Forum Topic

Arthur Breens · 01/22/2010 12:34:00

new.EalingToday.co.uk Communtity Forum Topic posting

14,000 new homes in the Uxbridge Road corridor by 2026

This is part of the contents of the consultation ("out" very quietly now) to help guide planning decisions over the next 15 years. The consultation is to comment on the Local Development Framework (LDF). As I understand it the role of the council in producing the LDF is to pull together the housing targets set by Boris and Westminster, the "will of the people" to preserve some of their quality of life and produce a plan that forges viable communities and developers who want to make money. Tough stuff eh? Around a year ago the council took a stall at a property fair called Mipim in Cannes. This was to meet developers who want to make money in Ealing. It seems important that we as citizens know what took place in Cannes last year. I have made a FoI request for this information as it was not available in the consultation material. The Statutory 20 day period allowed by the law to process this request has now expired. Our chief executive knows it and you know it. This is just one tiny element of an enormous debate: school places, doctors lists, high rise buildings, consultation, transport, jobs. What do you think?

Arthur Breens ● 6094d42 Comments

Please could you act in the most robust of ways in getting that FoI information. It gets right up my trumpet that Ealing Council have yet again stepped outside the law in supplying information. To do nothing would make it twice as hard for the next person to get information, and a public body breaking the law must be be challanged

Dennis Bailey ● 6093d

Do not worry Arthur is a legend of robustness!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6093d

Stop Press. FoI request has and is arriving.Well done Ealing.Furthr notes to follow.

Arthur Breens ● 6093d

I've looked at the MIPIM stuff that Arthur received from the Council. The Council had 100 development sites up for sale and 32 'old' housing estates up for demolition and rebuild with lots more homes to be packed onto the sites. Clearly if the Dickens Yard model is to be followed, all the tens of acres of public land on which these estates sit will be sold off to property developers.Specifically BTW the LDF plans call for 10,000 new homes (mostly flats) to be built within 800 metres of Acton, Ealing, West Ealing and Southall Stations by 2026. the Council is promising to tell us in May 2020 where the new schools, new NHS Polyclinics and new Police Stations/'Shops' will be built to locally service these 20,000+ new residents.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6087d

They need to push for more Train capacity on the line before they do that.

Peter Chadburn ● 6087d

Cannot recall where I have seen it but Ealing expects the population to grow by 40,000 people.I can research if needed but Eric may know. So the next question is whether that projection included all or only some of these new homes? Arthur says 14000 new homes and Eric says the LDF suggests 10000 homes. Where do the extra 4000 get built?Immediately we are into number games and we need the Council to be much more clear on what they are thinking about. It is no use hiding in in LDFs and other abstruse documents. This could usefully be brought to our attention in AR and in the Press.Arthur. I am not clear what you mean about the Consultation. Is it finished or has it started because there is nothing on the Consultations page.http://www.cartoplus.co.uk/ealing/text/sheet15.htmshows a plan but I suspect it will be superseded.This year Ealing broadly hit its housing targets, but did not on new Employment targets. As I have said last year to Cllr Millican the Council is not doing nearly enough to create employment in the Borough. If we have a huge population increase with out extra employment and the new population lives near the stations, then because the tube does not realistically have the capacity to run more trains each hour the overcrowding will become by default gradually extremely unbearable. Having trains and Tubes without much more capacity means people will want cars to go to work. Many people in Ealing already do that. But to take one example, there is considerable anger over the lack of parking space around the Avenue and Argyll Road, and no doubt that has happened partly because of the new high rise flats recently occupied. A problem has been created, and there does not seem to be a solution.That problem without a solution is going to repeat itself.I just cannot believe that in 20 years people will tolerate long distance travel, and I really do think that our Central or local planners cannot see this. They are planning on how we are in the present without using their imagination as to how work and travel will be let alone parking.Do we draw a line and say New Towns must be built post haste, or do we sit back and watch over the decades the growth of mini Bejiings? Do we care or is it just evolution?

