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Faith’s situation is such a typical story which happens up and down the UK.However if one is brought up in the UK culture, then on such a life changing event, to me it is as certain as the sun rises, that I need immediately to go and get help, and in particular from an independent organisation which deals with Social Justice Law - often where advice is free as air. Because who on the planet trusts a state office anywhere to provide proper advice these days? Indeed they are not paid to give advice. They are just paid to process. In the case of new immigrants, it is palpably untrue that all get proper advice on how to claim benefits. Furthermore our systems are so complex that for a person who speaks very little English it is extremely difficult if not impossible, for them to claim benefits without some help. Even if they do get advice, often they later do some something which reduces or abolishes entitlement and many months later they can be faced with homelessness and serious debt. This in turn can put even more cost on the taxpayer.Pension Credit is a little more benign in its application because some backdating is allowed which means that late claims in some circumstances will be met, including Council tax or rent. As I have said before elsewhere for over 60s people, the state pays mortgage interest up to certain limits as well as most service charges for leaseholders, and again some backdating can be claimed. I cannot remember now, but mortgage interest rules in some way were relaxed for under sixties, possibly on a pro tem basis, to take account of the recession. So what I am saying is 1) get help instantly from the independents, and 2) forget the discrimination, and 3) consider that extremely belatedly the Government has listened to the Daily Mail and really tightened immigration rules. In the meantime we have an immigration legacy situation which is horrendously unfit for purpose.BBC news today highlights the powerlessness of marriage registrars to stop sham marriages, meaning one spouse can apply for settlement.

George Knox ● 6108d

Emma I have no idea what your circumstances are but no-one I have ever known that was in receipt of jobseekers benefit or whatever its called these days has lost the benefit after only 6 months.  A lady I worked with was made redundant on 1 December 08 having worked for the same firm for 34 years she was able to claim unemployment benefit, receives subsidised bus travel, council tax and mortgage are paid and have been since then which is now over a year.  I also believe the mortgage payments and council tax were backdated as she did not claim immediately because she was naturally unaware that she could.As far as the Afghan family and assorted foreigners are concerned, this country does appear to bend over backwards to give our hard earned money away as fast as possible but I'm not sure you can blame Gordon Brown for that.  It has always been the same since its inception.  Afghans are peculiar inasmuch as we do not return them whether they have a valid claim for asylum or not.  In other words once they are here we are stuck with them.  (think plane hijackers a few years back) If they are failed asylum seekers they are not actually legally allowed to work but we have to keep them.  However, housing them in a fancy expensive property really is an insult to the indigenous homeless and those on housing waiting lists etc.My third point is, that unless you are some kind of benefit expert, the chances are that if you are suddenly in need of state benefits of any description, you will struggle to access them.  I have worked full time for more than 40 years and raised 3 children on my own at the same time.  I have never benefitted from any state benefit apart from child benefit that is.  If I were out of work tomorrow I would not even know where to go to claim let alone all the possible things I could claim.  However, if I were Polish I could immediately go to one of their many "Benefity" offices where they will advise me about what I can claim and how to do it.  By the way - I have nothing against Poles - my brother in law is Polish and has lived here since 1947 and my nephews consider themselves Polish - I mention this before the wave of attacks accusing me of being racist begins.  I am not a racist I am a realist and have, because of all the above, a certain amount of knowledge in these areas not to mention that my daughter is an immigration officer and you would not believe the stories I hear from her.I am proud we have a welfare state and frankly I believe we have to suffer a certain amount of its abuse for the benefit of those that really do need it - one day it may be me or it may be you and I would rather have Gordon Brown overseeing it than David Cameron.

