Forum Topic

Over 60-s lose out as free bus passes are cut back

Report in the papers today:The free bus pass has turned out to be rather expensive.This week the popular benefit enjoyed by 11million is being scaled back because it is costing too much.Free travel on all local busses and coaches for all over 60's was launched by the Government last year to a rapturous wlcome.But from Wednesday bus passes issued to the elderly and disabled will no longer be valid on hundreds of services in England.Passholders will once again have to pay on coaches, park-and-ride busses, open-top bus tours and any services intended 'primarily for tourism'.Since last April, the Government has spent more than 1billion funding the passes.But there is still a shortfall in many areas and dozens of local authorities have had to increase council tax or cut services to reimburse bus companies.From April1, passes will not be accepted for any service on which more than half the seats can be booked.Campaigners fear bus companies will reclassify more services to make pensioners pay.David Sinclar, of Help the Aged said: 'We are extremely concerned that what was supposed to be a national scheme may be being whittled away.'A Department of Treansport spokesman said the bus pass was intended for use on local services, not longer routes.So once again it yet another kick in the teeth for pensioners!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6393d33 Comments

Why can't the UK offer a system anything like as good as Eire.  As I understand it pensioners in Ireland can travel the length and breadth of Ireland for free and (I'm not sure if this is true)a companion travelling with a pensioner also travels free.  They also get free telephones, electricity etc., etc., and rates where done away with years ago.  Hoorah for the Irish even though their economy is in a worse state than ours.

Bernie Paul ● 6393d

Do you think it's affordable more because the Ireland is still a 'young' country? We have an ageing population...that must make a difference?

Penny Crocker ● 6393d

Dunno the answer to that one although I would accept it was certainly a country with a total population smaller than that of London - maybe that's the answer.  However, Ireland just like the UK is now overrun with economic migrants, boat people, assorted assylum seekers the country is frankly ruined because of this and their economy is,as I said, in a worse state than the UK but up until now they have appreciated and taken care of their elderly, whether they can continue doing so or not remains to be seen.

Bernie Paul ● 6393d

Never mind comparisons with Ireland. What about Scotland where residential care is not means tested?

Graham Weeks ● 6393d

Probably coz we pay for it  !

Penny Crocker ● 6393d

"So once again it yet another kick in the teeth for pensioners!"Hardly!  It was always meant to be for local bus services, so that pensioners could travel in their local area, but the rules were drafted too liberally.

Richard Jennings ● 6393d

Bernie, do a lot of Irish pensioners who have worked in the UK tend to go back when they retire to take advantage of the government's provision for them?

Penny Crocker ● 6393d

I think the only pensioners in this country who are guaranteed a good standard of living are those in Government service or Bankers!!!I have heard about the fantastic benefits pensioners receive in Ireland and I believe that in this country pensioners are worse off than in the rest of Europe.I wonder just how long the MP's would survive on an ordinary pension.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6392d

As someone rapidly approaching my 60th birthday I believe we need to be level headed about benefits such as the free travel concession.Remember that highly paid City executives, bankers and lawyers can all now travel free to work if they are over 60.Other workers who could be on low incomes had to pay substantial increases in fares. Indeed, it is suggested that there will be a fall in paying passengers this coming year in London become of our economic problems, leading to another big fare increase next year.London's fare subsidy for buses, tubes and trains is similar to the free residential care experienced in Scotland. Nowhere else in the UK gets this benefit. It may be deemed something to protect. However, in public spending terms it is at the expense of something else. For example, the money spent on tube and rail subsidy could be spent instead on cancer drugs for London residents.I have no hard and fast views about what our first priority should be. However, let's be clear that any money we spend on free services can only be spent once, and it is always at the expense of something else.

