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On the point of "middle class":middle class does not equate to middle income. Yes, Ealing is surrounded by middle class folk. In places called Surrey, Western Berkshire, Western Oxfordshire, etc. But in Ealing sadly, no?This was my point about housing. When Ealing developed in the 1840s  onwards there were very few flats. Houses were occupied by one family whether rented or owned. Look at the old houses just north of Haven Green. Big houses for the middle classes and small houses for the artisans. The width of roads is another indicator - what's the minimum turning circle for a hansom cab?Later development brought in houses which were larger than artisans cottages but smaller than middle class.Unfortunately, many of the later developments, together with the big houses have become flats. If rented then a lot of furnishings are ready supplied, so what will occupants buy? Food,clothes, services, what else?If owner-occupation they might well bring furniture with them from a previous flat or buy new, but furniture isn't bought that regularly.Remember state benefits are much lower than perceived middle-class incomes and much middle-class spending is powered by credit. And look at the **** the global economy is in for spending the next 10 years not yet earned income today.Although moans are made about the lack of shops in Ealing Broadway there are very few, if any, compliments about the fantastic variety of licensed premises that have replaced many of them. When I was a young man there were only about 10 pubs in EB...

Alan Brainsby ● 6387d

Answering several points.  I believe the Edwardian houses are in such a state of disrepair because of the threat of various schemes over the years regarding the widening of the road - one of them would have involved demolishing several houses at the end of my road  so they were rented out or left empty and left to decay.  These works have now started and involve widening the road before and over the railway bridge and this road will not be affected.  Just when we thought we could breathe a sigh of relief the Property Developer came up with his scheme.  On one side of the road the end house is already being refurbished as it is, I think by a Housing Association. They are buying up properties all over the area.  The Residents Association  here want the other houses also to be saved and refurbished as flats.  Not many people at the meeting (some are absolutely dedicated though) only those I assume who own and live in the properties themselves.  So many of them are now rented out as small units and too many are sadly in decline.  I have made all the objections I can.Regarding Alan Brainsby’s note.  It was not too busy at Strand on the Green yesterday, a variety of nice people just enjoying the view and the peace and quiet.  I must be older than I realised because I do still remember all the BEFORES.  I particularly object to feeling under surveillance whenever I’m in a shop.  I tackled one security guard in Boots as to why he was constantly watching me and I told him he should know his market and leave me alone.Talking about procreation, did you see The Hospital about teenage mothers!?    I don’t just need to move out of Ealing I need to get to a different planet. 

Lesley Thomas ● 6376d

Reading this thread is quite bizaare and the views expressed by some seem to indicate their daily lives are a living hell!  Face up to it - this is London and if you don't like other cultures then you'll never like it here.  Compared to many areas of London, Ealing is a good place to live. Fantastic parks, superb transport links (including road), loads of good small shops in Northfields, Pitshanger, West Ealing and Hanwell.  Those who say they aren't, evidently don't look or shop there.  Try living in a country town where you have a Tesco, a few high street chain shops and that's it.  Bet you'd be complaining then too.  Agreed, Ealing Broadway is a mess and went downhill from the time the council agreed to the England's first 'super pubs' which marked the start of Ealing being a 'destination' for people (young in particular) to come drinking outside of their home areas.  Restaurant owners and others over the years tired of hundreds of people milling around at chucking out time and left the area.  Anyone over 30 started avoiding Ealing Broadway in the evening and then started avoiding it in the day time too and the downfall overall has continued ever since.  The Council, instead of getting a concerted plan together on Ealing Broadway, has wrung its hands and allowed developers to take their place with their pathetic attempts to show how they can 'rejuvinate' the area by building tower blocks and cramming thousands more people into an already crowded area. Farcical.So we need to support all those businesses and traders who work hard to give us individual places to shop and eat. We need to vote in councillors who promise to take direct action on Ealing Broadway.We don't need to blame the local population for Ealing's ills!

