed by that scum, and to see the roof and windows blown out of my house, not to mention a V1 hitting our hospital and killing them all.Just to prove how really gutless you are, come back and place on here, exactly what leads you to say what you did. Trying to be a smart arse I suppose? I wondered if you like our troops being abused by morons such as you.....somehow I suspect you do, and are also one of the great unwashed rabble rousers...Ignorant sods like you should be castrated at birth, to prevent the production of any more bloody ignorant morons!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

Just the stupid answer one has come to expect from an idiot first class. For your information I grew up in the war and saw the devastation caused by Hitler. Yes you bloody moron, I enjoyed being bombed by that scum, and to see the roof and windows blown out of my house, not to mention a V1 hitting our hospital and killing them all.Just to prove how really gutless you are, come back and place on here, exactly what leads you to say what you did. Trying to be a smart arse I suppose? I wondered if you like our troops being abused by morons such as you.....somehow I suspect you do, and are also one of the great unwashed rabble rousers...Ignorant sods like you should be castrated at birth, to prevent the production of any more bloody ignorant morons!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

Only castration?Then we'd have to suffer 70-80 years of high-pitched chant!!!

Alan Brainsby ● 6400d

AMJAYou hit the same button 3 times. Were you feeling sleepy following your long afternoon nap?Perhaps you would now like to get back to the point. Young Acolyte might help.

George Knox ● 6400d

The thread is asking at this stage is Freedom of Speech more important than suppressing some extremely offensive and horrible people? Can  AMJA answer?Yes, as long as freedom of speech is kept within the law of this..... land OUR land. Talking of hypocrites, you don't seem to have any problems with insults do you. Did Jesus teach you to behave like an idiotic moron. And yes I am looking for somewhere to keep warm because the politicians refuse to give me/us a decent pension, and all because of the luvvie brigades obsession with PC issues, and sod us...George, as I have said before, and it is wort repeating, there used to be a comedy act called Nervo and Knox, and were a part of the Crazy gang.......any relation, judging by your last offering there must be a connection. Jesus wasn't a great help when Hitler came to power, and witnessed the holocaust was he George...so one wonders why, perhaps as a master of the bible you may care to answer? As a god fearing christian (perhaps?) you might want to offer one of the oppressed immigrants, a room and board......just until they get settled in you see?Religion whatever shape or form, has from the beginning of time, been the cause of most wars throughout the world, so don't quote this load of old cobblers to me George, you may be taken in but I'm not though. Armageddon out of here now in case Evil wins the battle, and judging by the remarks of some of the idiots on here, it is a distinct possibility.....next abuser step up please! But in doing so be ORIGINAL, don't be like the idiot who refers to Hitlers bunker in 1945, he wouldn't know where Germany is and I suspect he is in short trousers still, or sitting in a bleeding room lighting Jess sticks...but I suppose it does take all kinds...even idiots!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

"Were you feeling sleepy following your long afternoon nap?"Yes George, reading yours and the other luvvies CRAP....ah! well it's almost six o'clock...........Matron! where's my bloody cocoa (translation for the luvvies), just in case they are offended.. "Hot chocolate"You see George, unlike your comedic background, I can be just or almost as funny as you......how's Nervo, and how did your prostate transplant go?  By god (oops!) my fingers ache trying to answer you luvvies, how about just for once, that you put up what exactly it is that I have got completely wrong, all the others that I ask singularly fail to do so, perhaps you can oblige George....will you, but as I said cut the comedy it doesn't work for you, in spite of your illustrious ancestors. ready, steady GO

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6400d

Ok, I am somewhat younger than you, but I well remember walking past the theatre in Victoria where the Crazy Gang played, but quite genuinely can’t say I have a clue what they were about as I was too young. But if they had a sense of humour, so?Anyway I thought you would usefully pick up the Koran quote for Ifty, instead of getting shirty. Thought Horlicks would be your favourite drink.Your Beloved Luvvie friends dished up the first legal state pension because they must have thought it just, and knew that you were coming along. Can’t all without exception, including the cat, be bad can they? Not wise to tar all with the same brush. You are not going to give up your pension just because the Luvvies started it, surely? You could just for once stop boring everyone by calling them Liberals.  Also Labour has said they will restore pensions, which I totally agree are now very mean, being fixed to prices rather than incomes. Hope your lot don’t abolish this just before we go back into inflation.According to history books God was on the side of both opposing armies and I agree, did I even to you really say that, that religion is the greatest cause of war when fighting for territory. A slip of your pen, but I draw to your attention that Hitler caused rather than witnessed the holocaust. Frankly don’t think Jesus had anything to do with it.Back to the serious point. Oh dear, you are not answering one question and only partly the other one. If I was sleeping at the back of the class I used to get a solid blackboard rubber thrown at me at high speed.You say, “Yes, as long as freedom of speech is kept within the law of our land” What in your opinion does ‘within’ mean? I see you are quoting law. Fine but not all of it. Friendly recommendation. See the Home Office site on the different bits of race legislation, which gives a good starting point for when they might apply one statute as against another depending on the severity of the crime.Secondly, kindly stop snoring at the back of the class, and tell us about your understanding of ‘incitement’ and ‘insults’. ( Not yours for once as my glass of nice Canadian wine is making me feel more benign). Then while I know it is too stressful to say WHAT you would do, at least have the good grace to tell us HOW you would distinguish and deal with these two activities – say when our returning soldiers were insulted to the point of making me as disgusted as you.Your fan could, sensibly please, have a go at this as well.

George Knox ● 6399d

Re  It’s not Hitler. In his dotage AMJA just feels the cold a bit more.           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx          oh dear, more personal abuse. But AMJA's posts make sense , more than can be said of yours, this one included.

Tony Price ● 6399d

Yes, I lowered myself to the use of sarcasm. This was because I found the extensive copying from a law as excessive and poor arguing. Its a way of saying "nah nah nah - look it says it here" - but not really taking the argument forward. I am aware of the law, but disagree with your interpretation of how it should be applied. So I do not need to see the exact wording. And I certainly found the claim of taking an oath as vain and self justifying. I thought both warranted sarcasm. I thought you man enough to take it. Especially as in terms of some of the insults thrown around this forum it was relatively gentle ribbing.But this is a minor issue compared to your inability to understand that my post tried to provide some level of insight into the views and mindset of those protesting. These are not my own views or mindset (i.e. I do not think there is any real western oppression) and this is obvious from my post. The mindset of the protestor may be wrong in point of fact - but if it is their views then it informs their actions and drives their behaviour. And if we, or our forces and agents, act in a way that re-inforces this mindset then we only pour petrol on that fire. We justify and endorse their mindset. Which means we give (in their minds) justification for actions such as protesting and worse.Why is it important to try to understand and try to affect the mindset of such protestors? I think the answer is obvious. Please, have a go at answering this yourself.

