Forum Topic

Mosque Application To be Considered by Ealing

What do you think? Ealing Council has extended the deadline for residents to make their views known about proposals for a new mosque.The planning application submitted to the authority is to convert two empty shops in Horsenden Lane North, Greenford. It has received more than 400 responses on the Council's website.Planning permission was due to have been decided on January 27 but has been delayed after residents complained that the consultation was not wide enough.Locals are concerned the mosque could cause traffic chaos in the area - but supporters of the religious facility say it would be used for people who lived locally and would arrive on foot.Muslims have been looking for a place to meet and pray for several years and have been using a temporary hut off Greenford Road.Council officers had recommended approving the proposal after the first consultation.The new consultation will end on February 22 and the application will be heard by councillors on March 10.My personal opinion: NO at a Mosque in Ealing, there are so many in the neighbourds area that there's no need for another one in Ealing.

Valentina Dell'Aquila ● 6066d225 Comments

Agree completely. Taxpayer’s money (or public space) should no longer be spent subsidising peoples friendship with their imaginary deities. I extend that to both the Abrahamic and polytheistic religions. If people wish to meet, they can (so long as the police state doesn’t decide two’s company and three’s a crowd).

Tom Brook ● 6066d

Where can you find the consultation? - have looked on Ealing Council web but could not find it.

Ian Gardiner ● 6066d

It's a planning matter. Don't think the 'too many Mosques' argument would carry much weight because the sponsors of the application would hardly be hoping to build one if they didn't think there was demand.I don't believe any public money is being used to build the Mosque, or indeed any religious building in the borough, but please show confirmation of this and I would certainly object.

Andy Jones ● 6066d

Why not?  Peace and goodwill to all I say.  If parking and traffic is a problem, perhaps the worshippers could travel by bike wearing Burkhas?

G Lord ● 6066d

Andy's right.It should just be a planning matter.But of course, it won't be.Remember the hysteria that went on when the Northolt Village mosque was mooted some years ago, with a scummy so-called residents' group parading around with the union flag (and even allowing people with NF placards to join their demo).And, of course, it won't be long before the usual suspects start banging on about "ethnics" on this thread...

Robin Taylor ● 6066d

Does anyone know how many mosques there are in the borough???

Andy Wright ● 6066d

No I don't but re mosques and traffic chaos there is a big problem at the Islamic Centre on Singapore Road in West Ealing on Fridays with traffic and parking. There are plans to extend the mosque too - infact I think they are re-building it and enlarging it.  The first phase of the regeneration of Green Man Estate means knocking down Singapore Road multi-storey and no real parking provisions to cope with the ongoing issues.

Diane Gill ● 6066d

Ever thought that the traffic problem might be because there are not enough mosques?  Any way - I suspect the residents near Ealing Abbey may say the same of a Sunday - you wouldn't argue against another church I guess.  What is the problem in allowing followers of a religion a place to go to practice their religion - I myself am totally unreligious but fail to see why people get their knickers in a twist over the provision of mosques, gurdwaras, temples etc - strangely you never hear arguments against churches, unless of course they cater to the african congregation.

Damaris Lakin ● 6066d

The vast majority of churches in Ealing have been extant for a long time. Most residents would have taken up occupancy in the full knowledge of the existence of those buildings and the crowds(?) and traffic they attract.New religious places of worship will tend to be non-Judaeo-Christian as those structures have already been built (and closed).

Alan Brainsby ● 6066d

Diane is correct about the traffic chaos which happens every Friday lunchtime as 1,500 worshippers home in on the Islamic Mosque on Singapore Road.Reliable rumours exist that as well as the existing approved planning application to build a bigger, new Mosque on the site, it's expected that an even bigger Mosque is being planned. It would attract 3,000 worshippers every Friday lunchtime.Immediately adjacent to the Mosque is the 11.5 acre would-be redevelopment site of Green Man Lane Estate (GMLE). Are there any sensible plans in the Rydon/A2Domiion/Ealing Council proposals for GMLE to provide some parking space provision for any of these 3,000 visiting worshippers? The sad answer is no there aren't.The simple answer to the question of building and expanding places of worship (or places of sport, culture, work etc) is that they are acceptable as long they do not knowingly degrade any one else's quality of life or human rights.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6065d

Robin,amazing how other people are discussing the practicalities of this. Parking is an issue due to the chaos that often results from large groups of people visting a place. When you see that the ministry of sound is objecting to flats being built opposite the nightclub in case people who move into those flats then object to their license.