George Knox ● 6087d

Re will be built to locally service these 20,000+ new residents. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx any idea where these new " residents " will be coming from

Tony Price ● 6087d

George,You are wrong about Ealing meeting its housing targets this year. The target this year is around 900 new homes and Ealing will build less than 300 - and the same will apply to next year.Boris will also miss his overall home building target for London as well as missing by quite a wide margin his Affordable Housing targets. And for that matter so will Gordon Brown nationally.These targets really are the Emperor's new clothes.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6087d

"These targets really are the Emperor's new clothes."So that's why burqas aren't on the "to be banned" agenda!

Alan Brainsby ● 6087d

Yes Eric you are right and I am wrong. It was probably the port. Please accept my apologies.It was the AMR in December 2009 but which of course referred to the previous year. Got my dates mixed up.On employment page 72 the report says:Demand for business use of land in Ealing still remains fairly steady perhaps reflected through the low vacancy rate in the borough. Despite the fact that 31,327 sq. m. of new employment floorspace was completed during the year, there was still an overall net loss of 9,120 sq. m. of employment floorspace, where employment uses were lost to other non-employment based uses. It is noted that the significant change in employment land, both losses and gains, has occurred most significantly outside of the formally designated employment areas.The report also says:The employment land review demonstrated that 22.4 ha of former industrial land in Ealing alone had been lost or granted permission for non-employment use since 2001.

George Knox ● 6087d

George,As for the other 4,000 homes, many are planned to be located along the A40 'corridor'.Ealing's employment profile shows that far more residents work outside the borough than work in the borough. Many traders with businesses based in Ealing can't afford to live in Ealing so have to travel in and out of the town each day. Providing transport and parking arrangements for the current employment patterns is hard enough - never mind trying to plan for an uncertain future.One of the most annoying things about the 300+ page September 2009 Ealing LDF Core Strategy 2011 - 2026 Public Consultation documents is that they do not/did not contain any intelligent discourse or debate on transport, social and community services. There is nothing covering approaches, options and alternatives. The words 'Peak Oil' (ie we are now beginning to run out of oil) are not amongst the 50,000 words in the documents. The realities of building a new lifestyle which is not dependent on oil will certainly be upon us before 2026. Food security, food miles and growing food locally are likely to become big issues - however not according to Ealing planners.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6087d

That employment profile has been there for a long time. Will the younger generation of Councillors who get voted in have the intelligence to see and act on it?You probably have readLocal Authority New build and Affordable Housing Update dated 12 January 2010 http://www.ealing.gov.uk/ealing3/export/sites/ealingweb/services/council/committees/agendas_minutes_reports/cabinet/19may2009-24may2010/_12_jan_2010/Item_09_-_Local_Authority_New_Build_and_Affordable_Housing_Update.docA key paragraph says:“In preparation for the Council’s new Housing Strategy, a strategic housing market assessment was commissioned (SHMA). This showed that there is a need for over 2,500 additional homes a year to meet all newly arising and existing need. This is against a potential supply of 915 new homes a year set out in the London Plan (i.e. for Ealing). Although our housing association partners were able to provide 537 affordable homes last year, this is still someway short of meeting all need.”Oh dear! Slightly different to the Housing Trajectory 2009 of 915 dwellings for the foreseeable future. Or is the 2500 figure for west London? Nevertheless is our 915 figure at risk? Some how I might have to wade through 300 pages. Is there a summary in English?Another paragraph:“Ealing has a population of 300,000 and is expected to rise to 350,000 by 2026. This will be made up of 146,000 households that will require housing through Ealing’s public and private sector stock”Elsewhere recently there was a Council document saying that there are difficulties in agreeing population stats with outside agencies.Another paragraph:“Having agreed to meet the London Mayor’s affordable housing target the Council is keen to address equally important factors such as providing more family homes with better space standards.”The target (which was missed) for affordable homes appears to be 50% of total home building. Cannot find the target for homes to accommodate large families, but the Council is doing very badly on this issue and that is corroborated in this Update.

