Forum Topic

Ealing Dean CPZ - Carew, bits of Elers / Lavington to go

hi!I see that Carew (where I live),Loveday, the rest of Lavington and the section of Elers between Culmington and Carew are going to become a CPZ from Jan 2010, yet the rest of Elers isn't and Kinsdowne even voted to not become a CPZ!I voted against it first time around on the basis I object to paying to park outside my own house - then we became Ealing's (and TVU's) unofficial car park, with unbelievably congested and silly/dangerous parking, so 2nd time around I needed no convincing.I feel VERY sorry for the rest of Elers, and am stunned Kingsdowne didn't learn the lessons from Carew....Any thoughts?

Melissa Smith ● 6164d16 Comments

When I moved to Ealing just over 18 months ago the roads around where I live - Dane Road etc were free to park. As a result congestion was a problem with people who decided to park with no disregard for residents. A few months after I had moved there a CPZ was introduced and the parking has got a lot better - no one double parks anymore and nine times out of ten I can park in the street where I live. When you weigh up the cost of a yearly permit it is peanuts compared to prices of car parks. I for one have no objections to the CPZ's.

J Smith ● 6164d

They will learn.By their nature CPZs will creep just as the displaced parking creeps, funny that.The sooner the whole borough is completely covered in separate CPZs the better.

Alan Brainsby ● 6163d

how do you know this Melissa? I live in one of these bits and nothing's come through my door. Did you go up to Perceval House and ask?The reason the rest of Elers don't want it is because they've all had their front gardens paved over, which is 1. a suburban cliche, 2.an eyesore and 3. causes all sorts of problems with the soakaway of rainwater. Oh well, their choice.. This is sheer Nimbyism. It just forces the problem a few hundred yards out each time, but we reluctantly had to vote for the CPZ because, without it, we can't exercise our democratic right to park our own car outside our own bloomin' house. If we go out in the middle of the day - to do a supermarket shop for example - we cant come home again till 7 pm. when we first moved in in '93 it was like the 1950s outside - one Ford Popular parked about 300 yards up towards Culmington. Now Elers is jammed with students', commuters' and holidaymakers' (yes, people park here for 2-3 weeks at a time then nip off to heathrow and beyond)and business travellers' cars, plus a bloody dumped Jeep with a permanent  puncture that i actually SAW a bloke push into place about a month ago. wish i'd challenged him then.

David Dix ● 6163d

David - I saw it on this web site first, see the link below:http://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=info&page=conparking003.htmNothing has come through my door yet either, I wonder how long it will take - probably a week after they paint the lines-anyway, January 2010 here we come!I (ahem, sorry) have a paved over drive, so at least I can park every day, but on occasion it has taken me the best part of 5 minutes to actually back out due to loony parking.I am so tired of it and also so tired of having become Victor Meldrew, haranguing people parking outside my house or my (sprightly yet somewhat elderly) neighbour's house. I have even caught myself lurking and waiting in the front window after 4pm to have a go...at least now I can rest in peace!Anyway, soon we will only need to complain about the speed people drive down the road!over and out!

Melissa Smith ● 6163d

It is all very well having “a democratic right” to park outside ones house and prevent others from using “your” road to park in but the trouble is that some of those “others” may also have legitimate reasons for parking in the area.I refer to the many employees and owners of shops and businesses who, like me, come to work in the early hours of the morning to provide a service to the community, which by default, is slowly but surely making it more and more difficult to carry out day to day operations.  Each time a CPZ is extended, there becomes less space available for business rate payers.  It may well be nimbyism that convinces residents to vote to be included in a zone but to exclude bona fide local business parking can only lead to further shop and business failures.The real problem with parking, apart from too many cars on the road, is the all day commuter using Ealing’s many stations in addition to the numerous students who choose to use their cars to come to Ealing.  The way that the council has opted to use one hammer to try to crack the one nut directly discriminates against business rate payers who should be entitled to worker parking permits in the same way as residents.