Peter Chadburn ● 6065d

If only the issue about traffic were true the mosque in Singapore road and at the bottom of Ecclestone Road in West Ealing is positivley heaving on a Friday so get absolute assurances before you believe there will be no traffic

Linda Bastow ● 6065d

Re  provide some parking space provision for any of these 3,000 visiting worshippers?          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      well bearing in mind Islam and Judaism are from the same source and to all intents and purposes the same religions in origin, Muslims should adopt what Jews do as far as visiting the synogogue is concerned, ie walk, which is the Judaic requirement. Admittedly I was informed by my Jewish friends in Southampton they would drive to the synogogue ( especially one in Bournemouth ), park round a corner and then comply with requirements by walking to the synogogue.  ( 1 2 3 )

Tony Price ● 6063d

Does anyone know what happened at the Jan 27 meeting?

ajit singh ● 6053d

I am totally against a mosque being built in this area,or any other.There are already enough mosques and they are unsightly especially as the designs do not conform to planning rules.eg.they do not blend in with the surrounding buildings.These mosques are inflamatory and intimidating to the average indiginous Briton since we have heard some of the hateful teachings held in these mosques which are derogatory and against this country.Many of the known terrorists attend the evil peachings given at meetings in some of the mosques where they also indocrinate muslim youths many of whom were involved in the 7/7.For all these reasons as well as the added problems of parking and traffic congestion I oppose the building of the proposed mosque. NO MORE MOSQUES.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6038d

To Damaris Lakin...Exuse me but Churches are Christian and this is a Christian country...not a muslim country.Also people worship in Churches but many mosques are used by extremists and others to preach hate against this country...and to indoctrinate muslim youths in the ways of evil....also the building designs do not conform to the planning rules that the rest of us have to adhere to....so no,we do n ot need more of these buildings which we find inflamatory and intimidating.

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6038d

Thanks for the rant, Marie.So, because you've got a personal phobia about Muslims, that means no mosques should be allowed?Simple solutions are always appealing to those with simple minds.

Robin Taylor ● 6038d

To Robin...simplicity is logicaal....also it's not a phobia..it's REALITY....open your eyes...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6037d

How dare you call local residents..scummy...just because they rightly objected to an unsightly building.NO MORE MOSQUES..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6037d

How dare you call local residents..scummy...just because they rightly objected to an unsightly building.NO MORE MOSQUES..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6037d

How dare you call local residents..scummy...just because they rightly objected to an unsightly building.NO MORE MOSQUES..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6037d

It is true that in some mosques extremists have been nurtured and developed but by having a blanket ban on all mosques being built is illogical.  I know muslims who attend mosques and cause no trouble in the society they live in; you cannot tar everyone with the same brush.

Diane Gill ● 6037d

Here we go again..... Robin accusing ppl of being racist.

Andy Wright ● 6037d

Wouldn't most people be against ANY religious structure of any faith in that location?The land would be better utilized for more housing for the unemployed and unemployable who choose to live in Ealing.

Alan Brainsby ● 6037d

Alan...it's not so much a case of objecting to a religious building.it's the kind of activities that are carried out and the use they are put to.Many mosques are used for preaching hatred and there are many clips of some that were obtained from the shocking and evil rantings in the East London mosque...they are dangerous breeding grounds for anti Britsh/western propaganda...Yes I'm sure the land could be put to much better use, though I'm not sure it should be specifically for unemployed people..many of whom could work instead of living off benefits......