George Knox ● 6087d

"any idea where these new " residents " will be coming from"He's off again.

Robin Taylor ● 6087d

Afghanistan, Somalia, Haiti, Ethiopia, Chad (big problems there), Yemen and Chiswick

Penny Crocker ● 6087d

This is not so much about who will live in these homes. It is about whether we want so many homes and whether the planners are thinking through the practical consequences of inflicting such massive change in a realtively short period.May we please leave the ethnic issues to the very many other threads. If Tony and Robin wish to comment on the the planning issues, then please would they stay closer to planning. Thank you

George Knox ● 6086d

Forgive me if this has already been covered or is taken into account by those of you more knowledgable than me but aren't there Central Government targets about the number of new homes which must be built in London and the South East to meet the perceived need? Does Ealing council have much choice?

Penny Crocker ● 6086d

Penny I don't know, but what I do know is that Ealing, and for that matter other Councils, will not take the directives lying down and the government will listen to the public. Imagine for instance that all the polls were suggesting a very uncertain outcome in the Spring and that housing was as big an isssue as immigration.If the Tories were to say that they would have a huge new towns policy as against the labour offering new affordable housing then we would have some choice. I heard today that there are some 350,000 people on Housing lists just in the London area.

George Knox ● 6086d

Re which must be built in London and the South East to meet the perceived need? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx supposedly London and South East expected to need provision for 800,000 or more extra souls, which would be a small part of the estimated extra 7 million increase in overall national population increase, so I very much doubt the 800,000 will be the eventual figure for London. Why we need all these extra bodies is a mystery and I wish a political party would have the guts and honesty to boldly put it in their manifestos what they intend to do on the immmigration issue. That they don't does rather suggests they know they daren't as the vast majority of the population are firmly against more immigration.

Tony Price ● 6086d

Surely a lot of the demand for housing will be from our "indig" population saddled by student debt who will not be able to get a mortgage let alone buy a normal house even if they are in a good job. Low cost housing both rented and bought is a big need. it will help bring house prices to a more realistic level rather than the housing ladder we currently have with missing rungs. Young professional people now stand little chance of buying and many people in temporary employment no chance. The immigration issue is the exploitation of cheap imported labour by big corporations at the cost of local people who have the skills. There are many myths about skill shortages and quite handilly the big corps with their contributions to labour/conservative party are allowed to exploit them. So the young people leaving University have it twice as hard as before. The jobs they should get are being given to low cost people because coveniently the skill has a shortage!! re building workers at the Olympic Village.

Peter Chadburn ● 6086d

Housing targets?There are national, regional and local housing targets and none of them are being met.The Ealing Housing list is over 11,000 and other London boroughs have similar volumes of 'unhoused'.Thatcher began the process of not building Council Houses and Blair kept that policy going so the 'gap' in Council/Social Housing is massive.This is a really hard nut to crack but setting and massively missing house building targets is not helpful.Building 60s style residential tower block ghettos in places like Dickens Yard will not help either, partly as there is quite simply no room to provide locally the social and community infrastructure to support the 100s of new residents.What we need are local, regional and national debates about how we sensibly and practically deal with housing the 'unhoused'.If we have to house 10,000s more people in the UK over the next 20 years, London is clearly not the place to do it as it's 'full'. We need to build new communities (not just homes). However the problem might be that no-one in the world will lend us the money to do this as we do appear to be heavilly in debt already.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6086d

This isn't entirely about housing; it's about social engineering.This has been achieved in education by comprehensive school, less rigorous examinations, and an increase in the number of university places - quantity over quality.Social engineering as practised by this present government is not dissimilar to the education policy. It is trying to spread its core base of voters everywhere rather than their natural habitat north of Warwick. Even though the first tenants of new "social" housing probably won't be able to vote, eventually the properties will be filled with Socialist voters. This is not much different from Gerrymandering.Obviously the demands for new housing will stop when the Socialists have a clear continuing majority in London. They will then target other Socialist weak-spots.In the absence of a reply from a suitably qualified Labour politician clearly demonstrating my supposition is incorrect then we should all carefully consider what sort of nation our descendants will inherit.