Brian Davis ● 6161d

Brian,I totally agree with you. The problem is all day commuters, not visitors to people's houses or the shops. I feel very sorry for local businesses. I cannot understand why the council won't issue business passes. I suppose it some convenient mantra that they want people to use public transport?I don't think these roads are "ours" exclusively, but we live on them so it becomes a daily problem on our doorsteps, we have children and elderly neighbours and the crazy parking right up to and onto junctions and back to back cars is really dangerous. The root cause to the problem is not residents voting for a CPZ because they've had enough of the silly parking, it is all day commuters clogging up the roads, and preventing local people with local needs from parking on them.The way to stop that is: 1) have a CPZ that has limited parking restrictions e.g. 1 hr in the morning that prevents commuters but allows visitors/shoppers and 2) Allow all users with genuine local needs to obtain a CPZ pass.I am sure 2) is easier said than done, but I'm happy to support anything that makes it happen.Melissa

Melissa Davies-Wright ● 6161d

Melissa,I think that Mr Davis is being a bit disingenuous.  He is mixing up a lot of issues.  What I think he really wants is unrestricted free parking for himself and his staff to commute but he sees other people's commuting as being a problem.  This is called having your cake and eating it.  As someone who has commuted into London on public transport for 20 years I am not sure I see the equity in giving one group parking privileges above other groups.  Why should someone commuting to a shop on Northfield Avenue say have different priority to someone wanting to park at Northfield station so that they can commute?  Mr Davis needs to tell us what he thinks about the mechanisms that are in place to allow businesses to operate.  For instance, we usually provide free Stop and Shop parking for customers of business in secondary shopping areas.  Are there enough of these?  Do they work?  I frequently use South Ealing Road and Northfield Avenue shops and find I can park easily when I need to.  Tradesmen can buy £1 an hour service vouchers to allow them to park in any CPZ.  Clearly these need to be charged for at a rate that discourages abuse.  The fee has not changed for four years.  Obviously tradesmen, etc can always ask their customers for visitors' vouchers when they visit a customer - I always have a stock in hand for both my personal visitors and people doing work for me.  Do these mechanisms work?  Where I have my business in Hammersmith I have to pay £2.40 an hour at a Pay and Display machine to park in a CPZ.  Finally, businesses can buy business parking permits.  These cost £250 which is less than £1 a day for every day a shop is open.  Hardly expensive I think.  This rate has not changed for four years.  Again, where I have my business in Hammersmith business permits are £751 for the first and £1,244 for the second and you cannot have any more after that.  Is Ealing's charge reasonable?  I suspect most people would agree that it is.  The council does not rush to put in CPZs for the simple reason that they are not popular unless there is real parking pressure.  They are expensive to put in and with the charges we levy they cost money to run.  If people consistently ask for them and consultation results come back positively we will put them in but recent consultations in the Northfield have largely rejected expansion of CPZs. 

Phil Taylor ● 6161d

Thank you for your common sense support Melissa but it seems I did not make myself clear enough for Phil Taylor to understand.It is not a case of wanting free and unrestricted parking for myself and my staff, it is about enabling trades people to go about their business in the community with a little help and understanding from those who make the rules. In my case, I do have my cake and sell it.Phil also knows what I think about the mechanisms that are in place as I have written to him before;(26/08/09).  The whole point of recent comments were set out in the last paragraph of that communication; viz:"My appeal for recognition of shop and business employees (and owners) and may well include others such as teachers and health professionals etc., as an integral part of the local community and be afforded the same consideration as residents, will be an important step in preserving the nature of local shopping areas and community."As for giving one group parking privileges above other groups, that is precisely what has happened.  Residents are given the opportunity to have parking permits which are denied to local workers.  Where is the equity in that?

Brian Davis ● 6161d

Mr Davis,I haven't seen your mail and obviously other readers of this thread won't have seen it either.  Do the parking measures we take to support local businesses work?  If not I would want to know.  Your request boils down to allowing shop staff space for commuter parking.  They do a great job but I don't think we should be giving up the public highway for commuter parking where space is short.  I would be interested to hear what others think. 

Phil Taylor ● 6160d

Phil / Brian,I think that workers in the local shops should be allowed to park in the vicinity, and £250 per annum seems very reasonable to me. Though it sounds like a large up front cost, it is good value compared with other places in London - Ealing NCP would cost nearly £600 pa and to park outside my work could cost me £4,000 pa (I use this as an example only, I realise comparing Northfield Ave with SE1 is an unfair comparison)!Gone are the days of plentiful / free parking and empty roads, and I hear what Phil is saying about the way the council is trying to reduce congestion, and I am sure that there will always be one group or another displeased with whatever solution is implemented.However, (beef time), I have tried to have an email dialogue with the council about 1. implementing speed bumps on Carew Rd and 2. Why traffic wardens never (seldom? I've never seen one) walk up and down non CPZ roads to ticket infringements of the Highway Code, and have got an officious and unhelpful response that wouldn't stand the plain English aspirations of our civil service, yet it informed me of the roads capex allocation process of Ealing, which was barely interesting, let alone answered my exam question!I have long considered CPZ implementations as a covert revenue generation exercise for the borough, but I'd be happy to disabused of this notion Phil!Long may a constructive and vigorous debate between neighbours and friends continue!