Bernie Paul ● 6108d

Re  It matters who is paying for it. Housing benefit enriches landlords, inflates house prices and costs the non-landlord tax payer.             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    First of all, Emma's opening post is incorrect in that the monthly rent for this family is 10X greater ie £12484 ( twelve thousand four hundred and eighty four pounds) per month,2.5 X more than a senior citizen gets in a YEAR in State Pension, and of course, the rent is by no means all this family get from taxpayers. They get in total, £185,000 a year in benefits, which is net, so a person working would have to earn over £300,000 gross to end up what they are GIVEN by this Govt.of OUR money. Margaret Thatcher had the right idea when she said no immigrant should get public housing before every indigenous family is housed, which despite the fact this house is owned by the woman's  uncle from Pakistan , as it is paid for by the public purse, it is public housing. And before anyone says it is an isolated example, it is not, even within Ealing Borough, as told me by Councillors. What I find disgusting is that when this abuse hit the headlines in Oct 2008, the Govt. said it was  ridiculous and must be stopped, which they would arrange. Well it hasn't, the family are still in situ, apparently saying no-one will shift them. If true, such is their gratitude and sincerity, pure example of "up yours matey". One contributor to this thread has said they are many indigenous families similarly housed / treated, without any evidence thereof, so not to be taken seriously.          There have been several posters on here who have said re losing their jobs, fear of losing their house and home, whereas this family have  no such risks. Everything they are given will continue, and they have no job to lose. That a immigrant family can be GIVEN 2x what the P M earns beggars belief. This Govt. set out to upset / destroy the social order of this country and for a Govt. to do that is treason beyond belief and for which they and their sycophants should be strung up from the nearest lamposts.        Despite what this Govt. says, immigration continues at a greater pace, more this year the last. In the year 2007/8 apparently 620,000 persons from overseas registered with the NHS, so gawd knows how many registered with other " agencies ", such as schools, Welfare etc etc.      And this family and the vast majority of other " asylum seekers " are not entitled to be here anyway. By the oft quoted Geneva Convention an asylum seeker must seek shelter in the next country, and I don't think this country is next to Afghanistan or any other from where the mass immigration has taken place from outside the EU. This Govt have no intention of reducing immigration, as we witness in our streets. Last night on a BBC programe with Andrew Marr it was stated for example in London a young person now has 1 in 20 chance of marrying a partner of their own kind, such is the way we have been stabbed in the back.          What I also find strange is none of the well known supporters of all things alien who usually trumpet their "views " on these Forums have come forward to answer the originator's opening question.

Tony Price ● 6106d

Re  'I can understand why you are amazed that someone actually does NOT KNOW how to claim for benefits.'        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        the hitherto ordinary indigenous Brit would not normally have thought of claiming welfare bens as preferring to work and support their families. I have been told many stories of people arriving from overseas and asking immediately where the nearest Benefits Office is. A friend used to work in Council offices and came home each day depressed re the amount of money dished out every day to supposed asylum seekers etc etc. After 20 yrs employment she had to give it up and move out of the Borough to retain sanity.          There used to be a Benefits Office in Acton especially for immigrants, run by the Council under the previous administration, the purpose of which was to advise them how to claim and what for. This establishment was advertised in The Gazette regularly. Whether it still exists I don't know as I no longer ordinarily buy The Gazette.    Each group of immigrants has their own " bush telegraph " so as to get max out of the welfare system. A few years ago I knew  a " doctor " from a m/eastern country who had his own house in Tooting, left his wife cos of her 11 cats came to Ealing, persuaded the Council to pay £600 of the £950 per month rent on a privately rented out place, then after a while told the Council his 7 yr old daughter stayed with him 3 nights a week ( which she did not )but which meant apparently taxpayers were obliged to pay the full amount of the monthly rent ( in addition of course to all other costs, he didn't work nor had done since arrival here 18 yrs earlier ). Now how did he know the twist re the 3 nights bogus staying by the daughter, some "expert" must have advised him, something the ordinary Brit would not know about or ever dream about.