Alan Brainsby ● 6086d

Re should all carefully consider what sort of nation our descendants will inherit. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx exactly, and one has only to see what that will be by examining the schools intake each year, and not just one isolated year but the cumulative effect. London and many other cities will no longer be " British ". The recent incident at a school in Tower Hamlets? where a Christian teacher was dismissed for challenging 8-9yr old pupils of the Muslim faith who barracked him for being a Christian, something which presumably was taught them by their parents, who in a decent society should have been interrogated and prosecuted for spreading racism and religious intolerance. Thankfully this man has the guts to stand up to be counted, let's hope he wins and puts all the PC walleys including that schools Governors to flight. But in N L's Britain, truth and justice are not firm favourites.

Tony Price ● 6085d

I see that once again Tony Price is repeating the BNP propoganda line.Let's take a look at exactly what he said in his lastest post:"and one has only to see what that will be by examining the schools intake each year, and not just one isolated year but the cumulative effect. London and many other cities will no longer be " British "."That's very similar to what BNP leader Nick Griffin said after he appeared on Question Time: he declared that London was no longer a British city (because the London-based audience of that edition of QT had shown him up to be the scoundrel he is).Tony Price goes on to make further inflammatory remarks about Muslim pupils who he says barracked a teacher over his Christian faith. But where is the proof that such a thing happened? Somehow, I doubt that it did.But it pleases Tony to think it did, because it gives him another excuse to have one of his good olds moans.

Robin Taylor ● 6084d

Re Muslim pupils who he says barracked a teacher over his Christian faith. But where is the proof that such a thing happened? Somehow, I doubt that it did. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx what pray are your reasons for this, bearing in mind the victim has taken case to Tribunal. I would have thought wiser to wait and see what comes out of that?

Tony Price ● 6084d

"what pray are your reasons for this, bearing in mind the victim has taken case to Tribunal. I would have thought wiser to wait and see what comes out of that?"Precisely.In which case, why are you making statements about what the facts are before the tribunal has reached a verdict?

Robin Taylor ● 6084d

Re why are you making statements about what the facts xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx because that is what the aggrieved victim has alledged and pursued the matter. So why are you stalking harassing me, as you patently are. Every post I had made, you used to launch into personal abuse, harassment, the result of stalking.

Tony Price ● 6084d

I am sorry this has happened because I do believe that those of us who live in Ealing have a big problem. This part of the consultation (58 responses for a population of 349,000) is over George but more will follow. The consultation on Safety Improvements in Northfield Ave by way of contrast produced 130 responses. I tried to ask for an LDF debate to be included in the Walpole Ward Forum but this was refused. Cllr Taylor said he knew nothing about Mipim. So even amoung the councillors there appears to be quite a lot of ignorance. Even the data of something simple like the current population of Ealing can't be tied down. Some of the Council data seems to lag well behind reality. (Mine above is based on GP registrations last year). Ealing say they won't reach this figure until 2026. What worries me most of all is that no one worries that these figures tell such different stories. How can you plan for more unless you have some handle on what the problem is now. Certainly the LDF Scutiny chairman Cllr John Cowing doesn't ask for a short paper on population estimates and a better idea of the exact figure for debate at the next meeting. Eric and I raised it at the last LDF scrutiny meeting. No one said they would offer to make a better estimate. Why do you think that was?