Alan Clark ● 6399d

The reason that I pasted the law of Public Order, was to let you see that in the case of this particular incident, an offence was committed, that caused a public outrage. I asked you but you did not respond, would you react the same if the BNP for example stood with placards insulting the Koran or Allah...they  would quite rightly be arrested. You seem to suggest that if the police had arrested these morons, there supporters would go on the rampage and that is a reason to ignore the feelings of those  who were grossly offended by their disgusting posters....what is the point of having laws if they are not upheld.....you might wish to reflect on what is happening in East London's streets as we speak, shootings, stabbings, murder, drugs etc. And nothing will change until the police are given the powers to arrest suspected perpetrators without the fear of being called racists. And just how many of those arrested for carrying knives have received the mandatory 5 years? prison sentence. I am a fan of zero tolerance, and thsat is why  I believe that these "protesters" as you call them, should be banged up, to send a message to others, that if you live here don't abuse our tolerance, even though the luvvies don't mind or care.I fully understand the mindset of thes people, they are protesting about our involvement in the Middle East and Afghanistan, as is their right, and this is where it changes. When we criticise anything to do with Islam we are referred to as Kaffirs (a racial slur) and lives are threatened. Yes its OK for them to do as they choose but we have to toe the line. They suggest throwing homosexuals off of a mountain, and tell me how many have been prosecuted for Homophobia..none I suspect" Being sensitive apparently applies only to them...failure to prosecute Mr Clark implies that it is OK, and that is going down the road to anarchy. 

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6399d

We have to toe the line.Well do we?That is why I asked you to opine on the difference between insults and incitement. You quoted, rightly, some law. You should look further.

George Knox ● 6399d

We have to toe the line.Well do we?Of course we all do. Otherwise what is the point of having them, or would you prefer to see a repeat of the last summit held for world leaders in London. Some morons who infiltrated and hijacked the demo, used it to go on a wanton rampage, wrecking property. We have to face that prospect again very soon, and I think robust action should be taken against any of those who are out to cause further mayhem.What do you prefer.......upholding the law of the land, or anarchy?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6399d

Your comparison to BNP protesting outside a mosque is different in substance, context and impact.There is evidence of the UK forces mal-treating people (including those later deemed to be not guilty) in Afghanistan and Iraq. It was a tiny number of soldiers, it was relatively minor mal-treatment. The protestors got that wrong - but they no doubt feel they have a valid point to make. They protested to soldiers - representatives of the armed forces that conducted the mal-treatment. So they probably felt they had the right audience. Also, as soldiers, they are robust enough not to be intimidated or outraged. In fact, no soldier reacted.The majority of people attending a mosque will not support terrorism, even if some terrorist claim to act in the name of their faith. They make no claim to represent any one else of the same faith, with all its schisms. The people attending the mosque will include those vulnerable to outrage - woman and children. So to be threatened and insulted by a BNP demonstration is very different to soldiers being insulted.My comparison to you is of orange marches in Ulster. Do you think it right that protestant Orangemen can troop through catholic areas of town and celebrate the success of one battle in front of those who are descendants of the very people who lost that battle (and the message is in fact worse than that)?You should not then compare the law of public outrage to a law against physical hurt. The public order law will always have the context and the messages as part of the decision of what causes offence. A knive, no matter of what make or colour will always cause harm if used in violence.You quoting from the law was useful after all. It says guilt is where one “displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting”. Now how might an unarmed protestor threaten a squad of soldiers? Personally I would not recommend it. The soldiers I know are pretty capable of looking after themselves.But, you might claim, the offense and threat was not to the soldiers – but the other public. And true it was the public that reacted and attacked the demonstrator. However there is no confirmation from you and your zero tolerance approach that the arrest of those was the correct thing to do.You recommend banging them up and sending a message – but cannot see that if we do that then the message that is received will be that the UK police pick on Muslims. So you want to send a message, but seem unable to understand or care how it will be received. You demonstrate this frequently in your posts – you push a statement and care not about the impact of the statement. That is the definition of being simple.

Alan Clark ● 6399d

I thought you were saying where there have been extremely offensive demonstrations that the police have to hold back (by which in this case I mean, and thought you meant, toe the line – and hold back un-robustly behind the line while others do what they please) while that mob insulted our returning soldiers. Were they insulting our troops, which they are allowed to do, or were they doing more, by inciting hatred? If so why?You need to look it up on the internet. This is not a game, so try answering the question. And no I am not an anarchist.The point made elsewhere about whether the soldiers could look after themselves is legally not relevant.You also may see how/if you could make use of http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-publications/publication-search/general/HO_Contest_strategy.pdf?view=Binary

George Knox ● 6399d

Tony I hope that some of these idiots have watched today's news, but I suspect that if they have they will keep shtum about it I mention.a) The prospect of the Al Queda sourcing nuclear material to make and detonate a "Dirty" Bomb" in the UK, this will make 7/7 seem like a picnic.b)An Albanian secret service agent who is accused of torture,wanted by the authorities at home and our police were given his true identity along with information given  to Interpol who issued a warrant for his arrest. He allegedly came here as an asylum seeker 10-12 years ago, was issued with a British Passport,and given a 2 bedroom flat along with DLA Disability Living Allowance. Appeals for his extradition have started........he will still be here in 10 years time HRA and all that jazz! But abuse was the response from the luvvies when I first posted this item! They obviously have no problem with these scrotes living here off the fat of the land!C) A couple with young children, unable to afford the mortgage on a 4 bedroom house, reluctantly decided to let it out, only to find out later that the woman who rented it had disappeared. The whole house when they entered, was wrecked and cannabis growing in every room, I sat watching it and wondered if those who found it hilarious at the time of my original post still do, along with the one and only Sheila Davies-Brock who compared me with Victor Meldrew, with her other snide comments. Will she now offer any sympathy for those whose lives are in ruins.......nah! not a chance The strange thing Tony is that some of these on here who puff and blow about abusive posts from me, are not too reluctant to make inappropriate comments......but that's the luvvie philosophy for you "Don't do what I do, Do what I say".....but hopefully they will all wake up soon!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6398d

Some extra information to help you sleep safe in your beds luvviesA note about Albanian criminalsThe scandal came to light when Albania’s chief of police complained that 100 criminals from his country have been granted British citizenship and now live here. The police chief said the criminals have been allowed to stay even though the Albanian government has informed the Home Office of the true identities of the men and their crimes, which also include rape and robbery. Many of the convicted criminals have been living in the UK for up to ten years and have started new families here. As the revelations exposed the shambles within the asylum system yet again, campaigners expressed their outrage. Sir Andrew Green, of MigrationWatch, said: ‘It is a real concern that people accused of, or even convicted of, very serious crimes should apparently find it so easy to gain asylum in Britain.’

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6398d

That's Reid's unfit for purpose Home Office immigration department breaking the immigration laws. No contest there.Are you going to comment re my thread today at 1645? You might have missed it because of the odd way this system works?

