Forum Topic

More of our police state

Coming home thirsty on a warm afternoon I bought a can of beer and was slaking my thirst walking down my home street when I was stopped by a CPS and told I was breaking the law. Some yobs booze hear the shops so the whole of Perivale is declared dry. I read the local paper and even notices on lamp posts but this restriction on my liberty was news to me.  At least the officer was reasonable. She told me to put the can in my pocket and took down my details. But how and when was this oppressive restriction communicated to people?

Graham Weeks ● 6389d38 Comments

Oh dear,whatever next,it gets worse doesn't it? Now that would have been a good thing to put on the headlines of Around Ealing,perhaps they did and we blinked.It's true that "ignorance of the law is no defence",but give us a blimmin chance. Not that I drink alcohol in the street you'll understand,but (cliche alert) I'd defend anyones right to do so if they're not making a nuisance of themselves. If they are then the existing laws are adequate to deal with it.There's not much on the web about it in Ealing,what there is doesn't load.Hounslow do much better,if you have an hour or three to spare...http://www.mpa.gov.uk/downloads/partnerships/cdrp/hounslow-streetdrinking.pdf

Tony Wood ● 6388d

you see notices in local press announcing these "dry" zones, I remember seeing one for central Ealing a while back which did get headlines, but the only way they can really make sure you know is to send you a letter or doordrop. They shouldn't rely on you buying/receiving a paper and reading the right page.

Darren Barber ● 6388d

Graham, I am totally against people drinking and eating on the street or on public transport. It's just bad manners. Why not go into a bar or cafe and have a quick drink if you are thirsty and far from home. Why would anyone want to slurp beer walking along a pavement and especially in your case on your "home street"? Couldn't you wait five more minutes? People appear to be constantly "grazing" to the extent that even shops have to put up notices saying "no food or drink". And there is nothing worse than sitting on the tube with someone opposite slurping coke or munching their way through a MackyD.  Gross.

S. D. Brock ● 6388d

I'm amazed that there was a Community Support Officer there at all, and surprised that you weren't offered counselling! Perhaps Controlled Drinking Zones (CDZs) where drinking (of alcohol) is not allowed should be cross-hatched as box-junctions are.It won't be long before drinking is only permitted on licensed ground and then shielded from the public (and Google) gaze. hanks to Tony W's reference to Hounslow's website I quote the following:For the purpose of this report a street drinker is defined as a person who drinks heavily inpublic places and appears in the short term, unable or unwilling to stop or control theirdrinking. Research tells us street drinkers have a long history of alcohol misuse. And oftendrink in groups for companionship.Research by the Mental Health Foundation tells us that the average street drinker is likely tobe a white unemployed man aged 35 or older in insecure housing, alcohol dependant, oftendrunk, and who may also be using drugs and suffering from psychiatric disorders of varyingdegrees of severity; often in a poor state of physical health; at risk of arrest for publicdrunkenness offences, shoplifting, begging and other minor public order offences, and at riskof being the victim of assault.Despite their obvious vulnerabilities, their activities and even just their presence can causereal fear among the population, and can adversely affect the quality of life for other residentsand users of the streets and parks, causing noise litter and general nuisance. This can be anobstacle to economic regeneration in Town Centres.

Alan Brainsby ● 6388d

Cripes!!! It's even worse in Bromley,Here is the contact number for our Crime Prevention officer: PC Mick Lane Crime Prevention Design Advisor 020 8284 8889 The contact address for all of our Crime Prevention Design Advisor is: Bromley Police StationHigh StreetBromleyKentBR1 1EREaling needs a Design Rosser,mind you I'm not sure my flared hipsters would get past a distant scrutiny.

Tony Wood ● 6388d

Rozzer it's Rozzer!It's a year or two since I used that word.

Tony Wood ● 6388d

Why should I go in a cafe (there are no bars) and pay extra? Yes I could have waited but why should I? Grew up on fish and chips out of newspaper after an evening at the cinema.  I am for liberty.

