Forum Topic

Urban Foxes

It seems to me that the fox problem is getting worse and worse.  It's obviously bad at this time of year as this year's cubs are kicked out to make their own way in the world.  But things have been worse all summer, with foxes brazenly about in daylight.Two neighbours have reported foxes breaking into houses, even going upstairs and raiding wardrobes for leather shoes and bags.  No, these weren’t two-legged burglars trying to disguise their activities, these creatures leave a very distinctive mess.My wife has posted on the 5RF website a guide to what little we can do about this (see http://www.fiveroadsforum.org/UrbanFoxes.pdf), but it seems that government, Council, RSPC etc. are united in washing their hands of any consequences.  Isn’t it about time that the definition of vermin was rethought, or do we have to wait for a child in their own home to be attacked before anyone does anything?

Robin Hall ● 6220d54 Comments

Yes I agree. They are so brazen and noisy. We have a field behind us and they have a den there. I worry about my cats (as you all know ! ) and my neighbour's cat was attacked by a fox. As you say, it will be a child soon. I wouldn't want to be cruel to them but there must be a humane way of tackling it? Can't access your link...says 'page not available '

Penny Crocker ● 6220d

If you type the URL in, it works.  Sorry, somehow the redirection is failing.

Robin Hall ● 6220d

I watched a fox go into my neighbours house and steal a shoe.Does anyone know if shoe stealing is a problem at some places of worship?Just like Tufty and his mates, urban foxes really are a pest. They adapt quickly, but, from what I have read, rarely attack cats or children and are more likely to come off worse or simply run away.I've found a high powered water pistol is effective in discouraging pests from the garden but where locally can the chemical repellant be purchased?G

G Lord ● 6220d

In answer to your question about where chemical repellant can be purchased - I would imagine that large garden centres would stock it. I once bought a box of lion poo which allegedly deterred cats from entering gardens that weren't theirs as they believed that there was a much bigger cat living there. Unfortunately it didn't work!I would imagine the chemical would work better on foxes.But yes, you are correct, foxes are beginning to be a big problem. Now that fox hunting is discouraged or banned (am ot sure what the current status is) the fox population is on the increase and with their natural habitat dwindling due to the loss of hedgerows etc, they are moving further and further into towns and cities. It may mean that a cull has to be introduced to keep the numbers down.Cats are far more likely to win a fight with a fox too.

J Smith ● 6220d

Sorry but the local vet's cat was badly bitten by a fox - and he should know.  Also, we rescued our cat from being cornered by a fox.  I saw it with my own eyes.  Our cat was 18 years old, not in a position to defend itself.  Not all foxes attack but some do.

Barbara Yerolemou ● 6220d

I`d like to see the council looking at baiting with a fertility drug to reduce the numbers of cubs, assuming one is available, as they will eventually suffer greatly with unsustainable numbers crashing in a cold winter and their attitude will certainly change for the worse with desperation. I believe such a programme would gain wide acceptance and can think of worrying problems with other options. 

Robert Darke ● 6220d

Its the loud screams the make at night sounds like a cry for help,i have been out to see if someone was been attacked at 3 in the morning only to find Fox's fighting over a large roast chicken .the numbers in ealing have grown over the last few years . i have seen 2 fox's today .

Hugh jones ● 6220d

Where I used to live there was a fox who seemed to take great delight in barking outside the hosue. One night or should I say early morning in particular he barked outside every house in the street and just when you thought it was safe to go back to sleep he came round again!I believe there is something that can be used as either a sterilisation or contraceptive pill for animals - the animals were caught, tagged given the drug which lasted a while and then released - I am not sure which animal it is used on, but I remember watching a programme about it a few years ago. One solution to think about.Another one is to stop people from littering the streets and over filling bins with rubbish/food. Too much food is wasted and thrown away.

J Smith ● 6220d

It's not just food that is wasted it's the fact that some stupid people place their rubbish outside days before rubbish collection - i.e. my neighbours. I am constantly placing their rubbish bags back in their garden - don't ask me to speak to them, they are Somalian and cannot speak English very well plus their garden is an absolute disgrace too. No wonder foxes love urban spaces with the the tips people choose to live in.