Kevin Hone ● 6392d

Sounds like another kick in the gums for pensioners...;-)

Keith Iddon ● 6392d

Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that except that most of the children I went to school with were of Irish descent and most of their parents did return to Ireland.  You don't hear as many Irish accents in London these days as you used to in the 60s, 70s and 80s.  What I am also unsure about is whether you have to actually be Irish to benefit from the enhanced benefits paid there.  I don't know whether for instance I would benefit if I went to live there. Lets face it in the UK eveyone who arrives here is able to collect the benefits available whether they have contributed to them or not and I suspect that that contributes to the fact that resources have to be spread so thinly.

Bernie Paul ● 6392d

The original scheme was that you could only travel on the buss pass after 0930 - hence the growth of the twirlies - I understood teh liberalisation was to remove that restriction which is generous, allowing those who don't pay to travel in the rush hour. Was it really intended that the over-60s would thus qualify for tourist and long-distance buses? Surely not. This just seems to be a fairly sensible tidying up proposal - not a kick in the teeth for anyone.

Sara Nathan ● 6392d

Having recently turned 60, I did make use of my pass in London and found it encouraged me to leave the car at home, resulting in a reduced carbon footprint. In this CO paranoid age that we live in, should that not also be taken into consideration.I think it was a mistake to remove the time restrictions and feel that should be reinstated but the 'park and ride' should remain free for pass holders.Long distance coach travel should never have been free but could have been subsidised.

Peter Wright ● 6392d

The way things are going I wouldn't be at all surprised if this Government decides to cancel the Freedom Pass for all pensioners! If this does happen then those who have cars would be using them at every opportunity and I thought the idea was to persuade more people to leave their cars at home!For pensioners on a low income this concession is really important. Living in London is very difficult for the ordinary pensioner, 1 bus ride = £2 so if a couple of pensioners just wish to travel to their local High Street and back home this would cost something like £8 per trip.Not all pensioners are able to walk to their local High Street and back, let alone carry bags of shopping. It is particularly difficult for disabled pensioners to get around and for them the Freedom Pass has been a step in the right direction.There are many ways in which this Government (or indeed any other Government) could save money. There is such a lot of waste at almost every level. Why make the pensioners suffer more hardship?I agree that the Freedom Pass could be scaled down and not permitted on coaches, tourist busses and so on. In fact I was not aware that they could be used on these forms of transport, but they should still be available for day to day travel around the capital.Not all pensioners are super rich as some of the forum members might realise when they become a pensioner themselves.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6392d

It would be a brave governmant/ administartion that would cancel the freedom pass - given that the proportion of the electorate who are a) over 60 and b) politically active and c) prone to complain vociferously overlaps to a huge degree it would be a sure route to electoral disaster

Sara Nathan ● 6392d

..especially as young people generally can't be bothered to vote !

Penny Crocker ● 6392d

AFAIK coach travel has never been free but local travel is free nationwide.

Graham Weeks ● 6392d

That's what I thought too but the BBC reports say something else."Some coach services, including National Express routes, were included in the schemes by local authorities, which meant pensioners could hop on buses and coaches." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7969839.stmThough the Underground is just for Londoners.

Peter Wright ● 6392d

Just had a look on Wiki - 16% of English and 11% of Irish are over 65 years of age.The "Freedom Pass" fiasco is yet another example of incompetence of those responsible for drawing up the rules almost allowing for their deliberate misinterpretation.Personally I do not think that is true, it is sheer incompetence.There is a similar fiasco in London's transport where certain trains cannot be used although a complete journey can be made within the Freedom pass area - reasonable if it is a long distance train stopping in the suburbs to enable passengers to board or alight in view of transport connections/interchange.Having said that I don't remember the South Wales Pullman stopping at EB, or the Blue Pullman, Bristolian, Capitals Express, Cornish Riviera...

Alan Brainsby ● 6391d

"There is a similar fiasco in London's transport where certain trains cannot be used although a complete journey can be made within the Freedom pass area"Do you have any examples of such a journey?  The only one that I'm aware of is Heathrow Express/Connect, and that's because the line into the airport is BAA's private railway.  Some companies like Virgin are excluded because they don't stop at any stations in zones 1-6 apart from the terminus.