Tony Price ● 6105d

Dennis I totally understand and agree with your comments.  Robin I don't have a clue what you are talking about.  In fact I am clearly thicker than I thought because I don't quite understand a lot of the posts on this thread.  However, I think the problem is actually non political inasmuch as Labour/Tories have both allowed this situation to arise.  I mentioned Poles in my earlier post for one reason and one reason only, I have more than my share of actual knowledge (rather than anecdotal) of THEIR knowledge of OUR benefit system.  I know of a chap who had been in England for many years since before the Poles were actually allowed to be here.  I am not aware of him doing any LEGAL work in the country i.e. paying tax and insurance etc.  However at some point after the Poles were allowed to be here he managed to claim sickness benefit.  I have no idea what for but, after a while his benefit was stopped.  By now he was actually back in Poland however he arrived back in England a few weeks ago purely to attend a tribunal to have his benefit reinstated which he evidently won.  He immediately returned to Poland where he is now happily claiming sickness benefit.  No doubt he will return when he wants something else.That is one example I could go on and on and on with many other examples but what good would it do?  As I said before I do not believe it to be racism its realism.  This country is a laughing stock where benefits are concerned.  The Irish are experiencing similar problems because their economy is almost bankrupt and their benefits are higher than ours.  When a politician said as much he was castigated and branded "RACIST".  Ireland is full of foreigners these days claiming what they can because back in their homelands any benefits they may get are virtually zero.  British benefits are not sufficient for genuine people to live on but a basic British pension is about 20 times that of a Polish one therefore a British pension claimed in Poland can make you very comfortable indeed.Every country in Europe does not open their doors and dish out money to all and sundry the way the UK does.  My son in law is Austrian and cannot get his head around what goes on in the UK.  He has lived here for 13 years now but cannot help making comparisons with the way things are handled in his homeland as opposed to here.  Believe me, apart perhaps from Turks, no-one is beating a path to Austria.Surely the way forward is quite simple.  For anyone claiming benefits of any description in the UK including child benefit, they should have at least 10 years NI contributions towards it.  No contributions (or very few of them) no benefits - end of!

Bernie Paul ● 6104d

Re  When a politician said as much he was castigated and branded "RACIST".          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      That Bernie is a well worn clapped out tag the PC idiots try to put on thinking realist people who KNOW what abuses take place by " foreigners " to our various benefits. These PC walleys cannot begin to answer honest or logical  questions on the issue, therefore revert to the abuse hurling, and there are some pretty good examples of such persons on these forums, only one of whom yet has come forth on this thread but who has not even begun to answer any questions re the subject matter. This Govt. it now transpires purposely set out to bust up social cohesion and society by encouraging mass immigration. Why they and their sycophants and supporters are not tried for treason escapes me. Are you aware if the breadwinner of a family abroad can get to this country he can claim for all his dependents back home , all his wives and all the kids , under our welfare system. Those in the know say we apparently keep whole villages for example in Africa. That this country has been brought to its knees financially by G Brown is clear but who steadfastly refuses to tackle the problem and especially in the area of welfare abuses. I am sure there are enough of our own conning the systems but that is no excuse for importing more conners. And just wait till the control of local and regional benefit offices is no longer in the hands of traditional Brits, which will happen, then the fun will really be on. And let no-one say that won't happen, cos it will. Just look at the 1st year intake at our schools, where " we " are totally outnumbered, some classes where there is not even one european face let alone a traditional Brit.

Tony Price ● 6104d

I have been reading this thread with interest and as usual some people's views are as far out as a lighthouse !When I post or reply to threads I try to be as factual as possible.Fact 1,  Foreigners risk life and limb to get here, Why do you think that is???Fact 2,  They all seem to turn up with ZERO documents or proof of their country of origin/identity..... why???Fact 3,  They are supposed to claim assylum in the FIRST safe country they come across.....  Why don't they???Fact 4,  France was recently voted as the best country to live in..... So why are their god knows how many of these spongers and scroungers trying to get here from france???Fact 5,  Nearly every pole I have come across has some con or screw going on, wether they are selling imported cigs and tobacco,working for cash and paying no tax, some taking deposits for building works and never coming back, benefit fraud, selling counterfeit designer clothes,stealing materials from their employers then doing their own private works thus undercutting honest tradesman as honest men pay for their materials.... I could go on. And before anyone questions my experience in these matters, I have worked on building sites and workshops for nearly 20 years and have worked with them for longer than most people....In fact I have been working with them BEFORE they were legally allowed here.Now I know that English people do all of the above, But like I said nearly EVERY pole I meet does it....I cant say the same for the English.