Melissa Smith ● 6160d

I think there is a great difference between residential/commuter parking and business/shopping parking.In the former vehicles are parked for many hours at a time, the latter for much shorter periods; perhaps a few seconds for a bus to 20 minutes for loading/unloading. This is well formulated in Northfield Avenue.Longer term parking for ALL on-street should be chargeable either by resident permit or by non-resident tickets which have a maximum duration of either morning or afternoon. In all cases parking should only be permitted in marked bays.Regarding parking: is Ealing exempt from pavement parking even where it isn't permitted?I ask this as there are always vehicles parked on both pavements along the western end of Drayton bridge Road, pavements that are used by scholars at Drayton Manor High School. Even with half or more of a vehicle parked on the pavement the road is still difficult for opposing traffic.Revenue raised from this section of road, in the form of fines, would be sufficient to fund a new CPZ or two.Incidentally, there was a blue bullion van parked on the pavement outside one of the banks opposite Dean Gardens this afternoon (Tue 17th Nov). Is this the solution to business parking?

Alan Brainsby ● 6159d

Judy Breens writes: The problem with Phil and Melissa's comment is that the business £250 permits are only for "Operational Vehicles". This means a business has to prove it needs the permit for use during the working day. (e.g. a delivery van) These permits are NOT for staff who work in the business. I know two business owners who were refused these permits although they needed to get to the bank, buy and bring back stock etc. Similarly, Phil's other suggestion: the 1 hr business permit. This is not for staff working on the business's own premises either.Kingsdown Residents' Association has made the following suggestion to Councillors. It could be one way of organising worker parking in the only available Northfields space (the kerbside) with minimum disruption to residents. As it would be "outside current Council policy" it could be seen as an experimental scheme in our area. If it worked well it could be a extended to other areas. In CPZs resident business's could be given, on a "need" basis CPZ permits for a limited number of essential staff at the same cost as residents. The Council is obliged by the Dept of Transport to encourage and facilitate business "green travel plans". Such CPZ staff permits could be linked to the production and effective implementation of an agreed business Green Travel Plan. Workers who start very early, mothers and others who have care duties needing reliable journeys and workers with long complex journeys are examples of those who could be granted a permit. To ensure a fair spread of vehicles, permits would need to be allocated to designated streets. A "free for all" would not work. If workers have to walk a bit, so be it. Better than having no parking. We think the permit cost should be the same as residents. Why not? If we residents get a good deal in Ealing (as Phil rightly indicates) why shouldn't it be the same for those who work for us? Workers in Northfield businesses are not paid like city bankers and neither are the business owners.

Arthur Breens ● 6159d

It's rather breathtaking to see that Councillor Taylor doesn't even understand the Council's CPZ policies - when he has Council Cabinet responsibility for parking. I do realise that it's not easy for mere mortals to comprehend Ealing Council's CPZ policies as the Council has as yet to produce a set of such written policies and place them in the public domain.Kingsdown Residents' Association and West Ealing Neighbours were promised a written CPZ policy over two years ago by the Council Leader, but this has never materialised.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6157d

No response here from Councillor Taylor. Maybe he is ill, away or busy with other issues.But we can all wait for his response.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6152d

I once heard that Councillor Taylor got lost when trying to find a place at one edge of the Borough called Northolt. Maybe he's done so again?!Or maybe he's going to join the growing list of defecters (and go back to the Liberal Party)???

John Simms ● 6152d

We know councillors support local businesses. Why? Because on the front page of the Walpole Contact Autumn 2009 (Keeping in touch with residents all year not just election time)is a photo of Cllrs Chapman and Cowing with three butchers. This is to promote the Conservative £50 cashback. When the boot is on the other foot...when traders need help to sort out problems when a CPZ closes in or envelopes their business then councillors like Phil Taylor start by labelling the baker as insincere and then  attempt to answer the problem by going silent. This sort of contempt for the public spoils all and every bit of the good work that has gone on in this ward. It is OK Phil to say you got it wrong and you are about to find a solution to worker parking in Northfield Ave that will preserve jobs and services.

Arthur Breens ● 6147d