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6037d

Diane...you are partly right, but unfortunately too many are bad and powerful and influence others so we cannot afford not to be vigilant...its a real concern ......

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6037d

"Here we go again..... Robin accusing ppl of being racist."Sorry, Andy, but I didn't use the word racist at all.

Robin Taylor ● 6037d

Marie Anne, I agree with your sentiments of the potential function of a structure.In the case of applications of this sort of building perhaps they should be built rather like English cathedrals - on a green, set back from the highway, and of solid construction to make them blast-proof, Coventry Cathedral excepted, but in that case the explosive devices were external.

Alan Brainsby ● 6037d

Thanks for the rant, Marie.So, because you've got a personal phobia about Muslims, that means no mosques should be allowed?Simple solutions are always appealing to those with simple mindsxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxRobin you and I, and everyone else knows what you mean so dont try to be smart and wriggle out.Just because you didnt actually use the word " racist " we all know what you mean !!

Andy Wright ● 6036d

Sorry, Peter, but one person who is certainly not discussing the practicalities of this issue is Marie Anne.Please take a look at her rantings throughout this thread: her objection to the proposed development is that she doesn't like the Muslim community.That cannot be the basis for rejecting a planning application, or do you really know nothing at all about planning law?

Robin Taylor ● 6036d

Following up on a few general points - there is currently only one Mosque (Masjid) in my Ealing North constituency - Prince Charles' frequent destination on Rowdell Road. The Horsenden Lane North application refers to a prayer room NOT a Mosque and the people that I met who simply wanted somewhere to meet and to pray together were almost without exception either born and educated in Greenford or long term residents.They also struck me as a decent,hardworking and deeply religious group of people anxious to work with local communities and the nearby All Hallows Church.Of course traffic generation is an issue and this was looked at in great depth by the Council's officers. I try to be objective in such matters but can't help remembering tales I heard as a youngster of the local reaction when workers on the GU canal decided to build a Roman Catholic Church !I entirely agree that there are some "preachers" who spew out hatred and bile but isn't it a good idea to work with decent moderate and inclusive Muslims rather than lump them all together? Equally - if we don't show that we take the concerns of the moderates seriously we hand a potentially lethal propaganda weapon to the really dangerous people.Oh yes - absolutely no public money at all is involved. These people care for their faith enough to raise the funds themselves - much as we Christians do!

Steve Pound ● 6031d

Best to err on the side of caution and our safety has to be paramount.Many mosques are used for indoctrination and anti-British preachings and many non-muslims find them intimidating.Re.Catholic church comment,this is a Christian  country and this issue should not be compared with the current application....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6031d

What is the difference between a prayer room and a mosque?

Alan Brainsby ● 6031d

What is the difference between a prayer room and a mosque?I should have added (but didn't): is it the same as a brick-built garden shed and a bungalow?Another question I might ask would be, if the application is approved; how long before alterations to add a cupola (and I'm not talking about cabooses) and other such features to be added?

Alan Brainsby ● 6031d

Regarding the "moderates" are we to believe that a structure for them will always remain so? This would suggest that "militant" mosques were always militant.Unfortunately some things copy the UK socialist party. The electorate is promised great undeliverables and mistakenly falls for it. Over time the electorate forgets what they voted for and the "loony left" creep in - by which time it's too late to reverse the process. I suppose with the present government it's not so much the loony as the money (doesn't quite rhyme) left.  And what is a moderate? Someone who detests our (Anglican) British way of life but tolerates it? One could include papists in that category - we have a long history of anti-government/monarchy popish plots.One might consider that we don't hear of Baptist bombers, Elim Church extremists, Free Church fundamentalists, Methodist militants, and so on.