Andy Wright ● 6102d

"Fact" 1.  Most of them simply migrate, quite legally, in exactly the same way as a Brit going to live in Spain or Australia.  This whole image that everyone who looks a bit different has got here by clinging to the underside of a Eurostar is just pub-bore ranting."Fact" 2.  What is your evidence for this?  Working on building sites that go out to employ illegals?  Perhaps we should trace your login and talk to the police about you, rather than question the vast majority of entirely legal, fully documented immigrants whose only crime was not to be born here."Facts" 3 and 4.  Are you talking about all 'foreigners', asylum seekers (spelt with one 's'), or Poles? Not that it matters to me, but these are all different."Fact" 5.  Every Pole I've come across is a completely legitimate builder, doctor, vet, or dentist.  None of them have cons or screws going on, and nor has my builder tried to sell me counterfeit jeans.  WHen we had British builders they broke stuff and didn't admit to it, turned up late, and wanted payment in cash.  When we had Polish builders they were immaculately clean, arrived at 7.30am every morning, and insisted on being paid by cheque so their tax records were in order.  Draw your own conclusions.  Incidentally, the reason there are so many Poles in West London is that there is a community dating back to when the Free Polish Air Force flew out of RAF Northolt to defend not only Poland but Britain too.  There's a Polish War Memorial off the A40, for a reason.  Same goes for lots of darker-skinned people, too, incidentally.

Gerald Cabb ● 6102d

Gerald its not a case of simple migration.Fact 1.....When the Brits move abroad they have a solid job to go to,a few quid stashed in the bank and a home lined up to move in to..... In fact Australia INSIST on that!Fact 2..... I work for a company just doing a job, I am not an employer and just because some of them maybe here legally does not mean their actions are of the same standard.... Also I am open to all and any scrutiny, Call the queen of England for all I care matey for you will only end up with severe amounts of egg on your face !Fact 3..... Im talking about the people who should not be here Gerald and you still have not answered my questions on why these ppl turn up with no ID and why have they not claimed asylum in the first safe country??Fact 4..... I would like to know approximately how many polish builders/plasterers,chippies,plumbers ect ect you have come across because I can GUARANTEE you its not as many as I have.  I know of employers that wont touch them with a barge pole as once they get " their feet under the desk "they are often agressive,surley,abusive and a staggering amount of them have drink problems.Fact 5..... If Hitler had not attacked Poland do you honestly think the poles would just offer out of the goodness of their hearts to fly our planes???  Fact 6..... Most of the credit card and banking theft in this country is carried out by eastern europeans.Fact 7..... Its most unlikely that a polish builder will turn up at your house and just tell you all about his private dealings wether they are legal or not. Fact 8..... Most of the poles I know are SERIOUSLY racist. The English are known as "English pork"  Indians/Asians are known as " shinyak " (  meaning bruised skin )  and black/carribean are known as " bambo " ( meaning something like african jungle ppl )

Andy Wright ● 6102d

Gerald its not all just about ppl with AIDS. Its about that and more, like I said schools,hospitals ect ect.And yes my point is purely about money.  I see our country starved of vital resources but there's always room for more benefits for ppl who have NEVER paid a penny.Your right about the NHS not treating non EU nationals for free....  So what they do is use either fake ID or someone else's.....or give false details then go back to whatever country they came from.The following article is taken from www.getreading.com.It makes for very interesting reading.‘Health tourists’ costing RBH dearBy Natalie Slater January 04, 2010Health ‘tourists’ dodging bills for treatment have cost Royal Berkshire Hospital around half a million pounds over the last three years.Unpaid bills for surgery to non-EU patients who are not entitled to free health treatment in the NHS have cost the trust £114,882 in the last financial year alone, adding further strain to the already tight budgets needed to survive the recession. A Freedom of Information request obtained by the Reading Post has revealed outstanding bills from 2007/08 totalled £116,962 while the cost to taxpayers in 2006/07 was a massive £260,126.The breakdown of the costing for 2008/09 and 2007/08 has not been made available as the trust said it would entail checking manual records and would exceed the cost limit laid down by the Freedom of Information Act.In February last year, the Evening Post reported on the 2006/07 figures and was given a breakdown that included the biggest outstanding bill, a £13,365 caesarean operation for a Jamaican woman, which still has not been paid.The trust has halved the cost of foreign patients since 2006/07 but the bill to the hospital is still taking money away from other areas that will have to cut costs by up to five per cent over the next four years in line with government targets.Martin Sheldon, acting chief executive and chief finance officer, said: “We have robust checks in place and take every possible step to ensure that we do recover our costs from patients who are not entitled to free treatment under the NHS. “We cannot turn away people who are in genuine need of our assistance but sadly some of these patients will try to avoid paying for the cost of their treatment. “However, these represent a very small percentage of patients and the amount involved is only a tiny proportion of our annual costs.“We are not complacent and intend to further improve on reducing the amount we are owed. The reductions over the past three years clearly show we are being successful in this aim.”The above article is about ONE hospital.  How many hospitals are in the UK Gerald?