Diane Gill ● 6220d

More anti-vulpine comment.Foxes have been part of the British countryside for probably as long as humans - since the last ice age, about 10 000 years.I suppose the anti-fox lobby won't be satisfied until 40% of the indigenous fox population has been replaced by French Poodles, German Shepherds, Mali Azawakhs, Polish Tatra Sheepdogs, and any more one could be bothered to mention.Foxes do serve a useful purpose in removing material which could be attractive to rats which are far more of a pest.

Alan Brainsby ● 6220d

We have foxes next door. They wee and poop. Used to rip my black sacks stored in my garden open making an awful mess. I bought a big green bin to store them in to reduce the chance of the bins being destroyed,before pick up. I know they are a pest, we should not feed them, the idea of giving them contraception is really good if it can be done.I have elderly cats that I worry about. BUT.. I would miss the fox if a major incentive to destroy it started. I often work late and they are the only company on the journey home. I admit, I am sad. I look out for them. Worst thing.. we covered the entrances to their den, burrow, what ever it is callednext door. We may have trapped cubs in it, dont know. Fox returned and spent at least 1hr running up and down the back alley to our run of houses screaming again and again and again, back and forth. It was awful.Wont do that again.

Roz Crosby ● 6219d

Foxes seem to be protected vermin in urban areas. IMO they are more of a nuisance than rats. We have both in Perivale but at least the rats are quiet. If we cannot use hounds, traps, guns or poison, how can they be controlled? They have no enemies. When I lived in the country I was against hunting. Now I realise it both preserved and controlled a reasonable number of foxes. The chickens though reckoned even one fox was too many. It would appear our council has no plans for fox control.

Graham Weeks ● 6219d

The foxes are coming into town more than ever now, is because we have built so many places in the country that they have been forced nearer to town. They live in the parks and near the railway embankments of which Ealing has many.

Mavis Walker ● 6219d

its not we have built to many places .the fox is a clever animal and they realize it easier to get mcDs and kfc.And good supply of bin bags for the choosing each night .So in such a lovely environment they will breed a lot more,cos they have no worries about food

Hugh jones ● 6219d

At least foxes are largish and unlikely to enter premises through cracks and broken air bricks.Aside from being bitten by a fox (nasty bacteria around their teeth) they don't transmit disease, rabies excepted. Rats will go anywhere they can get through and are vectors some really interesting diseases.Foxes may well be the best form of rat control in urban environments.

Alan Brainsby ● 6217d

One of the best forms I've seen lately to get rid of rats is Charlie the dog!Foxes will go anywhere as well, they are getting more and more daring as time goes by - they do not belong in the City, but in the country where numbers are controlled by forces of nature and time.

J Smith ● 6217d

I see that this subject has made the front page of Ealing Today.  I regret to advise that the link on the front page article leads only to a 404 error.

Robin Hall ● 6214d

I wonder if there were foxes in Ealing before the area was almost completely built up from the 1830s onwards?If so, they are only reclaiming their ancestral homelands and not quite the immigrants they are made out to be even though their civic responsibilities need improving.

Alan Brainsby ● 6214d

'I wonder if there were foxes in Ealing before the area was almost completely built up from the 1830s onwards?'I wonder if pre 1840 was there a local hunt? Bring it back after next May!

Graham Weeks ● 6214d

I have seen more foxes here than I do when I visit my sister who lives in the country surrounded by farmland. They are becoming a pest here as they are being driven out by farmers wanting more and more land.

J Smith ● 6214d

I hesitate to put this forward as a fully worked through thesis (mainly because we live only a couple of hundred yards away from Robin who started this thread) but it seems to me that the numbers of foxes have reduced since the council dished out the food recycling boxes.These have lids on them that the foxes cannot by and large get into.  it might be just coincidence, but I fancy I have seen their numbers fall away around our neck of the woods since the boxes started to be used.Certainly the foxes no longer tear open the black bags to anywhere near the same extent as they used to because they can tell that there is very little indeed of any use / interest to them in there anymore if the household is being diligent with its recycling.