Alan Brainsby ● 6029d

Andy...it's not a phobia but a real fear and dread of the kind of evil they purpetrate and what they still threaten to inflict on the world.People seem to have a very short memory and turn a blind eye.Many people live by their own religious beliefs but they don't impose on them on others.Religion should a private and personal matter and not something that should affect the daily lives of others not of their faith,or in the workplace.No one'religion' should be allowed special treatment eg.exemptions re.dress codes at work,or claim to be the only true one condemning all others.Therefore,whatever their practices these should be carried out in private.Would we be allowed to build a Church or outwardly practice our Christian faith in an Islaamic country....answer is NO...so we should operate the same criteria here...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6029d

There are too many "brushes' to ignore.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6029d

It's great the way that you sit on the fence.

G Lord ● 6029d

It's great the way that you sit on the fence.

G Lord ● 6029d

Any chance of a list of the other Mosques in the area as I haven't seen them and I'm there every day!All the best,Steve Pound.

Steve Pound ● 6027d

Ever heard of Southall ???

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6027d

Southall is physically as far away from North Greenford as it is possible to be while remaining within the borders of the glorious Borough of Ealing.My fundamental point is that people may well have worries and fears that are stimulated or inspired by Islam but we're not going to turn the world clock to a time before the Prophet Mohammed so we have some pretty serious matters to consider in the here and now.If you believe that every Muslim is a lethal threat - as many believed that Catholics were once - then I can't help you. If you believe that there is good and evil in every community and  faith group then surely it is incumbent on people of good will to encourage and support those who do subscribe to the values of decency, democracy and respect.If we don't work with the good then we hand the perfect recruiting tool to those who wish us ill.I'm a born and bred west London Christian who knew little or nothing about Islam except from a very European perspective and often through the prism of boyhood novels of the crusades.I've taken the time and trouble to study a little of Islam and those who follow it's teachings and - surprise,surprise, there are as many shades of opinion as can be found in Christianity.The community behind the North Greenford application strike me as a quiet, respectful and prayerful group who deserve far better than to be seen as Abu Hamza jihadis in waiting.Knowledge is the antedote to fear and inclusion - on both sides - is the way to achieve a decent society for us all.Now - off to catch the last tube back from Westminster!Steve Pound.

Steve Pound ● 6027d

We need to deal with things as they are today,not hundreds of years ago.The reality is that integration does not work because ethnics don't want to embrace British life.Because of their huge numbers,they are able to form their own  communities independantly in order to live out their cultures.Christians in this country understandably feel alienated and just today in the news we have an example of the gross injustice towards Christians.I refer to the admirable British Christian nurse whose job of 30years is now in jeopardy because she wore a small cross at work.How can this be right when muslims can wear all kinds if garb and body decorations at work without obstruction even when there is a strict uniform code.There is something very wrong in this and we should not have to defend our own Christianity in this Christian country.If we went to an Islaamic country could we outwardly practice our faith or wear religious symbols.It's sad but true that we have to feel like outcasts in our own country.Surely this case speaks volumes and exposes the anti-British and anti Christian element which is blatantly discriminatory...and this is the REALITY of life in this country.... 

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6027d

Marie Anne religious discrimination legislation is for all religions - christinaity is covered too.  The nurse in question is taking her case to an Employment Tribunal so shall we see how she gets on first? If the risk assessment deemed her cross 'a risk' and anyone else's necklaces/ earrings etc also a risk then clearly she would not be discriminated against by dint of the fact it was a cross.

Diane Gill ● 6026d

I have to agree with Diane - we should wait to see what the outcome is. I have to say Marie Anne, you sound like one of those radical fanatics. Not everyone who has a different faith to you is intent on forcing their particular beliefs on all and sundry. I think you should be a bit more moderate in your outlook and not so xenophobic.

J Smith ● 6026d

You sound as fanatical and dangerous as the people you scorn. Anyway, this is a secular country, not Christian.

Ash Parks ● 6026d

Sorry, my previous post is to Marie Anne O'Connell, who seems to think all Muslims are suicide bombers, in the same way all Roman Catholic Priests rape children and get away with it.

Ash Parks ● 6026d

I trust Ash your remarks were meant for Marie Anne and not me!

J Smith ● 6026d

Correct, and I have posted again to further understanding of such.