Andy Wright ● 6100d

Yes.The repeated (and deceptive) tactic of people like Andy 'Buster', Tony Price, and others, is to keep making statements (this one by Buster) such as:"I have a problem with the work shy, health tourism, foreigners who have multiple claims, foreign criminals,terrorists ect ect.They are the ppl I want to kick out. The ones who make a ZERO contribution to our country.... the ones who come here for a free ride."This is the technique of what is known in politics as the Big Lie, which is to base all your comments and claims on a single false message, which is that "the majority, or a substantial number, of immigrants are scroungers/crooks" and to then keep repeating it, while getting yourself off the 'prejudiced' hook by also repeatedly saying "I don't have a problem with the hardworking ones who contribute to taxes".What this does is to tar the vast majority of hardworking, law-abiding immigrants with the "well, you know, a lot of them are crooks" tag, and that is what is racist.  As pointed out above, the very clear fact that all of your comments are based on visual appearance just goes to prove this even more.It's easy to paint a picture if you view facts selectively.  My wife has distant relatives who live in the Midlands and now have a total of 18 children under 10 among them, among 4 mothers of my wife's age.  None of them or their families work, or have ever worked.  The rest of my wife's side of the family regard them as wastrels, but they're nice people; they're also white.  You don't see, or count, people like that in your calculations because you're too busy counting dark faces on the bus.

Gerald Cabb ● 6099d

Perhaps because, Andy, you misrepresent 'facts and figures' by the way you phrase and ask things yourself.Take this for an example:"Are you actually saying that EVERYONE who comes to the UK is of a good charachter? Who will instantly try to find employment?  Have no intention of commiting crimes?That will make a definate contribution to our society? Will embrace our way of life? Will abide by our rules and laws?Its a simple yes or no answer thats required."Now, let's take your 14% figure for crimes committed.  Searching Google, it links to this:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4946988.stmNow, in there, it verifies your 14%, but it also says this:"In all, however, these criminals comprise less than a quarter of 1% of all foreign-born people in Britain, as recorded in the 2001 Census."So, the answer to your original "simple yes or no" question is, "yes, if you want an absolute answer, with no subtleties, then the answer has to be yes, everyone who immigrates are of good character and have no intention to commit crime".  After all, with the percentage of non-crime committing foreign-born is >99.75% of foreigners, yes is the only answer, isn't it?This is the problem, you see.  You ask a deliberately impossible to answer question, like "can you tell me that absolutely everyone who comes here is honest?" and then you try to use the inevitable answer of no, to to try to imply that that *significant* numbers of immigrants are criminals. This is fraudulent.  What you are implying is, "when you see a foreign person, they may well be a criminal".  But if you see a foreign-born person, the chances are 99.75% to 0.25% that they are as straight as a die.  But you don't give that impression in your posts, do you?

Gerald Cabb ● 6098d

Re  to someone who went to great pains to get here.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      why should they, if they are genuine they should come in above board. There are an estimated 1 million illegals here, half that are acknowledged by Home Office , whose figures have time and time again shown to be so way out ( wonder why ) that they need to be doubled at least. Remember the 18000 or so Polish immigrants  who turned out to be 850,000 or thereabouts. What you and others of similar mould fail or refuse to  understand is that we are being made strangers in our own land. When I now walk in West Ealing / Uxbridge Road, persons of European appearance at best are very much in the minority, same all the way from S/bush  almost to Uxbridge itself. I know so many  immigrant friends who themselves genuinely do not like the way things are going, and themselves  either have or intend to move, 'cos of the influx in the last 10 years in particular. Asians are moving out of Southall 'cos of influx of Somalis who they cannot stand. Multi-culturalism is a myth, no such thing, as our Trev himself has said. All we are getting is a multi- fragmented country including being split into  no-go areas for indig whites, such as locally Southall Park  was recently designated. I am sorry, but you advocates of all things alien and mass immigration are on to a loser, yuorselves being in that category eventually but then it will be too late. At least I have an alternative bolt hole in Hampshire but I pity those who are stuck here as they are forced to witness their country and environment disappearing before their eyes, which is what I have witnessed myself in the last 10 yrs or so. But good luck to you when you are swamped, which will happen. Just to please the red breasted one I will analyse the photos of  first year intake in Ealing Schools, just to show how things are going, the content of the schools being the population of the future, 10 t0 12 years only away. Kosavar friend is moving out of Hayes because of third world immigration. With your "arguments " you are peeing into the wind. May your God  be with you, 'cos HE will be not have many of HIS own flock to look after. Even British Transport Police have now banned HIM so as not to upset the ethnics. Turn the clock back  20yrs or so and one could never have imagined such madness ever taking root in England. But as I said, good luck to you, if that is what you want for your children, so be it. Not for me however, nor 80% of the national population.