George Knox ● 6398d

Re  You recommend banging them up and sending a message – but cannot see that if we do that then the message that is received will be that the UK police pick on Muslims.      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    well as THEY were the ones protesting, there would be no other option, so I can't see how the Police could justifiably be accused of " picking on "  ie  singling out muslims where others were involved (not ).      Re  You demonstrate this frequently in your posts – you push a statement and care not about the impact of the statement. That is the definition of being simple.        that ruins a post which otherwise  had points worthy of consideration, and I must say I have never seen that as a definition of being simple, perhaps you can show us where? 

Tony Price ● 6398d

Re  You recommend banging them up and sending a message – but cannot see that if we do that then the message that is received will be that the UK police pick on Muslims.      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    well as THEY were the ones protesting, there would be no other option, so I can't see how the Police could justifiably be accused of " picking on "  ie  singling out muslims where others were involved (not ).      Re  You demonstrate this frequently in your posts – you push a statement and care not about the impact of the statement. That is the definition of being simple.        that ruins a post which otherwise  had points worthy of consideration, and I must say I have never seen that as a definition of being simple, perhaps you can show us where? 

Tony Price ● 6398d

Were they insulting our troops, which they are allowed to do, or were they doing more, by inciting hatred? If so why?George don't be a silly man, do you really believe that these people who were shouting and displaying remarks about our soldiers, being baby killers were not inciting hatred or incitement. Come back to reality George, you are suffering from a severe case of the luvvie syndrome! GEORGE you may think that they are allowed to be that abusive, but NOT in law I am afraid......it is and was a criminal offence, and the police bottled it!. You may not be an anarchist, but you seem to support it, if you can condone their outrageous disgusting behaviourSo on your premise, would I be free from prosecution if I did the same when Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri and other assorted scumbags spout their hatred in a public area as they did before they woke up and arrested him. Several people who did so, were arrested on the spot for doing so, but then again they weren't Muslim were they George

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6398d

Re  ".....but hopefully they will all wake up soon!       xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      somehow I doubt it, PC twoddle too heavily ingrained in them . I well remember one of the first posts I made on this Forum, of truthful content as usual, brought a torrent of abuse from one Jane Salisbury who termed me a racist fool and all other nasties, no contra logic or reason offered of course. I often wonder what drives them, some family or collective guilt complex, dislike of self, inability to get on with ones own, I can't decide but I just cannot understand why anyone who stands up for Queen and country is so vilified and those who are patently taking the " pith" from us , usually from abroad, are held up and defended. That case of the £12480 rent + in Acton was a classic example. And don't forget, much of the truth is purposely withheld from us. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony Price ● 6398d

As has happened before, you are a great one for misunderstanding me. I do not condone what happened any more than you do, so don't even try to put that one on me.Also note that I have said nothing about non Muslims being arrested, so that is another premise which you need not put on me.'NOT in law' you say at long last. As or if you are saying that it was a breach of the race laws then I am sure you know that if a formal complaint about racism is lodged, then the police, BY LAW, have to investigate.So, bearing in mind the strength of your views, did you lodge a complaint?If not, why not?

George Knox ● 6398d

"somehow I doubt it, PC twoddle too heavily ingrained in them"There is no Kudos, as I keep saying Tony, in standing up for our own kith and kin. The reality will hit them when public services collapse because of the excessive demands placed upon them, and they or a loved one cannot get a bed or urgent treatment. West Mid, is just about coping, and have had to on occasions close the A&E department, even emergencies, the elderly and vulnerable are left to feed themselves and end up malnourished. And today,one young man with learning difficulties went without food for 26 days. I am sure that it happens elsewhere as well! Chiding you and I Tony' gives them a lift to let their fellow luvvies at the  lib-dem club know just how moral they are......welcome to the world created by the liberal luvvie left brigade, last one leaving turn off the lights!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6398d

Re  very serious crimes should apparently find it so easy to gain asylum in Britain.’       xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      and as the truth seeps out re the shambles of immigration, be it supposedly legal or otherwise, this Govt. who are the main architects thereof are doing their best to suppress the truth. For example that paedophiles are working with children as there is no record in this country of their crimes back home whereas an indig can and is vetted, is an insult to parents here. And the attempts to disguise immigrant penetration is legendary. And persons on this Forum are only too pleased to back up the falsehoods.Did one not recently repeat what the Council had published re immigration % in the Borough, at an absurdly low figure. That the Council should is one thing, but that a poster should joyously promote it is something else. We are a minority in the Borough now, and which situation will accelerate. So my " homeland " has been given away without my permission or agreement, nothing in any  Political Party's manifesto.

Tony Price ● 6398d

Re  public services collapse because of the excessive demands placed upon them, and they or a loved one cannot get a bed or urgent treatment.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      until 4 or 5 years ago I had a neighbour who was in charge of the Drugs Dept in a major hospital ( and whose wife worked for the Council in the Welfare / Benefits Dept ). He told me the public are kept in the dark re immigrants, many of whom land at Heathrow with major diseases and have to secreted at night into  "special secure" wards in the hospital, where they are attended to by persons wearing complete protective clothing etc etc. His wife used to come home totally depressed with witnessing the loads of money handed over to immigrants, so much she had to resign despite having been an employee there for 20 + years. Due to their seeing even then  how Ealing was going, they sold up and moved to Essex.

Tony Price ● 6398d

Fair 'nuf, Tony, I'll concede that I got carried away in the last paragraph. This ranting milarky is hard to control. I'll correct my previous statement regarding the definition of simple - you are right, that was poorly explained. Here's the new version:"Pushing a single message from a single view-point and doing so repeatedly with little concern of how it is presented, who receives it, or how it is received may well the sign of a mind of limited awareness and even of limited intellect."Do you think that is most justifiable? I'm happy to continue to refine this.

Alan Clark ● 6398d

The intellectual process is being queried. Stand pontificating on the soap box long enough, just as they do at Hyde Park Corner, and some unthinking types will get swept away by crowd hysteria as they do.What I query is the agenda. Is it to whip up hostility, just like the insulters of our troops, and just that? Neither of the two can or will dare answer. The reason they dare not answer is because despite requests they cannot demonstrate what or how they will deal with their issues – with the object of making an impact which people will act upon. These are the do nothing types who just grumble, like the proverbial granny mocking and rocking in the dark corner by the hearth.They just insult people who disagree with them SIMPLY because they disagree. Everyone who disagrees gets called a Liberal. We now have one of them who quotes some  law – no problem with that – but who is too timid to use it.It’s all talk and no trousers. Almost all other readers have a nose for that and respond accordingly.They have no moral courage. There is just a sinister agenda to whip up hostility with dogma. The Ifty syndrome – in another form.Why listen to those tarred with same brush?