Graham Weeks ● 6388d

I assume a ban on public eating and drinking would include those females pushing roadsweeper bin-sized pushchairs who seem always to stop at the narrowest place on a footpath, by a lamppost or tree, to swig water from a plastic bottle.

Alan Brainsby ● 6388d

Graham,I wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination say that banning street drinking is a sign of a police state. Quite the reverse. It is a sign of the local authority listening to what the public in general actually want to see,or not, on their streets.I would dislike seeing anyone,even you, drinking alcohol on the street. There are other beverages you could have chosen.Surely you can wait until you get home for a beer.I don't see the problem with eating on the street as that could not in any way lead to anti-social behaviour and it also sends a non threatening message.

Keith Iddon ● 6388d

So a beer is out but soft drinking is OK? That is the kind of judgement I would expect from a country with a prohibitionist history not one where drinking was in the main responsible and socially integrated. From what I was told this ban extends to parks too so no beer with your picnic unless you follow the example of the Canadians who hide it in paper bags in their national parks.

Graham Weeks ● 6388d

Graham,Why would a soft drink not be ok?Most people,I would wager, do not want to see alcohol being consumed on the streets.Or do you think majority opinion should be ignored?

Keith Iddon ● 6388d

I think it should be ok for people to have a beer or a glass of wine with a picnic in the park, as long as they clear up afterwards. Most don't seem to bother. A fair number of people who eat and drink outside, whether on the street or in the parks, seem to chuck their beer/soft drink cans and bottles and food containers anywhere, often into somebody's garden.  Had a walk by the canal in the Bunny Park recently and a flat area by the banks was littered with at least a couple of dozen beer cans.

S. D. Brock ● 6388d

The operative word is "opininion" - not based on science but perceived certainty.If the majority opinion were take into account in this country the population would fall by one third. This probably why we've never has a referendum on the matter to actually quantify it.CDZs were introduced primarily to prevent individuals or groups from standing or sitting in those areas. Walking through is a different matter, unless one walks in circles.Regardless of what is drunk there is the problem of empty container disposal.In my opinion(!) there seem to be more waste bins in CDZs than elsewhere.

Alan Brainsby ● 6388d

Perhaps if people were fined on the spot for droppng litter then this would warn others that dropping litter can be a costly affair.Sadly I don't think that many people are actually fined for dropping litter.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6388d

I do wonder how the beer cans get in our front garden. They are not mine.

Graham Weeks ● 6388d

There is a BP Petrol Station at the end of our street who were given permission to extend their hours for selling alcohol despite the fact that neighbours were against the idea.I guess this has partly contributed to the fact that beer cans are sometimes thrown over garden fences in our street. In fact one can was thrown my recycling bag for garden rubbish which was then not emptied I had to contact the council and explain that I did not put the can in the wrong bag!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6388d

Has anyone ever been fined for littering, or spitting for that matter, in the borough?

Alan Brainsby ● 6388d

I remember at least one in my 8 years on the council.

Graham Weeks ● 6388d

At least one? Are you sure? I don't remember it making local, let alone national, headlines! Surely such a heinous crime and following detection apprehension and penalty, in itself amazing, would have attracted mass media interest?If I might ask: how did the event you mention come to your attention? Was it a local dignitary and so had to be hushed up?

Alan Brainsby ● 6388d

I think it was 92/93 when I was chairman of Environment so it was on my watch. It was in the paper locally.

Graham Weeks ● 6387d

Graham, thank you for the info.The next time I'm at the Newspaper Library in Colindale I'll look it up!

Alan Brainsby ● 6387d

Alan,'The operative word is opininion(!)...Well if what you say about a third of the population is true,here's to public opinion.

Keith Iddon ● 6387d

Re  to swig water from a plastic bottle.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    oh that's different Alan, trendy middle-class modernity, probably engaged in by many on this Forum.