Tony Colliver ● 6213d

Perhaps we would be overrrun by rabbits if there were fewer foxes.

Alan Brainsby ● 6213d

Who has ever seen an urban wild rabbit?

Graham Weeks ● 6213d

You can see wild rabbits (or perhaps escapees from the bunny park) along the canal towpath between the Uxbridge Road and Boston Manor.

Chris Bell ● 6213d

Having kept chickens, ducks and geese for many years (for eggs), I am always fascinated by the amount of people that come into my butchers shop to ask for scraps of meat for the local fox population in West Ealing.There's one dear old soul that will only buy chicken thighs for "her" foxes. When one day we'd run out, I offered her drumsticks instead and she refused them saying they really only liked the thighs!

Tony Luckhurst ● 6213d

Lots of bunnies along the River Brent golf clubs.

Alan Brainsby ● 6212d

Buying food for vermin? There's nowt so queer as folks. What does she buy for her rats?

Graham Weeks ● 6212d

"Who has ever seen an urban wild rabbit?"I have..........where? On Hounslow Golf course! Or Boston Park near to glaxo.........Fahsens of em having rumpty!

Tony Stavides ● 6209d

Sarah Felstead ● 6209d

purrrfect.......

Roz Crosby ● 6209d

Fascinating.  My take on this is that fox knows you are there.  He's watching you.  Your cat is going to you for safety - his/her ears are back and she is walking slowly.How did this photo come about Sarah?

Barbara Yerolemou ● 6208d

Perhaps the cat has done its deed - warning the fox not to lay a paw on it or else get badly scratched.Feline arrogance would then take over and the cat would move  as slowly as it dare to annoy the fox even more.Healthy adult cats are more than a match for a fox, unless the fox is very hungry; that's a good reason for feeding scraps to them.Peosnally I think those immigrant parakeets are a worse problem than foxes - very noisy and scare the pigeons!Send 'em back to where they came from I say! Back to the boroughs of Hounslow and Richmond.

Alan Brainsby ● 6207d

I dont mind the foxes but having seen one corner my cat, I am nervous for other moggies.  I love to see the wildlife in my garden, fox comes round regularly at night, my baby woodpigeons are getting their white patches and feeding on my pyracantha as are robins, tits, dunnocks etc.  The paraqueets will come when I put up my bird feeders when the really cold weather sets in.  They all give me a lot of pleasure.

Barbara Yerolemou ● 6207d

What about those annoying  squirrels?Keep digging up the bulbs and stealing the bird food

Mark Yates ● 6207d

Tufty never goes away - he's always there!!!!

J Smith ● 6207d

Whilst one cat may have a chance against one fox, we have seen instances in our garden of a pair of foxes attacking a cat.  It was only because cats can climb trees bettwr than foxes that there wasn't a fatality.

Robin Hall ● 6207d

Every night for the last week we have been woken between 2 and 3am by the foxes calling to each other.  It leaves our dog very upset as they are on 'his territory' but we can't let him out in case they attack him.  We can normally get him settled by 4am which leaves us all tired and grumpy the next day.  I'm a fan of wildlife and welcome most creatures to our garden but with the foxes I'll make an exception.  And don't get me started on the mess they leave . . . .Tired & Grumpy, Ealing Common

Julie Devine ● 6207d

Unless your dog is a particularly small or timid one I wouldn't have thought that a fox is likely to be too much of a challenge.I reckon even our 18 week old pup would see off any fox (he would never move fast enough to catch it though - which is probably for the best all in all).Like most animals I think escape is likely to be the thought uppermost in Reynard's mind rather than attack - unless cornered of course...