Arthur Breens ● 6083d

I think we are undeniably living here in a very crowded community. If Boris and Gordon force housing targets on Ealing, which it and other London Boroughs and the UK as a whole can't meet (and are not meeting) then somebody somewhere has to call a halt to these fictional plans.However Ealing's Housing (ie unhoused ) List still stands at over 11,000 and London's at 350,000.The Arcadia debacle must have given a clear messsage to anyone who wants to listen that residents don't want tall residential towers in their communities. The empty buildings and empty would-be building plots in Ealing's centre are clear signs that the money is just not available for 'development'.What is needed is a no-holds barred public debate on these tricky issues. Save Ealing's Centre, the volunteer alliance of 25 local residents' groups, will stage such a debate on these issues at Ealing Town Hall on Monday 22nd February. Come along and have your say. On 6th May you'll be able to tell the Conservative Party controlled Council what you think by voting for new local Councillors. The way it's going you'll also be able on that date to vote for whoever you think will best represent your interests in Parliament.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6083d

I watched last night part 1 of The Tower Block of Commons programme on Channel4 - a few MPs swapping their jobs for life on Council sink estates.I know anyway from own visits about the utter deprivation disrepair and fear which can be found. There is so much evidence from the experts about how bad it is for people to live in monstrous high rise blocks and how bad it is for neighbour hoods.Although the first programme in some part recorded the MPs getting over the shock of what they had let themselves in for, what to me was really astounding was just really how far they are removed from what goes on in the poverty end of the world in the UK. These were MPs from all main parties. There wasn’t so much a problem with language as the hosts were mainly very vocal. It was more Darwinesque. It was as though these MPs had suddenly chanced upon a new tribe of people who live so utterly differently from the MPs. And these were MPs who are responsible for shaping our lives. They are experienced and well educated and articulate but they were ignorant and in some cases very lacking in empathy. The programme was a serious indictment of very very poor Housing management – something which for so many Councillors in this country carry the blame – Ealing included. So if the MPs were so bad, what hope is there for wannabe Councillors?The benefits trap not only discourages people from working, but even when they start, then there is the housing trap which prevents so many from affording to leave for better housing.To even countenance building new high rise shows just how ignorant our Council is. To try and impose a repeat of social deprivation and add to the process of wrecking our towns and the borough is just a continuation of what Mrs Thatcher started and the follow my Tory leader Socialists have done since 1997.Yes we need social engineering on a grand 1930s Germany scale and if Prescott did what he said he would do in terms of huge house building then the problem would not be so bad. Who to vote for? Wow! And our local opposition parties are so incontrovertibly wet in that they just will not tell us what they propose for this Borough. So the Tories take the old bribe and get Council pockets lined with Section 106 monies for pet projects in the Borough over which there seems little control in exchange for an assault on our communities with new tower blocks. It’s time for the London Councils to tell any government to sod off and build new towns near the motorways. It’s time for long term unemployed homeless to be decanted.Got that over with!I don’t know Scrutiny works, but if the questions in the consultations are not partly engineered by the people, then what is Scrutiny? Parliament needs to change but that is another debate.Eric, will your meeting have Council Officers who will engage in the debate?

George Knox ● 6082d

SEC is inviting local politicians and local Officers as well as MPs and prospective MPs to this 22nd February open forum.The meeting will be open to all and no doubt locally active property developers and property managers like St George, Glenkerrin, A2Dominion, Ealing BID and Rydon will attend or send their spies. Whether these capitalists will engage in the debates is another matter entirely.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6082d

Thank you for the Channel 4 plug George. I watched it. Ealing's plans (LDF) talk about "landmark tall buildings" just another way to describe tower blocks. As a housing solution tower blocks are too delicate. It is all too easy for them to fall into the sort of chaos we saw in the programme. I wonder if Pat Hayes or Cllr David Millican saw this programme and have they and their families ever lived in a Tower Block? They are driving this densification. I stood up at the Acton LDF consultation meeting and played the old duffer card by saying that I grew up when tower blocks were the bees and ees only to see them generate social problems and or technical problems. By the time I was in my 40s I saw them being pulled down all over the country. I thought we had learnt our lesson. The meeting was held in the Church Hall of St Mary's Acton. To my surprise the vicar jumped up and supported and added to what I had said using as an example a tower block in West London. I later discovered that he had been a social worker so he had actually been in a tower block to see his clients and knew what he was talking about. There is a small but rather ugly tower block above Waitrose in west Ealing ...yes brand spanking new but I heard that someone was moving out because the lifts kept breaking down. So we'll see what Millican has to say at Save Ealing Centre meeting especially now that the key Arcadia Tower block was refused by our superiors.