George Knox ● 6398d

"What I query is the agenda. Is it to whip up hostility, just like the insulters of our troops, and just that? Neither of the two can or will dare answer. The reason they dare not answer is because despite requests they cannot demonstrate what or how they will deal with their issues – with the object of making an impact which people will act upon."George I don't know if you really are thick,or just acting it. The agenda (mine anyway!) is for the law to be equitable,and upheld for ALL that is what I am continually being told it should be. Also if people wish to settle here and enjoy our welfare state handouts, they are treated the same as me, look around you man for Christ sake, in today's papers we (you and me!) are actually funding another Muslim preacher Anjam Choudary one of many, along with some who should not even be here, yes he who organised the insults to our troops, wants to young Muslims to go abroad to train for a jihad against the very people who feed, clothes, and educates his kids and this is his way of showing his gratitude........are you bloody serious George asking what my agenda is. We have sat back for years and have been walked all over, and it's high time, that you and your ilk woke up and smelled the coffee. As a matter of interest George what should we do with this excuse for a human being, who believes in stoning to death adulteresses, throw homosexuals off a mountain. He should be immediately charged with either sedition or treason for plotting against the state........you would ignore it, or send him on an all expenses holiday I suppose.I have asked you a couple of times to let me know what you want answered, for a start the hate preachers would be put on trial, as the law demands for sedition or treason. I also suggested that to deal with the scum who shouted abuse were also dealt with under OUR laws not pussyfooting around being sensitive, I would remind you that they have stated that they do not recognise western laws, only Allah's....is that what you want me and others to ignore, not a chance, this and other countries have sacrificed millions of good people to achieve the democracy we have, to allow strangers to destroy it.....So George tell me EXACTLY what questions you want answered, along with YOUR answer to what should we do with these hate preachers and their followers on state benefits, don't take too long now? List them and I will endeavour to answer OK? What is your agenda for ignoring hate filled people who want to destroy us?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6398d

Thanks for the lecture, but I did'nt come down the river on a bike.How many more times do I have to ask you the same question.What are you personally doing actively about the issues? Pontificating gets you where?You failed to lodge a complaint with the police, so it appears.Actions speak louder than words. Until you answer, you are no more than an armchair xxxx.Try some real coffee instead of of kneejerk instant.

George Knox ● 6398d

"Thanks for the lecture, but I did'nt come down the river on a bike."I'm sure you will be daft enough to try one day George. You try to kid us that you can walk on it!!!"How many more times do I have to ask you the same question.What are you personally doing actively about the issues?" Pontificating gets you where?"Other than protesting  in the local press or on local Forums, and as I am only English and law abiding, what do you suggest.......like you do, let it wash over you. Or post and pontificate on the TW8 forum. A little of it produced below..but may I ask what YOU are doing to enlighten Ifty, Pontificating, or something more? Why did you quote this from the Koran George.....incitement, Outrage why exactly""The Koran says: “As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods.”In this country none of us want our children to be taught this at all, and such teachings would be extremely worrying to children. We are told reliably that there are Muslim terrorists in our country. You don't need to be told George, open your eyes and ears,like the 7/7 bombers there are many others just waiting for the right momentYou failed to learn respect from your mother. It's on record that you failed her. Until you earn our respect and until we believe that this threat has gone from our shores, no one  will agree to your rapacious demands. Until you stop insulting the host country which has given refuge to so many, your opinion is worth no more than dust.People like you incite racial hatred and the silent majority of peace loving Muslims who want a new life are angry and disgusted and frightened by the prison of hate you build around them." Exactly George, that's what I have been saying and recently too......along with all those who choose to insult, threaten and abuse the hosts country's tolerance. You are learning to face up to the reality of the threats these nutters are making apparently,but I am left puzzled why you only posted this on TW?I must say I was not too impressed with the quality of your questions George.very sixth form stuff really!What about my question concerning the hate preacher Anjem Choudary who does no  work for his benefits, Food-Housing-Medical care and the for education of his kids. Meanwhile many of our own are forced to explain why they are not actively seeking employment........Any comment George, and by the way, he is not alone in doing this with the backing of this government, who will hammer those who have paid in to it, but let this scrote do as he pleases with impunity. Wake up George you are being stitched up, but can't see it.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6398d

It’s not for me to show you how to think for yourself. It’s not for me to show you how to use democratic processes which you can perfectly well research and use yourself, as I do.You have issues. Pursue them with the objective of getting change, if that’s what you want.You can do plenty of things and still remain entirely law abiding and English. You still can’t answer why you did not lodge a complaint with the police. Are you chicken? You know what happened to King Canute. You know what Churchill thought of Chamberlain.Your inertia is exactly how others take advantage of the weaknesses in any democratic system which has freedom as its main banner.If you take no action, and there is no evidence that you have, then all this pontificating loses you any credibility. To use your terminology don’t smell the coffee, but start drinking it. Stop pussyfooting and stop playing the Ifty game. To me your inaction is pathetic. As you use such rude language about which many, and not one person, have complained, who on earth do you think is going to give you much or even any support, let alone respect for your views? Empty vessels make the most sound. You will have learnt that on the famous ship. And that is how you come across most strongly. Ok, not nice, but it appears a common held assessment. There is still time for redemption. You have been accused of making racist remarks and because you have no actions (as opposed to thought) to evidence what  you want politically, you raise a very strong question in my mind that you have a different agenda. That is the only reason I have corresponded with you. You know that anyway.You seem to be energised greatly. If so channel your energies into getting positive results, instead of regaling us with your unremitting stream of negativity. THAT is my answer to your questions.If all you want to do is simply use the Press and the blogsites, then unless you say in your next response that you are going to something more active, then your reply or silence will be good enough for me to conclude that you will make extremely limited progress, and also you are wasting many peoples time, including your own.

George Knox ● 6398d

Re  may well the sign of a mind of limited awareness and even of limited intellect."      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    no, not everyone will agree with what Michael says or indeed how he says it sometimes, but the fact remains the man's heart is in the right place. He is defending what is/ was his and which is being given / taken away. I object as well and I guarantee those who are taking "our " place would not countenance it in their countries. As I see it, Michael only pitches into someone who has already attacked his person. He seems quite intellectual and with facts and figures at his disposal, neither being the mark of a simple mind. Time will come when many who have attacked him will secretly agree he had been correct with his warning and standing up for his country, kith and kin.

Tony Price ● 6397d

Re  Why listen to those tarred          xxxxxxxxxxxxxx          persactly, so awf ye go, dismissed

Tony Price ● 6397d

"Michael only pitches into someone who has already attacked his person."If only I could agree with that. And I sincerely wish I could.If those would not countenance it in other countries, why do you? Not everyone is a so called Liberal.Surely even you must have considered the limitations of arm chair politics?His heart would be in the right place if he stopped standing, and instead started acting.

George Knox ● 6397d

George  Why are you bothering? You seems far too intelligent to get involved with all of this?http://bnp.org.uk/resources/cyberactivism/ Explains all.Best regards TW

Tony Wood ● 6397d

Re  Wake up George you are being stitched up, but can't see it.        xxxxxxxxxxx          it is not possible anyone cannot see what is going on. That they seemingly condone it, ie mass immigration and all the injustices to us that go with it raises the question what is their purpose and agenda.