Tony Colliver ● 6207d

Certainly the outside world can be a treacherous place for moggies, what with feline HIV, other cats, dogs, traffic and the yoof of today looking for some airgun target practice. However cats are very, very unlikely to be the subject of a fox attack, unless the fox is trying to defend it's litter (March/April time), when it's hardly looking to kill for a feed. Naturally exceptions can always occur, however the (mainstream media-induced) hysteria surrounding their percieved danger to pets is ridiculous. People like Stephen Harris http://www.bio.bris.ac.uk/people/staff.cfm?key=52 have done lots of research into issues like this and in nearly all circumstances foxes will run a mile when challenged by a cat. Foxes benefit from nature's optical illusion, their deep coats make them look far bigger than they are. In reality foxes are likely to weigh less than a average cat and certainly don't have the lethal claws or agility possessed by cats. Cats on the other hand are fierce killing machines! I'm sure most cat owners would agree if they've ever seen them when in 'kill mode'! Does nobody remember the youtube clip of a cat chasing a bear up a tree? A few summers ago, my cats could regularly be found snuggled up in a wheelbarrow with a local fox and seemed to become daily playmates/sunbathing buddies. On a wider issue, I object to the term 'vermin'. Foxes are one of the last wild mammals indigenous to this country. We've so far managed to eradicate other such vermin - the wild boar, beaver and bear. Shouldn't we be thankful and proud that one of the UK's wild mammals has managed to adapt and survive despite our barbaric treatment and removal of habitat? From the sounds of it, no! Perhaps Tired & Grumpy might consider some dog training? Less bloodshed and more sleep in the end.

Philip Slater ● 6207d

Correction.We now again do have wild boar, and I am fairly certain I heard on the wireless that some beaver have recently been re-introduced.

George Knox ● 6207d

I too hate what the foxes do to litter, rubbish bins and the shrieking in the early hours.I'm not sure if anyone remembers, but a few years ago I made a post about Mr Heron getting my fish in my fish pond. Since then we tried several deterrants - plastic heron (encourages them), netting, ultrasonic deterrent, to no avail.Then we found a water "spitter" that detects motion in the garden and spits a jet of water in an arc at whatever triggered it - see one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WATER-PEST-REPELLER-ANIMAL-CHASER-PEST-CONTROL-650_W0QQitemZ330364252114QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_Garden_Plants_Weed_Pest_Control_CV?hash=item4ceb3e6fd2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14It is the best deterrent to both herons AND foxes in the garden. The only thing is, you need to remember to switch it off when you / guests are in the garden, otherwise, there are loads of opportunities for comedic dousings! It is a bit NIMBY, but seriously, they don't come into mine any more, and it doesn't harm a hair on their body!With regards to the council, I'd have thought that they might at least catch the really mangy foxes that are on their way down and out of this world, of which there are plenty in the winter. Maybe they could undertake a male sterilisation programme too (on the basis it is probably the simplest/cheapest way to do it), but I wonder if it would really reduce their numbers sufficiently?

Melissa Davies-Wright ● 6207d

Good for you Alan, I suggest that all the fox haters do not throw out their left-over food, crusts, fruit, veg in fact anything edible, but keep it outside the bags or bin so that the foxes can easily get at it. Then they will be happy and so will everybody else.God made foxes as well as humans for them to share the earth in harmony.

Dave Hughes ● 6205d

Beautiful, everybody is happy.

Dave Hughes ● 6205d

Thank goodness someone feels that foxes have a right to share the earth, man has destroyed the foxes natural habitat but complain when they move into ours.  They are only looking for food not a fight.  Most foxes will not attack a healthy adult cat, but would if starving go for a kitten or an elderly vulnerable cat. Cats should be kept in at night anyway.  If foxes are infected with mange they can become aggressive, but I believe there is a treatment that can be put in food if anyone cares enough about them.  My neighbours and I put out leftover food for the foxes and hence, no more upturned food recycling buckets or torn bin bags and no noise from them either.  We can co-exist quite happily it just takes a little thought and effort.

Carol Atkinson ● 6203d

http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=d5420d9db0&view=att&th=12423d2c8f9ac819&attid=0&disp=attd&zwIf the cats are clean the foxes don't care for them.Open the above link and enjoy.

Dave Hughes ● 6202d

My answer is a big NO on a cull , anything that should be culled are the yobs on the streets . Remember that animals were here before us humans , we are the ones to blame for the lack of their natural habitats , because of the greed of the human species. Therefore the people of Ealing , should be more careful of leaving doors open, etc ,after all it is inviting burglars in as well , or had you not thought of that !