Tony Price ● 6098d

Re  to someone who went to great pains to get here.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      why should they, if they are genuine they should come in above board. There are an estimated 1 million illegals here, half that are acknowledged by Home Office , whose figures have time and time again shown to be so way out ( wonder why ) that they need to be doubled at least. Remember the 18000 or so Polish immigrants  who turned out to be 850,000 or thereabouts. What you and others of similar mould fail or refuse to  understand is that we are being made strangers in our own land. When I now walk in West Ealing / Uxbridge Road, persons of European appearance at best are very much in the minority, same all the way from S/bush  almost to Uxbridge itself. I know so many  immigrant friends who themselves genuinely do not like the way things are going, and themselves  either have or intend to move, 'cos of the influx in the last 10 years in particular. Asians are moving out of Southall 'cos of influx of Somalis who they cannot stand. Multi-culturalism is a myth, no such thing, as our Trev himself has said. All we are getting is a multi- fragmented country including being split into  no-go areas for indig whites, such as locally Southall Park  was recently designated. I am sorry, but you advocates of all things alien and mass immigration are on to a loser, yuorselves being in that category eventually but then it will be too late. At least I have an alternative bolt hole in Hampshire but I pity those who are stuck here as they are forced to witness their country and environment disappearing before their eyes, which is what I have witnessed myself in the last 10 yrs or so. But good luck to you when you are swamped, which will happen. Just to please the red breasted one I will analyse the photos of  first year intake in Ealing Schools, just to show how things are going, the content of the schools being the population of the future, 10 t0 12 years only away. Kosavar friend is moving out of Hayes because of third world immigration. With your "arguments " you are peeing into the wind. May your God  be with you, 'cos HE will be not have many of HIS own flock to look after. Even British Transport Police have now banned HIM so as not to upset the ethnics. Turn the clock back  20yrs or so and one could never have imagined such madness ever taking root in England. But as I said, good luck to you, if that is what you want for your children, so be it. Not for me however, nor 80% of the national population.

Tony Price ● 6098d

Why, do you feel intimidated by Harriet Harman?Several reasons, I'll list a few.Typical of a senior female Socialist politician - a dogma-driven loudmouth and bully.Of course she may be more articulate, it's part of what being a politician is about, but like her kind and followers is only capable of providing dis- and mis- information rather than being direct or even giving an answer.It's when she's "heckled" that the sham falls over and why she grins. That's not limited to the females, Tony Blair did the same and George Brown sticks his tongue into his cheek.Articulation is a useful skill, a bit like wiping one's backside properly, but it is not a measure of intelligence or commonsense. In fact it is probably only a measure of articulatory skill."...the 'criminal or anti-social' element among those minority ethnic groups that you claim evade paying their bus fare. Where I live (Southall) I don't see much in the way of anti-social behaviour: just an overwhelmingly polite people who apologise if you bump into them...The "element" appears disproportionately higher within certain ethnic groups. Southall is probably an unfortunate place to select as the vast majority of its inhabitants are from the Commonwealth and are as "British" as the rest of us. Of course they are polite, they embody our sense of fairness and courtesy. "I've never met a racist who is polite, intelligent or hygienic."Is this suggesting that males with lots of facial hair are potential racists? Perhaps you should get a job with the security forces sniffing out likely terrorists."We, the decent (non racist) majority are fed up of your moaning, your spitting, your swearing, your shouting, your thuggery and your general all-round unpleasantness as individuals. Kindly f-off."Interesting statement. And why?non racist - nobody, at least on this web-site, has suggesting all immigrants should go, only those that have no right here, or those that have come on bogus reasons, and those who have little intention of improving the country ( a bit like Socialists).moaning - the whole country is moaning about the overload.spitting - taking that literally, I don't but judging by the amount of fresh saliva on the ground I see during the daytime and referring to the population mix of free riders on buses...swearing - Kindly f-off. Polite start to the sentence but quickly falls of into swearing. I am assuming the single "f"  refers to a slang word for copulation which most people would consider offensive swearing, rather than "f" for a word, which I can't think of, meaning have a pleasant day.shouting - only responding to the shouting I have heard.Thuggery - don't indulge, that's something for the socialists, think NUM as an example, and I doubt many of the Poll Tax rioters were Conservative voters even before the riot.Unpleasantness - what's wrong with keeping Britain pleasant and keeping it that way so people will want to come from abroad knowing they will get a warm welcome from a stable, coherent society which is held together by "Britishness" rather than a  divided society which is held together by Socialist bullying.