Ash Parks ● 6026d

Beg to differ. My niece lives in Bahrain. She is free to do as she likes and there is a church there. My cousin lives in Spain and has done for years. She has no Spanish friends, nor does she speak Spanish. We have always lived in large colonies abroad and have created mini Englands all over the place. And no, we are rarely hounded for it. We cannot complain bout others not integrating when we are one of the worst offenders.

Penny Crocker ● 6026d

Well said, Penny.

Ash Parks ● 6026d

Gee Lord, please change the record...or at least define the fence.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6026d

For most of the last 150 years the level of English emigration has been around 10% of the population.The major difference between our emigration and that of incomers is that we don't, and can't, go to another country to pick up benefits. How many English have successfully claimed asylum in a foreign land in the last 20 years?I am not suggesting all incomers are here for the benefits but free money must be quite an incentive otherwise they would all be in Spain or Bahrain, wouldn't they?Or can someone give me a better reason?

Alan Brainsby ● 6026d

Excellent posts from Steve, Diane, F Stone, Ash, Penny & G Lord.My only objection to what you have to say is that you are far, far too polite in dealing with Marie.Marie says: "The reality is that integration does not work because ethnics don't want to embrace British life."Her use of the term "ethnics" reflects upon her own ignorance. It is a meaningless word.Marie also says: "Because of their huge numbers,they are able to form their own  communities independantly(sic)"Maybe so, but perhaps they become insular as a defensive reaction to the bigotry and hostility they have received from racists like you.It was because of the demands of the racist all-white "Southall Residents Association" that Asian kids were bussed out of Southall in the 1960s and 1970s. It was a section of the white population who demanded segregation and who wanted different racial groups to live independently of one another.Btw., I am a white resident of Southall, and I find the Muslim community very easy to live with.Marie is quite possibly the most ignorant and stupid poster on this forum (with the obvious exception of Tony Price). Oh, and by the way Marie, if you're a Christian then I thank god I'm an atheist.

Robin Taylor ● 6026d

Asylum from what, exactly?

Ash Parks ● 6025d

Robin, while I appreciate your sentiment, you should not enter into a battle of wit with an unarmed opponent.It is clear Marie Anne is ignorant and continues to feed her ignorance with views she agrees with. This country has its fair share of people like that and they are probably happy that way. The problem is that her ignorance has led to prejudice without foundation, which makes me very angry, but you will not convince her otherwise. It is because of fear, and possibly lack of reasoning ability, compounded by poor emotional intelligence.

Ash Parks ● 6025d

I've never participated in one of these exercises before but surely it is a better option to try to persuade in a well mannered way than by calling into question the intelligence of participants?I profoundly disagree with some of the comments made by certain people but feel that reinforcing the entrenched antagonisms is a fairly sterile exercise!

Steve Pound ● 6025d

Good point, Steve, although if you had come up against the late B.F. and his acolytes (he of NVRA fame) you would have quickly discovered that "well mannered" persuasion was not possible.Good luck for May 6th, btw.

Robin Taylor ● 6025d

Fair point, Steve. Although I did make a point myself that persuasion was, in itself, pointless in this case, as the poster seemed belligerent and dogmatic in the extreme. I find the views expressed and their underpinning ignorance entirely abhorrent and probably dangerous as they are almost certainly being disseminated to other impressionable people.Nevertheless, my post was a bit personal, and for that I apologise.

Ash Parks ● 6025d

Asylum from what...?The simple answer is "precisely".I can't think of any reason why an English citizen would need to claim asylum.

Alan Brainsby ● 6025d

The previous three posts go some way to demonstrating why one of those posters is a politician and two are not.

Alan Brainsby ● 6025d

.........but they chase different things. In the Middle East it's money....tax free and a lifestyle which isn't affordable here. In Spain, it's usually the weather. Illustrates the point perfectly that we all aspire to different and 'better' things. Just going back to Bahrain for a second. My niece's children were christened in Bahrain in a church and attend a church school. They are free to do so.