Tony Price ● 6397d

Re  I used to get a solid blackboard rubber thrown at me           xxxxxxxxxxxxxx    now now, that's a verbotten word , thanks to PC idiots

Tony Price ● 6397d

Re  Wake up George you are being stitched up, but can't see it. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        and this is what's going on, serious to say the least :-          Politicians Fret as Muslim Population Swells in Europe Amid Little IntegrationTuesday, March 24, 2009  By Greg Burke Print ShareThisBRUSSELS, Belgium —  A clash of civilizations may be taking place on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's also happening a lot more quietly in European cities.Old Europe's population is dwindling even as immigration and high birth rates among Muslim groups are swelling in cities all over the continent.And in Belgium, it is no different.Filip Dewinter, a leader of the far-right separatist party Vlaams Belang, predicts there will eventually be a kind of civil war when the longtime residents of Brussels — the nation's capital and administrative seat of the European Union — realize their city is about to be taken over by Muslim immigrants.Although there are no official statistics on how many Muslims live in Brussels, it is believed they make up about 25 percent of the city’s 1 million urban residents. Dewinter, who opposes immigration and has called Islamophobia a "duty," claims three of the 19 sections of Brussels, each with its own mayor, now have Muslim majorities."In those neighborhoods it's not our government that's in power," he said, "but the Muslim authorities — the mosques, the imams — who are in charge."FOX News visited one of those neighborhoods, called Molenbeek, which looks more like North Africa than the heart of Europe.For some Belgians, that's not a problem. The mayor of Molenbeek, Socialist Philippe Moureaux, has worked hard to help Muslims try to integrate over the past decade and a half.Moureaux believes multiculturalism is a good thing. He says even those who disagree with him should get used to life as it is in Brussels today: "Be realistic. They're here. They're relatively numerous and they're growing."Many Moroccans have been in Belgium for decades and are now citizens, as are their children. The imam of one of the main mosques, which thousands of young Moroccans attend each Friday, stressed that Muslim immigrants have starting blending in around Brussels.VideoCapital of Eurabia? During FOX News' brief visit, there were no fiery demonstrations of the kind that have wracked the Netherlands, though the municipality is sometimes considered dangerous to traverse at night.Yet Molenbeek remains disconcerting. Belgian police assigned three plainclothes officers to watch over a FOX News team shooting street scenes one morning in Molenbeek. When FOX News returned in the afternoon as more people were out and about, the police said it would be safer not to get out of the car. It wasn't even dark yet.Part of that fear stems from particularly nasty street crime, something that can happen in bad neighborhoods in any big European — or American — city. But part of it is due to strong anti-Western sentiment among Belgium's Muslims, which suggests that true integration is still a long way off.Mayor Moureaux blames the problems on a tiny number of very violent youths who are condemned by everyone, including the Muslim community.But for Dewinter, integration simply isn't working. He claims the great majority of the Muslims don't want it to work. So instead of being a melting pot, Brussels has become a city that does everything possible to appease Islam, he claims."Halal food is served in the schools, not only for Muslim children, but for all the children," said Dewinter, adding that municipal pools in Brussels now have separate hours for men and women to swim.The anti-immigrant Vlaams Belang, once considered a pariah party, now controls about 24 percent of the Belgian vote, a trend matched in other European countries with burgeoning Muslim populations.Though the immigration debate has not yet reached the fever pitch it has in the U.S., a real test will come when a major European city has a Muslim majority. The first could be Marseilles, in France, or Amsterdam, in the Netherlands. But don't count out Brussels, the heart and capital of Europe.

Tony Price ● 6397d

Why are you bothering? You seems far too intelligent to get involved with all of this?http://bnp.org.uk/resources/cyberactivism/ Do you dream of the BNP only, how about mentioning/researching cyber extremism, but that would not even occur to you would it. George may be intelligent as are many others who post on here, but ask a simple question like "If this Island with it's limited and scarce space continues to allow unmanaged immigration, at what point do we say doors are now closed? If you believe they should stay open, consider how are we the taxpayers to be expected to pay more,to subsidise their Health care (GP Services), provide housing, Education, Hospitals and employment. Then we have to remember we are now in a deep recession, people are having their homes repossessed, unemployment now at 2.1 million and rising daily, and almost as many are already homeless Hospitals under extreme pressures to cope with the demand.So Mr Wood, for all your intelligence (allegedly! and the other luvvies who spit blood at the mere mention of closing the borders, please explain how we can manage to maintain the status Quo, And fulfill all our so called international obligations.....notwithstanding the obligations to us. This should cause you more problems potentially, than the perceived danger  of the BNP. So what about some info on Muslim extremists cyber space...just as a matter of equality for all you see, I know that is one of your attributes..isn't it?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6397d

I'm not sure who I feel most sympathy for. Is it Simon, who in the original post to this thread asked that these long ranting, opinion ridden posts are discouraged - and so got a long ranting thread?Is it Ali who dared to poke his head above the battlements, predicted he'd get flamed, and got soundly flamed?Is it side-kick Tony who reminds me of the old Spitting Image David Steel tiny puppet to AMJA's David Owen? (The irony of the relative politics involved here is not lost on me either.)Is it even the grand old doom-mongerer AMJA himself and his virtual placard of 'the end is nigh' roaming the cyber-space forums, drunk on his own vitriol?Or is it me - who got caught up in all this pish-poor pub-talk version of question time?

Alan Clark ● 6397d

"I'm not sure who I feel most sympathy for." Is it Simon, who in the original post to this thread asked that these long ranting, opinion ridden posts are discouraged - and so got a long ranting thread?Is it Ali who dared to poke his head above the battlements, predicted he'd get flamed, and got soundly flamed?Is it side-kick Tony who reminds me of the old Spitting Image David Steel tiny puppet to AMJA's David Owen? (The irony of the relative politics involved here is not lost on me either.)"Is it even the grand old doom-mongerer AMJA himself and his virtual placard of 'the end is nigh' roaming the cyber-space forums, drunk on his own vitriol?" Vitriol? Is it me that is proposing harm to anybody, methinks you have your blinkers on again. The vitriol is coming from the people (Muslim extremists) who wish not only me harm but you as "kaffirs" as well. If you cannot see that then you are in for a mighty shock if these ar***ol*s eventually source material for a dirty bomb. And the Taliban are training (allegedly) UK citizens how to manufacture more sophisticated explosives. I  well remember the luvvies at the time (30's) who accused Winston Churchill of being a "war monger", but had to eat humble pie when Hitler let loose his blitz on us in Sept 39' of course I hope nobody is harmed, but IMHO it doesn't bode well as far as AL Queda's threats to us are concerned, or do you think MI5 and MI6 have got it all wrong. Your opinion?.....ignore it and it will go away, and although no fan of Gordo, he says that extremism must be confronted, but some of the deluded on here, believe that the BNP are the ones who will eventually blow some of us up, or do you know different Alan? Did you mean to say Doom-monger Alan, only I wondered what or who a MONGERER was/is I'll certainly have another glass of that there vitriol, make it a treble.......then I might laugh at some of the alleged humour floating around on here, but I wouldn't dare to laugh at the non PC variety though"Or is it me - who got caught up in all this pish-poor pub-talk version of question time?"Most of the above, the work of one ultra intelligent intellectual, who allegedly, just like some of the other hypocrites on here, does not like personal attacks, but obviously it's justified when he does it.....yet another example of the Luvvie Philosophy...just to remind you "Don't do as I DO" "Do as I say"!!!!!!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6397d