Alan Brainsby ● 6097d

Re  It's why you are shunned by polite society and have no friends.      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    one Iraqi friend phoned today to explain why he hadn't come to visit, reason it appears he has flu, so I suggested he has swine flu. He WAS amused.    Another friend from overseas, one who I have supported finacially  to help him through University, phoned to say he is on a training course in Sheffield, who had attended his Graduation Ceremony last week, and he was especially proud of not only getting a First Class Honours degree but also his thesis was adopted by the University as the best produced at the Uni and for which he also received exta acclaim. I told him his parents back in Ukraine will be especially proud of him ( as I am ) to which he said he phoned them Sunday but they already knew,brother had spilled the beans on Sat. This friend has moved out of Southall to Glasgow where he has managed to get a job, which when he got there said Tony, it is so much better than London, and said why. He had  told me many times what is happening to England would not be tolerated in The Ukraine. I was about to call this friend anyway to thank him for the very nice present he gave me for Christmas, which he had left with friends here for me awaiting my return from Hampshire on sunday. Another friend told me this evening not to visit as " they " were going on a weeks special holiday in Devon. When my Chinese friend saw me this afternoon he threw his arms round me, rather nice I thought.      I also went to the Central Library to read Sunday's papers re Investment Bonds as I have just been notified of one about to mature. I sat at a table for 3, the other two being rare breeds these days, ie English. Hubby exclaimed to wife re an article on Spanish dream coming to an end, which started a conversation between them. Transpires they have just moved back from Spain, so I got involved in discussion with them. Apparently the fall of the pound vis a vis the Euro has made C o L in Spain a little difficult for Brits. They had been there since 1986 so I asked what was their impression of this country upon their return. Utter disgrace was hubby's retort, and I will tell you why, he said, in one word  IMMIGRATION. There are no English here anymore, place has been taken over ( handed over I interjected ). It will be a disaster hubby said, multi-culturalism will bring about the downfall of London ( I said no such thing possible, there cannot be a multi-cultural society but a multi- fragmented one). Wife said Southall used be contained but now spreading outwards in all directions. I mentioned school content. Yes she said and on TV they show only the legs of the children so we cannot see who /  what they are. I said so you have spotted that as well, which she obviously had. I said you should look on the Ealing Forum and see how the lefties, loonies and commies are all for destroying the country. Hope we meet you again she said as closing time drew nigh. She had told me when they moved to Spain they had  had to prove holding a residential address there, sufficient income to support themselves and holding Private Health Insce (latter  no longer necessary ). So all in all, inter alia  an interesting day, most of my calls being from a Dutch lady. Plus e mails from a former  M P currently holidaying in Portugal.

Tony Price ● 6097d

Harking back to the question of immgrants using and abusing OUR NHS, what about  the abuse of pregnant persons arriving here, Heathrow usually , within a few days of impending child delivery and plonking themselves at a hospital to have the baby delivered, knowing the hospitals can't turn them away due to the " emergency" situation. The same  abuse applies, or applied to Eire but I have a feeling they did something about it, how or what I can't remember.      There was the classic case of a pregnant woman from a mid African country ( begins with N  and renowned for financial skullduggery ) who within days of impending delivery, presented herself to an NHS hospital for the delivery to take place under N H S facilities and when the baby was born and found to be " defective " refused to accept it and intended to shove off back to Africa  leaving us literally holding the baby with all the attendent costs incurred therewith for life. From memory she was made to stay due I think on the basis of post natal care but what was the eventual outcome was I can't remember but which highlighted the abuse by pregnant women from abroad.      Also  a few years back hospital (s ) in South London found it necessary to complain to the Home Office re persons flying in from overseas with kidney disease needing immediate dialysis treatment, which being life threatening and urgent, had to be carried out and which meant indigs waiting for their pre - aranged booked dialysis were pushed back and back.