Penny Crocker ● 6024d

Bahrain is not Saudi Arabia or several other Middle Eastern states.Incidentally, a "sorcerer" is to be decapitated in Saudi this week:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8598134.stm BTW What happened to Mystic Meg?

Alan Brainsby ● 6024d

Interesting that you accept the extreme belligerence and dogmatism of religion but are filled with righteous indignation should it be from someone who has a different opinion to your own. And though I would like to agree with Steve Pound on the importance of education, faith and knowledge are by definition, mutually exclusive.

Tom Brook ● 6024d

Care to explain your remark, Alan Brainsby? I'm interested as to why you would make such an assumption.

Ash Parks ● 6024d

Care to explain your remark, Alan Brainsby?Certainly.Rather than just throwing remarks without justification in the vein of "I don't like what you state therefore I disagree with you" there is no attempt at discussion. This is a forum, a place where matters are discussed. Sometimes matters are serious, sometimes they are not. Heckling can be good or bad, and is often quite welcome, but in either case shouldn't be abusive, it is best used to wrong-foot and individual. I am quite sure the venerable, sorry, honourable member for Ealing North would agree.If a poster makes a statement, with or without justification, it is far better to respond with a counter-argument or to ascertain why the statement was made. To merely wave the "racist" card is not enough.I am quite sure that most of us, within the forum and elsewhere, are not against immigration as such. But immigration is comparable to single-parent families. Does one lump a father who lost his wife in childbirth in the same category as an unmarried teenage girl on her third child? I think not.The same is true with immigrants. This government may well have come up with a points system for non-EU immigrants, but did it a bit late. And then there's always the asylum card which is the root of the problem.When a country can't provide sufficient jobs and infrastructure for its existing population (regardless of origin) it has surely lost its way. This is why some of us make a stand because it is a local issue.I think all of us are aware of the economic problems ahead but if this General Election were purely based on immigration policies then the result would be most interesting.

Alan Brainsby ● 6024d

Thank you Alan, that sort of clarifies what you said. I take it to mean then, that you believe politicians never make abusive or personal attacks and always justify their remarks.I understand your point of view on the immigration issue too.Thanks.

Ash Parks ● 6024d

Thanks Ash.I agree with what you suggest about politicians, regardless of flavour. It shows that some aren't up to the job.I'm glad we "agree to possibly disagree" on the other issue.

Alan Brainsby ● 6024d

It is of course possible we may disagree on some details, Alan, but I sense you have a fairly balanced view of the issues surrounding immigration. One can not blame an immigrant for taking advantage of the situation our government has created for him. Immigration has been very badly handled. Successive government has created the situation where many legal immigrants and people seeking asylum in the UK are treated inhumanely. They have allowed economic migration of a sort that does not benefit our society and economy, even allowing our own citizens, some of whom purport to represent us in parliament, to avoid paying taxes. It is inequitable. The problem this can create is that some people who consider themselves indigenous to the UK blame the immigrants, not government policy. Many react like frightened animals, every shadow or movement at their cave entrance is a threat to their comfort and wellbeing. It is the inhumanity and grossly disproportionate nature of these base reactions that disturbs me so greatly. It demonstrates that humans really are only a small step from reduction to brutality and savagery given certain conditions. I find some of the reaction to immigration issues deeply troubling. It is as though some people are incapable of basic research and rational thought.

Ash Parks ● 6024d

Well stated, and close to my opinion.

Alan Brainsby ● 6024d

A ridiculous and ignorant analagy.....just to let you know my friend was killed in the 9/11 and that's not phobic.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6024d

It is terrile that you lost a friend during 9/11. So many of us did. A close family friend was there and only by a whisper did she and her fiance survive. They did however have to witness the aftermath of having to leave the office building once they were given the "all clear" by the rescue services. They have not turned into bitter xenophobic fanatics as a result of small minority of people with a different faith.As I said before not everyone with a differenct faith to you is plotting against you as you seem to believe.I come from an area where the majority of people were either C of E or RC and since moving here just over 2 years ago the religious mix is obviously different. However I have seen how well everyone gets on here and how everyone, regardless of their beliefs contributes to the sense of community and belonging.