Jerry Pattison ● 6373d

Many thanks Damaris for a very constructive post.  To suggest that immigration is responsible for the departure of shops from Ealing broadway is ludicrous.  What Tony P and other posters on this forum need to do is travel back in time, not move.Didn't Tony P express a wish to turn the clock back 35 years?  To 1974?  I don't remember Ealing that far back but can vividly recall British Leyland cars falling to bits as they were drive out of the showrooms.  And the lousy "discovery" methods which my all-white British boys' grammar school used - and which set back my ambition to become an accountant 30 years (I qualified in 2007 at the grand old age of 47 after three years of study at a college with a class largely composed of very clever Asian females).  And I recall the 3-days week.  Oh and what was the most popular sitcom of that year?  You've guessed it, LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR.  I actually bought the DVD of that series because my black American wife wouldn't believe that it's a true repfesentation of how children of our Empire were treated back then.  I also recall Harrow having a largely white British population in 1974 but having only one shop - Debenhams.  Its ethnic minority population has shot up since then, but it now has better shops than ever, and most under cover.  Today the Harrow shopper wants for nothing.  The same is true of very culturally-diverse Hounslow which has the Treaty and Blenheim centres.High Wycombe, Watford and Slough are outside London but might as well be London boroughs given their demographic profiles.  Last year, High Wycombe's Westfield - the Eden Centre - opened.  Watford has the Harlequin.  Slough is well served by the Queensmere and Observatory shoping centres. Westfield is situated very close to some pretty demographiclaly challeneged areas e.g. the White City Estate).And by the way Tony, if you are thinking of emigrating, don't expect your white Britishness to cut much ice with the Australian or New Zealand immigration departments.  They have well and truly cut their ties to "Mother England"

David Lawes ● 6372d

Harrow had a very good model shop from the late 1940s to 2004ish. I don't remember Debenham(')s though.To mix up racism and immigration is very easily done and very incorrect. It's the same as mixing up intelligence and education or race and nationality...Of course immigration has an effect on shops, in at least two ways.One: changed demand for good and services. This would apply if the incomers add to or replace the people already present.Two: reduced demand of existing shops due to replacement of the existing local population.In the 1960s, Ealing area had a population of around 280 000. If recent figures are accurate then the population is now 315 000. This means the population of the area has increased by 20 000, about 12%. It is also suggested that 40% of the Borough is not of the ethnic majority. 40% of 315 000 is  126 000.The population has grown 315 000 - 280 000 = 35 000.Now assume all the growth in population is due to non-ethnic majority input - 35 000.The non-ethnic majority population is 126 000 of which only 35 000 are additional.Therefore 126 000 - 35 000 = 91 000 must be replacements for the ethnic majority. 91 000 represents about 1/3rd of the 1960s population. From that we can deduce that the ethnic majority is now only 2/3rd of what it was. Now if we are to believe, as some posters suggest, that Ealing's ethnic majority is  middle-class then a fall of 33% is significant, sufficient to close a lot of shops.Harrow's busy because the shops there suit the local population, - middle class ethnic majority and sub-continentals or may be it's because the Underground and bus station are alongside the shopping centre. If immigration doesn't change the mix of shops then why are there so many Polish shops? Or international-call phone shops?

Alan Brainsby ● 6372d

I owe Tony Price (and others who have commented on my previous post) an apology for the factual inaccuracies in what I previously said about Harrow in 1974.  Of course it had more than just Debenhams, but its retail offer was frankly very poor until the St Ann's Centre was opened in 1987 and the St George's in 1996.  In 1974, any Harrow resident wanting to buy goods from HMV, WH Smith, M and S, BHS and quite a few others had to go to Watford or the West End.  Today they don't ; Harrow has all of these and more.  I made the mistake of expecting not to be taken literally - very naive on my part.The point also needs to be made that, whilst Harrow's population was largely white British in 1974, the Ugandan Asians were ariving in significant numbers even then, and the borough's ethnic population grew in leaps and bounds over the subsequent two decades.  But far from going down-market, its shops improved dramatically and the town centre is due to get a new library.  Though not perfect (it does have its share of £1 shops) it is thriving. My post was not an anti-white post ; it was an anti-nostalgia post.  As a white British person I have been in a minority in Kenton since moving there in 1989 but it bothers me not one iota.  But the thought of turning the clock back 35 years frightens the hell out of me.  Imagine going back to 25% inflation, getting electricity on only 3 working days a week, constant industrial strife, "discovery" methods of learning in secondary schools, "Quartic" steering wheels, the back window of your car popping out when you jacked it up to change a wheel.  Tony, you really need to look at these things in the round.  Now in 2009 we may be in a credit crunch but we ae in a deflationary rather than inflationary situation.  The quality of learning on our schools is leagues better than in the '70s.  And although we get the odd strike on the tube, industrial strife is far less common than 35 years ago.  We communicate via email as on this forum, in 1974 that was too advanced even for STARSHIP ENTERPRISE.  And my 2006-vintage car starts first time every time, has airbags, alloy wheels and a CD player and a nice round steering wheel (OK, so it does have a Daihatsu badge on it).  I have lived for almost 5 decades on this earth - '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s and 2000s and the one I would least like to go back to is the '70s, without question.  It was an era of backward attitudes, false dawns and missed opportunities.  Time to de-invent the Tardis and move forward.

David Lawes ● 6369d