Tony Price ● 6097d

Re  here for reasons of personal betterment by " any means ".               xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx bit more fiddling of statistics on purpose by the " Authorities " re indigs vis a vis immigrants, wonder why that should be!! :-        " Migration Threatens the DNA Of Our NationGeorge Carey -- The Timeshttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6978389.ece.. The sheer numbers of migrants from within Europe and elsewhere put the resources of Britain under enormous pressure, but also threaten the very ethos or DNA of our nation .. .. But what I am saying is that those who seek to live in this country recognise that they are coming to a country with a Christian heritage and an established Church. Just as we should expect immigrants to subscribe to democratic principles, abide by our laws, speak English, support freedom of speech and a free press, so they should also respect the Christian nature and history of our nation with its broad, hospitable Establishment.A recent You Gov survey commissioned by the Mental Health Foundation, found that 70% of people are most worried about terrorism and 58% by immigration. One of the consequences of these and other worries is that 15% of adults expressed a reluctance to have children. 27% felt less inclined to plan for the future.A response from Tony Linsell.The birth rate for English people in England has for many decades been below replacement level. By English it is meant the indigenous or ethnic English. There are no direct figures for the English birth-rate (total period fertility rate) because most public bodies which have a statutory duty to collect statistics and other information about the various racial groups in the UK are failing to collect information about the ethnic English. The Office for National Statistics can tell us the UK birth-rate for Bangladeshis, African-Caribbean, Chinese and many others but not for the English. Figures for the English have to be ‘arrived at’ indirectly by using figures giving birth-rates and population sizes of other ethnic groups in England and the UK.Due principally to lobbying from Steadfast, the 2007 Test Census includes an ‘English’ tick-box in the section which asks, What is your ethnicity? However, there are concerns in the English community that progressives will attempt to get ‘English’ removed from the census form before the full 2011 census takes place. This is because progressives, with the support of the UK government, are intent on promoting an inclusive definition of Englishness which makes it next to impossible to distinguish the indigenous / ethnic English from everyone else who lives in England.

Tony Price ● 6095d

Reference was made somewhere in this lengthy thread to preferential treatment to immigrants vis a vis indig population ie those who come here, even uninvited,  get benefits of all descriptions, including disability bens for disabilties they bring with them and obviously for which they have contributed nothing , whereas :-       " TelegraphBritish expats out of pocket after Government cuts their benefitsHundreds of British expatriates have been left out of pocket because the Government is refusing to pay them disability benefits.By Patrick SawerPublished: 8:30AM GMT 10 Jan 2010  John Hamilton who lost his £45 a week disability allowance when he and his wife Tina moved to northern France. Photo: John HamiltonThe European Commission is now taking ministers to court over their decision to deny the benefits to British citizens living on the continent.Campaigners say the withdrawal of the Disability Living Allowance to Britons living overseas has left many struggling to cope on severely reduced incomes.  The European Court of Justice ruled in 2007 that benefits such as the disability allowance were "exportable" and should continue to be paid even when an individual leaves his country of origin and moves to another member state.Yet despite the ruling, the UK Government has stuck with its policy of withholding the payments – prompting a warning from the European Commission that unless Britain falls into line by the end of this month, ministers will be dragged back into court and forced to defend their decisions.The approach contrasts with the stance taken by the British government on paying benefits to foreigners living in the UK. The Sunday Telegraph revealed last year that in order to comply with European Union rules, Britain is paying child benefit for 37,900 children who have remained behind in Poland while one or both of their parents work in the UK.Roger Gale, the Conservative MP, who is fighting on behalf of an estimated 2,000 expats thought to have been stripped of the disability benefits, said: "These are people who have paid UK taxes all their lives and it is outrageous that they should now be denied the benefits they need and deserve, just because they have chosen to live in Spain or France."            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    so one rule for indigs and one for immigrants?

Tony Price ● 6095d