Richard Jennings ● 6391d

The Bendy Bus - also known as the 'Free Bus' is one of the reasons why London Transport is losing so much revenue.Quite a large number of passengers don't even bother to swipe their pass when boarding this bus. The only way they are caught is when inspectors board the bus, close the exit doors and check whether or not passengers have actually paid.It must be difficult for the driver to ensure that thye passengers actually put their oyster cards on the scanner.One bus driver mentioned that they are not being given overtime now, instead more drivers are being employed 'to reduce the unemployment figures' (his words). Difficult when he has a mortgage and children.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6391d

Richard:  I was thinking of Watford Junction, not Watford (Met), ie the section between Harrow and Wealdstone and Watford Junction which is served by Southern, London Midland, and London Overground. London Overground is the only one that the Freedom Pass is valid on.One can board a Southern train at White City, travel to Harrow and Wealdstone, alight and wait for a following LO train to Watford Jcn, else risk a penalty.

Alan Brainsby ● 6390d

Ah, yes, I see what you mean. You said "Freedom Pass area" which I took to mean Zones 1-6, i.e. Greater London, but there are of course some specific extensions outside the normal area.  I think it's reasonable to have extensions on particular services, but I agree that the different treatment of Southern and LO is silly.

Richard Jennings ● 6390d

While on the subject of anomalies I think that some National Express services got included outside London because they acted as the local service in the absence of any other bus company.

Alan Brainsby ● 6390d

Post script to Watford Jcn (that's the GWR abbreviation isn't it?).Before London Overground to Watford Jcn the only free routes were the Metropolitan line, or buses!

Alan Brainsby ● 6390d

Re  Hoorah for the Irish even though their economy is in a worse state than ours.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        Like a few more countries ( Italy, Germany and France ) Eire gives benefits which are not funded and which lay them open to bankruptcy or something approaching it. So my view is it is better to provide something, eg travel on local services, which presumably does not put the whole scheme at risk?. The financial situation in Eire is dire indeed.

Tony Price ● 6390d

Re  What about Scotland where residential care is not means tested?        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        but who pays for it, probably we in England, not as though I agree with homes having to be sold so as to pay for care in England, when we have absurd situations whereby those to whom this country owes nothing, have everything paid for them, such as the case in Acton ( £12484 per MONTH in rent alone !! ) and which is officially acknowledged as not being an isolated case.

Tony Price ● 6390d

Re  It must be difficult for the driver to ensure that thye passengers actually put their oyster cards on the scanner.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      on a bendy bus Jean, it is impossible. Those who get on the doors other than the front one, very rarely pay or attempt to do so. Boris knows this and pres. is why he wants to get rid of them. I wrote with chapter and verse to Ken. L. but who was quite adamant everyone paid ( maybe because what I related in great detail occurred in Wembley /  Brent ) but get on one at Shepherds Bush to Ealing proper and see what I mean, or in the other direction.

Tony Price ● 6390d

I wrote to Boris a while ago to mention some of the problems with the bendy bus or should I say the 'free bus'but I guess he is fully aware of the facts!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6390d

There is no need to "touch-in" on a bendy-bus with a Freedom Pass as I interpret the rules. Only pay as you go ticket-holders have to according to the signs.

Alan Brainsby ● 6390d

The No.38 in Stoke Newington is probably the most free bus on the planet, which is why Boris as decided to scrap this one first.

George Knox ● 6390d

RE  I wrote to Boris a while ago to mention some of the problems with the bendy bus or should I say the 'free bus'but I guess he is fully aware of the facts!             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      and I assume he did not deny them, as K L did to me. He was quite adamant everyone paid, despite the drivers themselves saying otherwise.

Tony Price ● 6390d

There were revenue protection officers and police at the eastbound bus stop one day last week.As usual it was easy to identify the offenders even if the RPOs and police hadn't been wearing uniforms.

Alan Brainsby ● 6390d