J Smith ● 6023d

Thanks...as you said in your area people get on..it's probably because religion is something they deal with in private and not imposed or in the faces of those around or at work.It's just that Islaam issues seem to be in the forefront 24/7 ..I work in a very large environment (airport) with many and diverse colleagues but religion is not something laboured 24/7.No-one has ever discussed my religion with me beause they don't know what my beliefs are..that's because it's my business and I practice in private and don't press my views on others..result...HARMONY....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6023d

Not exactly a small minority ...and there have been other aimilar attempts of the same and probably being plotted as we speak...very worrying....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6023d

Thank goodness for a sensible response.  So much hot air in this "debate".

Bernice Wolfenden ● 6023d

Maybe so, but it still doesn't mean that every religious building (regardless of faith) is full of people who are actively plotting against people of different faiths. A bit more perspective and less paranoia please.

J Smith ● 6023d

Quite right.

Bernice Wolfenden ● 6023d

It's  not paranoia,just being a realist and responding to those who are blind and refuse to face facts...hard to believe people are so naive....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6023d

Sorry to say, I am not naive at all but just refuse to be blinded by xenophobia and paranoia that you seem to live by. I am surprised that you actually step foot out of your house.Yes there are people out there that want to do harm, I just believe that it isn't every single person I meet in the street or those who go to religious services or congregate in groups. Perhaps you should recall that Christians in the name of religion have also committed atrocities in the past.Something for you to think about.

J Smith ● 6023d

All I think about is that it is those with your views are the reason we have such a huge immigration problem and I hope you don't live to regret your fairytale ethics...labels don't wash with me....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6023d

No fairytales here or rose coloured glasses. Am just aware that the views you are expressing are as dangerous as those of religious fanatics.I know there are dangerous people out there and yes they could possibly be in the next street but that doesn't mean that everyone is a potential threat.

J Smith ● 6023d

How can awareness of real proven and obvious potentially evil purpetrators of terror be dangerous...it's those with "head in the sand" syndrome who are dangerous since they accomodate the furtherence of such actvities.

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6023d

01/04/10 21:58:00  post was me! Not r!I don't believe in being that anonymous, at least a capital R. :)

Alan Brainsby ● 6023d

"How can awareness of real proven and obvious potentially evil purpetrators of terror be dangerous..."You're so right, Marie.There's an evil, scummy organisation called the BNP. It's a Nazi organisation and it terrorises people. Sadly, it's allowed to operate in our society. One of its members, David Copeland, went around London setting off nail bombs (murdering and injuring dozens of innocent people in the process). Many other members of the BNP and NF have been convicted of violent acts.You're so right when you say that those who refuse to deal with this evil have "head in the sand" syndrome.

Robin Taylor ● 6023d

I think its a fair statement to say that the spate of terrorist attacks that have been happening have been commited in the name of Islam and carried out by muslims.....its not racist to state facts Robin...its that simple.

Andy Wright ● 6022d

Of course one might ask why the BNP, or its predecessors, was formed in the first place.Another question might be why it is so popular with ex-Labour voters.

Alan Brainsby ● 6022d

Absolutely...but these simpleton "do gooders' are too blind to see and can't see the wood for the trees....and there are lots of trees............!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

I know plenty about planning law having been through the process.You should know that one of the main crietria is that the external design of the proposed building needs to blend in with the surrounding buiding styles.....a very pracical point..I rest my case....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

"I think its a fair statement to say that the spate of terrorist attacks that have been happening have been commited in the name of Islam and carried out by muslims"I see, so nail bomber David Copeland and all the rest of the BNP nutters are Muslims are they, Andy?You really are a plonker, aren't you?