Hello Darling Why on Earth would I reply to you after advising George not to bother?However as your latest is such a gem it may be fun to do just that,so here goes....  Firstly,that's a nice edit on what I said to George,very clever leaving out the "Explains all" no one will notice that will they?"Do you dream of the BNP only, how about mentioning/researching cyber extremism, but that would not even occur to you would it. George may be intelligent as are many others who post on here, but ask a simple question like "If this Island with it's limited and scarce space continues to allow unmanaged immigration, at what point do we say doors are now closed? If you believe they should stay open, consider how are we the taxpayers to be expected to pay more,to subsidise their Health care (GP Services), provide housing, Education, Hospitals and employment."   I never give the BNP a second thought usually,but...but after your partner in grime posted a couple of very eloquent pieces on this Forum,I wondered "Who did he get to write that?",so I cut and pasted the entire texts into Google and guess what...up they popped almost verbatim on the news page of the BNP site,whilst there I scratched around and found the reference to cyberactivism,you'll know the one.  I have never stated anywhere that I'm in favour of unbridled immigration,I'm not...but if we do have to limit it even more, then I don't want a government that points a finger at one particular race or religion. Instead I want a system that asks (say) wealthy white Americans exactly the same questions as it does (say) destitute Somalians,what I really don't want is the "If your white you're alright but if you's black get back" attitude that you "appear" to espouse."Then we have to remember we are now in a deep recession, people are having their homes repossessed, unemployment now at 2.1 million and rising daily, and almost as many are already homeless Hospitals under extreme pressures to cope with the demand."  Yes all of that is true,but ask yourself honestly,who is to blame for that? To save your brain power I'll answer that for you. Greedy Buggers are to blame for it,corporations that have lent money to folk that couldn't have possibly,even in good circumstances,paid it back.People that were entrusted under both Reagan and Thatcher (and Bush/Blair) to look after "our" finances,good job Ron,fantastic job Maggie! Yes 2.1 million unemployed is awfull,I'm going to be predictable here and remind you that we had very nearly 4 million under you know who,so it's not unknown territory.   The NHS,yes it is overwhelmed,but not by immigrants,they're the ones keeping it going,my wife is a nurse so I feel partially qualified in saying that. What has happened there,is that they are up to their armpits in form filling,again a legacy from Mrs Thatchers days,Total Accounting they call it,Britain took it up just as America realised it didn't work,(as an aside,I can tell you that TA is what ruined the BBC too,but that's a different topic).I'll skip your next piece of rubbish,except the part which goes:-   "So what about some info on Muslim extremists cyber space...just as a matter of equality for all you see, I know that is one of your attributes..isn't it?"  Well yes it is one of my attributes actually,I have only ever posted to one of Ifty's rants,on TW8..if you can be bothered to check, you'll find that I gave him very short shrift for using children as a means to an end for his politico/religio/racialo ambitions. So "no dice" for you there I'm afraid.Please just try thinking for a change,it doesn't hurt honestly.

Tony Wood ● 6397d

The NHS,yes it is overwhelmed,but not by immigrants...... then why are the white patients Hammersmith Hospital's in at least two outpatients clinics under-represented.The conditions I have, and so my presence at these clinics, are not due to racial differences.Could the under-representation be due to non-immigrants going privately I wonder?

Alan Brainsby ● 6396d

Were they insulting our troops, which they are allowed to do, or were they doing more, by inciting hatred? If so why?George you really must pay attention, you suggested that they are allowed to INSULT our troops, my reply to you was "But not in Law" so please read what I ACTUALLY said rather than what you THOUGHT I said! Would you care to change your post about me misunderstanding you?Your reply about you not condoning what happened at this demonstration, is not borne out by your robust attempt to say that it was lawful, when even after I produced a copy of it, which clearly outlined the offence, you and your sidekick Alan Clark seemed to me at least, determined to ignore the law, simply because of any potential disturbances from like minded individuals, no excuse IMO. But I will await the response if any, from either of you if the extreme right wing make abusive comments either with posters or verbally at any demonstration, (that is if the police or gutless politicians don't ban it first! Part of another report about Muslims being offended;"David Davis, the Shadow Home Secretary, said that slogans such as "Massacre those who insult Islam" amounted to incitement to murder and that police should take "a no tolerance" approach to them. He told the Sunday Telegraph, "Clearly, some of these placards are incitement to violence and indeed incitement to murder." Dominic Grieve, the Conservative legal affairs spokesman, expressed concern that it could prove impossible to identify those responsible because arrests had not been made at the time. He said, "It is certainly not a happy state of affairs where such a demonstration takes place and those people who are acting in that way don't end up under arrest before the demonstration is ended." David Winnick, on the Commons home affairs committee, said those carrying banners threatening violence should be prosecuted and, where possible, deported. "Those who are temporarily in Britain, the sooner they are out of the country the better," he said. "Those who have been given permission to live here, insofar as it is possible in law, it would be better for this country and indeed for the Muslim community if that right was removed." The Labour MP Shahid Malik, also on the committee, wrote to Sir Ian Blair, head of the Metropolitan Police, calling for prosecutions."Insult a Muslim and they want to massacre you (Again no arrests). Insult our troops or any of us, and that in the eyes of the luvvies is acceptable behaviour (again no arrests were made.......Public safety again, repercussions?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6396d

There is no need to feel sympathy for me. It would be better though if posters could be a little more succinct with their views and not repeat them too frequently. What do they say about he who shouts loudest?The Dutch say "The louder a person shouts, the less he knows. "The French say "It is not the cow who shouts the loudest who gives the most milk."