Arthur Breens ● 6079d

I thought I'd have a look at the list of development opportunities in Ealing. http://ealingopportunities.com was seemingly created by Ealing Council in 2008. It details the 100 development sites and the 32 estates to be demolished /rebuilt with more 'housing units' in towers. I looked on Thursday and the site was 'unavailable' - same response on Friday and the same today. Technical problems with the site maybe? Or maybe political problems with the site...

Eric Alan Leach ● 6079d

Re There is a small but rather ugly tower block above Waitrose in west Ealing ...yes brand spanking new but I heard that someone was moving out because the lifts kept breaking down. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx that Arthur is a private development in my opinion of the most hideous appearance, the cost of each flat being well in excess of £300k. What the cladding on the exterior walls is made of I don't know but looks like metal, but the whole thing is a monstrosity and I am not only surprised Waitrose allowed such to be built but also to have their name emblazoned across it. Tastes are going downhill, imagine what that will look like in 25 years from now, has the appearance of an industrial building. I read somewhere on this Forum it interferes with TV signals presumably due to it's contruction materials. Wonder what Charles would think about it!!. Imagine what an area would look like if all the flats were like " Luminosity Court ", which I think it is called.

Tony Price ● 6079d

"On 6th May you'll be able to tell the Conservative Party controlled Council what you think by voting for new local Councillors. The way it's going you'll also be able on that date to vote for whoever you think will best represent your interests in Parliament."But not, of course, the Mayor whose budget contains substantial (£4bn) funds for housing and whose London Plan tells everyone else where he's going to put it...

Thomas Barry ● 6078d

Thomas is correct about this.Although England does not have a national spatial plan as such - London does. The London Plan ( a so called Regional Spatial Strategy) was first conceived by Mayor Ken. Boris, as the second London Mayor, is changing this plan (as is the wont of incoming rulers). This new, Boris version of the plan was published in October 2009 and the public were asked ('quietly' as is the way of these things ) to comment upon it.Of course in years to come you'll all have the chance to vote out Boris - but not vote out The London Plan. And here's the rub with Ealing's Local Development Framework (LDF). When the LDF finally gains the London Mayor's approval in 2013/4 it will be pretty much set in stone - much like the current Ealing Unitary Development Plan is now.So if you don't want huge residential tower blocks housing 10,000 people close to Acton, Ealing Broadway, West Ealing and Southall railway stations start agitating NOW.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6077d

Could not find the opportunities site, but accidentally chanced on an education site asking for supply teachers at about £130 per day in Ealing.

George Knox ● 6077d

George "opportunities" site has gone awol shortly after I discovered it in my FoI request responses. It came out of a catalogue obviously presented to developers at Cannes and this website directed them to details of sites etc. Being a duffer I have been completely unable to find similar plans/maps on the council website. Later today I may be able to locate this information.

Arthur Breens ● 6077d

Tryhttp://www.ealing.gov.uk/services/regeneration/major_development_sites/is that the one you were after.

Peter Chadburn ● 6077d

On Channel 4 tonight Monday on the Acton estate.Next Person.Please change title of thread to the original. Thanks

George Knox ● 6076d

www.ealinginlondon.comIn here you'll find what's up for sale in Ealing at next month's international property jamboree in Cannes. Public property up for sale that is. Ealing Council is the seller.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6075d

The fairest, therefore won't happen, way to determine whether new housing is to be built would be at the Ward level - a very local referendum.Part of the trouble is that many politicians choose not to understand the meaning of the word "NO", or even "YES" when appropriate.

Alan Brainsby ● 6074d