Tony Price ● 6387d

Thanks Keith. Don't know how I got opininion out, must have been a bit trigger-happy at that moment. :)I must admit that a referendum merely quantifies opinion (almost got it wrong again!) but does eliminate the "you're in the minority/majority" variable.In Switzerland citizens can force a referendum. We should get the law changed here so we can do the same; preferably before we have to have a Cromwellian solution.

Alan Brainsby ● 6387d

Re  Canadians who hide it in paper bags in their national parks.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I should jolly well think so, whatever next, not letting standards slip. Keep, up appearances and all that.

Tony Price ● 6387d

Re  Or do you think majority opinion should be ignored?            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  on the question of immigration and all that flows therefrom, many vociferous ( or do I mean viciferous? ) ones on this Forum do, 'cos dem's all for it.

Tony Price ● 6387d

Re  Sadly I don't think that many people are actually fined for dropping litter.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      police probably too frightened of being called  racists

Tony Price ● 6387d

Funny you should say that.I was on Acton High Street on Wednesday and there were several instances of litter dropping by the tinted population. I saw no evidence of littering by our indigenous population but then I didn't see any indigs either! And the only visible police were in cars or vans.Now if littering were an offence punishable by deportation...

Alan Brainsby ● 6387d

Re  Now if littering were an offence punishable by deportation...          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      unemployment and housing shortage solved overnight

Tony Price ● 6387d

Re  Now if littering were an offence punishable by deportation...          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      unemployment and housing shortage solved overnight

Tony Price ● 6387d

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/technologynews/5105519/Internet-records-to-be-stored-for-a-year.htmlYou read it here second...I suppose when Royal Mail is partially privatized we might start receiving opened mail.

Alan Brainsby ● 6387d

The Swiss have a police state, well draconian laws, it works for them, doesn't it?

Peter Wright ● 6387d

The Swiss system works well because it instilled into their citizens and properly enforced.Its quite amazing to see people waiting for a pedestrian crossing light to go green even though there is no vehicular traffic.

Alan Brainsby ● 6387d

I leave the swiss to their beautiful but unfriendly country and continue to complain about our plod.My 20 something year old daughter is carefully travelling down the A40 on her motorcycle when she is stopped by the police. Seing her concern the officer reassured her she had done nothing wrong. He wanted to see her documents. Why? There was no cause for suspicion. Have we totally lost the common law presumption of innocence?

Graham Weeks ● 6385d

'Have we totally lost the common law presumption of innocence?'I believe we have. I am in the process of helping my son buy a house. As  major donor towards the purchase his solicitor says she has to have proof as to my identity. I cannot merely write him a cheque. I wrote to her as follows.'I will do it of course with regret that the presumption of innocence has disappeared form our legal system. Now we are all presumed to be money launderers, child molesters, drunken drivers etc until we prove our innocence. I shall remain a protesting but ultimately compliant subject.'

Graham Weeks ● 6384d

Those in authority make every attempt to hide their wrongdoings yet want to know everything about the rest of us!When I wanted to open another account at my bank where I have been banking for more years than I care to remember they required a valid passport (mine was out of date) or a driving licence (I don't drive!) so I had to go and get a new passport!When my friend gave her mother a few thousand pounds to help her buy her home she was asked where she got the money from! I think she felt like giving a really cheeky reply!The criminals in this world manage to get around all the red tape, rules and regulations, it's just the innocent who are having to put up with all this questioning!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6384d

Well I will have to tell them my wealth comes from drug dealing.

Graham Weeks ● 6384d

Re  it's just the innocent who are having to put up with all this questioning!            xxxxxxxxxxxxxx    Jean, probably helps the Authorities think they are doing something and letting us know into the bargain that they are in a demonstrative way. But to have to get a new passport just to open a Bank account beggars belief.

Tony Price ● 6383d