Simon Measures ● 6396d

"Who did he get to write that?",so I cut and pasted the entire texts into Google and guess what...up they popped almost verbatim on the news page of the BNP site,whilst there I scratched around and found the reference to cyberactivism,you'll know the one..No Have not seen it sorry for the disappointment!There you go again BNP obsessiveness, but still no examples of Muslim cyberactivism, there are plenty to choose from aren't there. Isn't it easier to cut and paste a point you want to make rather than typing it out. Did you find it bizarre that with all their faults, that they wish to defend the culture,traditions and rights of the people of this country. I will remind you bird brain, that they are a legal party and can contest elections, unlike  those you have no criticisms, or expression of your disgust and revulsion, for the extremists on the other side of the coin, but it is not surprising is it? I believe it is called making one appear highly moral!"The NHS,yes it is overwhelmed,but not by immigrants,they're the ones keeping it going,my wife is a nurse so I feel partially qualified in saying that"I'm not sure whether you have ever been to the West Mid hospital or not, you may have to alter your opinion.Yes immigrants are manning our hospitals, but you overlook why, forgive me for cut and paste but my fingers are becoming sore from answering you luvvies!Nurses' stress 'costs NHS pounds 24m' Chris Mowbray Sunday, 3 December 1995 NOTE THE DATEOver-stressed nursing staff are costing the National Health Service pounds 24m a year in lost working days, the leader of Britain's 300,000 nurses is due to reveal tomorrow.Christine Hancock, the Royal College of Nursing's general secretary, is expected to tell a conference on staff support that 360,000 days a year are being lost because of illness caused by the pressure of nurses' jobs.Many are suffering from heart trouble and sickness caused by drug and alcohol abuse. But they are often frightened to talk about their problems because, following the case of Beverley Allitt, who is serving a life sentence for killing babies in her care, they are worried they will be considered unfit for work.Ms Hancock is so concerned she is calling for the health service to set up a staff-welfare system So as you see blockhead think before engaging brain.As you see, our nurses had become overworked, undervalued, underpaid, expected to be social workers, dinner ladies etc. They decided they had been taken for mugs for long enough and left in droves, Answer.. entice nurses from abroad to train here in top london hospitals, worth its weight in gold, plus wages that, although not great far exceeded what they could only dream of at home. Yes I am thankful that they came, but there were many plusses in it for them in doing so.  So Don't try to make me feel guilty about it, I have heard it all beforeWell yes it is one of my attributes actually,I have only ever posted to one of Ifty's rants,on TW8..if you can be bothered to check, you'll find that I gave him very short shrift for using children as a means to an end for his politico/religio/racialo ambitions. So "no dice" for you there I'm afraid.Wow that really is fantastic, fancy you taking on poor old harmless Ifty, no medals for that one I'm afraid, that poor deluded sod is as obsessed with education as you are with the BNP both of you somewhat paranoid in addition. Now try one of the real cyberextremist sites and have a few words with their  opinions about what a god awful place the UK and the west is, and we will one day fly the flag of Islam over 10 Downing street, that was the prediction of a muslim MP by the way....let me know when you have done questioning them. I don't remember the BNP having the same aspirations do you?"Please just try thinking for a change,it doesn't hurt honestly." It appears to have damaged your thought process though, so will pass on this one!Your assertion that I have pointed at one particular race,is as far as I can recall was that I mentioned the Afghanistan family  and Afghanistan Hijackers, Bulgarian criminals, along with the Albanian criminals coming here, should I not voice concerns about them! I have, as you and others who have not been slow to point out, focused on the Muslim extremist and the dangers they pose, which you seem to think doesn't exist. This is to do with a religion nothing at all to do with race, something that seems to confuse you. And on immigration, again from memory I have only spoken about either illegal or uncontrolled immigration,not preventing any particular race from coming here...unless you can prove otherwise?Now repeat after me what I have said about "Race and religion" they must not be confused  with one another.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6396d

"How profound SimonThere is no need to feel sympathy for me."But of course I do Simon luvvie, cos you seem all confused about cows shouting, along with the Dutch and the French cows shouting, don't you know that cows don't shout, they MOOOOOOOO. Have an early night, you will feel better in the morning what are you doing up so late anyway?"What do they say about he who shouts loudest?"He will be the one with the sorest throat in the morning?"The Dutch say "The louder a person shouts, the less he knows. "So theirs and our town criers are ignorant then?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6396d

Vitriol from Muslim extremists....what on this forum? I must have missed that thread. No, I specifically meant your vitriol presented in endless and endlessly repeated messages. We saw, read and understood your point of view first time round. Stop being that loud cow.Repeating allegations that there is an imminent dirty bomb makes absolutely no difference to anything. It makes it no more or less likely. Its no more or less scary. Its no more or less reduced in possibility because you have repeated some government line. We all saw the news. We do not need you to repeat it.I've never mentioned BNP. You have. Not me. Correction and apology please.Now, what to do about the threat of terrorism? You say confront it. But lessons from history and from the wider world say that the only solution is to defuse the source of the mindsets that enable it. To make a person a terrorist you need to convince them that the option of hurting innocents and possibly themselves is the only option and that it is a sacrifice worth making. Terrorist are (or were at least) pretty ordinary people. It takes a mix of propoganda, brain-washing and personal experience to turn them into terrorist ... but they start the process volountarily. There are plenty of texts and studies on this. The problem with confronting terrorism is that most often it ends up fuelling the fire than drives people into extremist views. Every military act against terrorist is re-interpreted as subjegation or unprovoked attacks. Every police action to uncover, monitor or control possible terrorists is seen as examples of persecution or a police state. It is like a medicine that partly alleviates the symptons but completely fails to cure the ill.Please be clear - I am not saying that we stop the necessary actions to prevent terrorism. Nor am I under-estimating the possibility or impact of terrorism.I am saying that you have not offered a workable solution. You only offer scaring, doom, fear and prejudice. So what is your solution? and ref doom-monger corrections - if I corrected you over every typo you make we'd be here for ever. In my defence, there may be a valid need for the extra -er as you do go on and on. And on. And on.

Alan Clark ● 6396d

Last point - actually you could argue the scene was something to be proud of. Although there is almost certainly no doubt that the police, if asked, would disagree with the protestors they did the right thing to protect them against the public backlash. That took courage and dedication to their duty.But they would arrest other demonstrators disrupting and/or abusing Islam wouldn't they.......and indeed have as I have said before done so.No, the senior officers were cowards, because they took the easy option, and were ordered to treat them "sensitively" by the chav Home secretary Jacqui Smith. I would take a bet, that the majority  of those officers ordered to guard these slimeballs would secretly have loved to have clobbered them with the insulting placards, especially those who had served in the armed forces.......but me, I would have sent for the meat wagon, and put them on the first plane out to Afghanistan or Iraq, that's where their hearts are surely! But then again they might have to work for a living....no welfare system there!Finally to show their equality credentials they bend over backwards to accommodate the beliefs of an officer who refused to guard the Israeli embassy.......remember this usual PC rubbish: "Scotland Yard said that it would consider special requests to move officers on moral grounds, with each case considered separately. But the Metropolitan Police Authority, which oversees the force's work, and which asked for an inquiry, said it was 'unacceptable for officers to choose their duties' as confidence in policing could be undermined. Muhammed Abdul-Bari, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that anyone joining the police force had a responsibility to discharge their given duties. 'Being asked to guard a foreign embassy in no way implies an acceptance of that country's policy or actions,' Abdul-Bari said. So in spite of all this condemnation they bottled it didn't they?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6396d