Derek McNulty ● 6200d

WELL SAID - as I said in a previous message, all they are looking for is food for survival,I feed the foxes every evening and they are an absolute joy to watch, especially when their cubs appear.  I'm sure they have watches as they always come at the same time.  Even my cat isn't bothered about them, he has sat in the garden with them but they are actually wary of him not the other way round.  We share our space harmoniously and they have never caused any problems, probably too well fed to bother.

Carol Atkinson ● 6200d

Me too. Yay for foxes.

Dave Hughes ● 6200d

Well done Carol , for feeding the foxes , i live in the lovely devonshire countryside and don't see many foxes , only when being pursued by huntsman in the name of sport (?).

Derek McNulty ● 6200d

As an urban fox... I am, of course, totally against harming any foxes - it would be a pretty pointless exercise as their numbers are self regulating, so remain pretty stable whatever happens.We feed the foxes that come to our back garden. The main one is very distinctive, as she is blind in one eye. She trots up to our door and sits looking at us as we watch the TV, until we come out with a bit of leftover chicken (or whatever).She adores eggs. The first time we left one out for her, she wasn't sure what to do.After much repositioning, she finally got it in her mouth, but then had to get it home... Several delicate jumps later, she was on next door's back wall, reluctant to jump down into the alley at the back in case she broke it. So she jumped across the alley onto a fence, but it was also too high, so she jumped back, and the egg flew out of her mouth into their garden.The look of dismay and bewilderment on her face was hilarious. She couldn't go after it because next door has a little dog - so we gave her another egg, which she was even more careful with. While eggs are still the big prize, she is now very good at getting them home quickly and safely - her jump up onto our garden wall couldn't be done more softly.We had originally thought she was a he - last year she diligently brought food back to another vixen (who had two cubs). This year we discovered she had a cub of her own (but didn't have anyone to look after her - so when she reappeared after giving birth [and been missing for a few months] she was barely skin and bone).

David Fox ● 6195d

Is there evidence to suggest that foxes fertility drops as meals become less frequent or that they are self-regulating? Some years ago a computer programme demonstrated a ninety per cent drop in numbers during a hard winter so it would be in the interests of the fox to have a moderate but healthy urban population.I`ve heard of Ovarid for I believe cats and dogs and research in Australia where they have problems protecting their native species from those newly introduced.I liked Melissa`s suggestion of the water-spitter rather than the sonic noise option and I`ve been told the best way to stop digging under sheds, once started, is to sprinkle some used oil or creosote.

Robert Darke ● 6164d

Creosote!Isn't the use of that now an offence almost punishable by hanging or transportation?It does work though.

Alan Brainsby ● 6163d

I've only read bits and pieces of this thread, so apologies if I'm duplicating anything that's already been said. My points are ...(1) Foxes have occasionally been known to give cats trouble, but not very often. Sometimes it's the reverse. The domestic moggy is a superb fighting machine and, pound for pound, is far more powerful (and agile) than a fox. On at least two occasions I've noticed the latter give a wide berth to the former.(2) Don't take too much notice of the anti-fox prejudices of ex-Tory councillor Graham Weeks. Contrary to what he says, foxes are not as bad as rats (for the obvious reason that the latter are far more numerous and are much more likely to get inside people's homes).(3) When people like Graham Weeks argue that the fox population needs to be controlled, they omit to mention that organised hunts actually breed foxes for the purpose of hunting. (Why breed something if it's such a pest?).(4) In relation to my first point, I just want to say I'm not anti-cat, in fact they're my favourite animals. I just don't fall for the wholesale demonisation of foxes that the hunting fraternity (and their apologists) like to indulge in.

Robin Taylor ● 6158d

Foxes and rats are both vermin. Perhaps you would like to explain how someone who has changed his mind to an opposite view can be prejudiced. I am against the fox for the reason the lamb and the chicken are. Have you any evidence that foxes are bred for hunting? The hunters are the conservationists though. They want a fox population to pursue. They do not hunt primarily to control the fox. They enjoy the sport.

Graham Weeks ● 6158d