"We saw, read and understood your point of view first time round. Stop being that loud cow."You say "we this and we that" You are the spokesman for whom, were you elected on one of these forum soiree's?"We all saw the news. We do not need you to repeat it."How many did you ask, or just another presumption?"Now, what to do about the threat of terrorism? You say confront it. But lessons from history and from the wider world say that the only solution is to defuse the source of the mindsets that enable it."What you are suggesting is that we shape our foreign polices and have it scrutinised by the Muslim Parliament before we adopt it. Whether they, or anybody else do not approve, we have a so called democratically elected government, and if we go down that road, we may just as well surrender now, and abandon the process.What will be the next group or gaggle of religious fanatics to threaten us, if we do not comply with their wishes, pandering and appeasement does not work, remember the Nazi rise to power in the 30's, Poland-Czechoslovakia invaded, while Chamberlain was content to appease Hitlers desires for his Third  Reich. Stop pandering to them, they don't have to live here. "Every police action to uncover, monitor or control possible terrorists is seen as examples of persecution or a police state. It is like a medicine that partly alleviates the symptoms but completely fails to cure the ill."Police state? Persecution? Do we stand back while they covertly purchase or manufacture bombs to destroy us. The next one they plan will make 7/7 look insignificant. You mention medicine alleviating the ill but fails to cure the ill.....suggestion, stronger and more potent medicine deportation or prison for treason...... end of!Deport and withdraw passports and visas from non UK citizens after trial, and with only one appeal allowed. Life imprisonment for treason with no chance of release, scrap the Human Rights Act, and revert back to our own laws. The hate clerics to be given a choice of going voluntarily, or deported back to the lands that they originated from, again after trial and one appeal only, we make the decision not some unelected judges in Strasbourg!"I spread fear and prejudice", Yes! you and I should be fearful. And talking of prejudice, yes I am prejudiced against anyone, no matter who or where they are from, and who wish to destroy the things that millions have fought and died for.So in a nutshell if they don't like it pi*s off to where things are better than here, or wait until the election and vote for cuddly George Galloway!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6395d

These days the forum is dominated by a number of people who are often rude, bigotted and interested only in their own opinion. I think it is fair to describe these people as "mass debaters".Could I suggest these mass debaters go & spread their unpleasant seed elsewhere? Not to put to much of a point on the above, this little man obviously cannot see the irony of his post. He uses the words "mass debaters", then has the gall to talk about rudeness.....It seems to be a characteristic on many forums, to show disgust at alleged abuse, and then promptly perpetrate their own brand of abuse. Don't let them dominate anything without comment, that's why the country is going down the pan, the good silent majority have been shouted down by some of these "Good people" by insinuating membership of the BNP, NF and other organisations. and one scrote sarcastically suggested that I was tired sitting in my bunker, This is the ploy they often use to keep you suppressed and quiet It's time for change. I wonder how many of them are demonstrating against the G20 conferenceIt would not have escaped your notice, that they cannot or will not explain what and why I cannot give an opinion on what I see as discrimination, and want only to discuss what they want......sorry I won't refrain from doing so, just as long as the moderators keep it on. They do not have to reply or open the thread, if they are that easily offended!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6395d

Thank goodness for people like AMJA and Tony who have the courage speak up for the silent majority.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6394d

"Thank goodness for people like AMJA and Tony who have the courage speak up for the silent majority."Jean it is refreshing to read your post, rather than the offering from this morons abuse, who professes to be a paragon of virtue, and then exposes to everyone, all of his true credentials. He even has to use insults to name a separate thread.......I may just try that myself soon.........watch this space!Topic: Enough of the old ranter.      Forum Home  Posted by: Graham Weeks Date/Time: 29/03/09 13:14:00  I have had more than a bellyful.Being all for freedom of speech (but only for me though you see!) I suggest other posters be free to follow my example of non-response to him now. (You know, like sheep, cos I'm always right!)It could mark a return to civility.

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6394d

You're not the silent majority; you're the noisy minority.

Susan Kelly ● 6394d

You're not the silent majority; you're the noisy minority.Blimey! I thought you had emigrated,and that's a bit rich coming from you, you're not too slow yourself in opening your gob are you? Now go away and ask someone intelligent what exactly "silent majority" means in this context. Think before opening trap!!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6393d

Re  Thank goodness for people like AMJA and Tony who have the courage speak up for the silent majority.          xxxxxxxxxxxx        thanks Jean, but you have come up with some superb postings yourself, and I hope you will continue to do so ( time permitting , of course !! )

Tony Price ● 6393d

Re  You're not the silent majority; you're the noisy minority.          xxxxxxxxxxxx        rubbish, utter tripe. Read your papers, polls etc etc, and answer why this Govt. fall over themselves to hide the REAL truth re numbers from we the public. They are running witless worrying what will happen when the s.it hits the fan. A few more cases like that ongoing scandal in Acton wasting our money at unbelievable rate on  those who not deserve it, but get it because of what this Govt.has made feasible. There is now another scandal possibly having a D notice slapped on it, out of fear of public reaction. Anyway, point us to any useful posts you have made.

Tony Price ● 6393d

Thanks Tony, Actually I am just getting over a nasty bout of 'flu but have enjoyed keeping up with news on the forum! I shall of course continue to contribute to the forum when I can.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6393d

You three - Fernandez, Price & AMJA - remind me of the Scottish Nationalists, who insist that they speak for all Scots in demanding independence, when every survey shows that the majority of Scots want to stay in the union.You're entitled to your opinions, although at least AMJA has finally been admonished for his appalling rudeness, but don't claim to speak for the majority.

Susan Kelly ● 6392d

Re  but don't claim to speak for the majority.           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    you seem unable , or unwilling to absorb facts, such as immigration is what concerns the vast majority of this country, near 80 % I think. Prior to the last Gen. Election it topped the list of greatest concerns, ahead even of the NHS  or Education. So stop telling untruths. I appreciate  Nazis used to believe the bigger the lie, the more it is likely to be believed, or Goebbels said to tell a lie enough times and it will stick, but with us , it won't, so no point in repeating the lie.

Tony Price ● 6392d

Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether or not others agree with it. This is still supposed to be a free country but it is a worrying trend if someone has an opinion that others disagree with then they feel they must silence that view.As Tony said a large majority in this country are very worried about the levels of immigration that this Government has permitted. This is a fact of many opinion polls and in the media. Many feel that this Government is not listening to their concerns.To try and shout someone down for speaking of their fears will not help the discussion. If someone speaks out they are accused of being racist, yet people of all races have the same worries and concerns for the future.The Government should have had in place some sort of points system which they failed to do and their attempts at border control is rather like 'shutting the gate after the horse has bolted'.Ignore the worries of others if you will but this country I fear is storing up problems for the future as if we haven't got enough of them already.It's really no point of entering a debate on the subject because it's just not getting anywhere when all concerned are sure that only their opinion matters and name calling is often the result.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6392d

Re  Many feel that this Government is not listening to their concerns.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        they make out they are but in reality they are not. Questions arise therefore. Why do they continue to allow immigration at a high level ( it has not tailed off )when they know the populace does not want it,including the ethnics already here. What is the Govt's purpose?. UK the largest country in the EU?. The papers are today reporting water must be rationed as there is not enough to go round, so why import multi millions more, thus exacerbating the problem. And schools and hospitals can't cope now. All the Govt. has to do is cut off all welfare bens to immigrants, no medicare except for accidents here, and preferential treatment in all respects to indigenous people. All asylum seekers not approved  by now, out with no appeal. If any of this contravenes " INTERNATIONAL " rules, get out of them.

Tony Price ● 6392d