Robin Taylor ● 6021d

Robin if you actually understood the english language AND read my post properly you would have identified the word " spate"The Collins dictionary denotes the word spate as the following....Fast flow, rush or outpouring.Now the operative words here are fast flow and rush.How many terrorist attacks have their been in the name of Islam??  Lets look at this in some detail11-Dec-94 in the Philippines,Small bomb on Philippines Airlines flight; 1 Japanese businessman killed, 10 people injured29-Jul-95 France (Paris and Lyon) 4-month bombing campaign. Attacks on the Paris metro, the Arc de Triomphe and outside a Jewish school in Lyon13-Nov-95 Saudi Arabia (Riyadh) Car bombs at military compound 18-Sep-97 Egypt(Cairo) Gunmen attack a tourist bus.  9 Germans and 1 Egyptian killed 17-Nov-97 Egypt (Luxor) Gunmen attack tourists. c.70 killed 7-Aug-98 Kenya (Nairobi) and Tanzania (Dar-es-Salaam) Truck bomb attack against US embassies. Over 200 people killed, thousands injured 12-Oct-00 Yemen Boat bomb attack on the USS Cole in the port of Aden. 17 US soldiers killed, 39 wounded. 11-Sep-01 USA (New York and Washington) Hijacked planes crashed into the two World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. A fourth plane crashes into a field in Pittsburgh. c. 3000 killed 11-Apr-02 Tunisia Vehicle bomb attack against a synagogue on the resort island of Djerba. c.21 killed 8-May-02 Pakistan (Karachi) Bomb attack against bus carrying French engineers near Sheraton Hotel 14-Jun-02 Pakistan (Karachi) Truck bomb attack against US Consulate. 12 killed, 51 injured 6-Oct-02 Yemen Boat bomb attack against French oil tanker MV Limburg off Ash Shahir port. 1 killed 12-Oct-02 Indonesia (Bali) Attacks against US Consulate, Sari Club and Paddy’s Bar. 202 killed, including 26 Britons 28-Nov-02 Kenya (Mombasa) Attack on an Israeli-owned hotel. 12 killed. Surface-to-air missile launched at Israeli airliner the same day. 12-May-03 Saudi Arabia (Riyadh) Attacks at 3 compounds housing expatriates.  Over 30 killed 16-May-03 Morocco (Casablanca) Multiple suicide bombings against Spanish club, hotel and sites.  45 dead, c.100 injured 5-Aug-03 Indonesia Vehicle bomb attack against Marriott Hotel.  c. 12 killed, 100 injured 8-Nov-03 Saudi Arabia (Riyadh) Major vehicle bomb attack against residential compound housing mainly expatriate workers from other Arab countries. 17 killed, over 80 injured 15-Nov-03 Turkey (Istanbul) 2 vehicle bomb attacks at Jewish synagogues 20-Nov-03 Turkey (Istanbul) 2 vehicle bombs at HSBC Bank and British Consulate. Together with 15 Nov attack, over 60 people killed (including 2 Britons 11-Mar-04 Spain (Madrid) Bomb attacks against 4 trains. Terrorists blew themselves up when confronted by police.  199 killed 1-May-04 Saudi Arabia (Yanbu) Attack on expatriate oil workers. 6 foreign nationals and 1 Saudi killed 30-May-05 Saudi Arabia (Al Khobar) 4 attacks in Al Khobbar target oil companies and compound9-Sep-04 Indonesia (Jakarta) Vehicle bomb outside Australian Embassy. 9 killed, over 100 injured8-Oct-04 Egypt Large explosions at Hilton Hotel in Taba and at 2 campsites in the Sinai area. Over 30 killed 28-Oct-04 Pakistan (Islamabad) Explosion at Marriott Hotel. 7 injured 19-Mar-05 Qatar (Doha) Vehicle bomb attack outside the Doha Players’ Theatre.  1 (British national) killed, 12 injured 07-Apr-05 Egypt (Cairo) Attack near tourist bazaar in Cairo.  2 French nationals and one American killed,  c.18 injured 30-Apr-05 Egypt (Cairo) Tourist bus fired on in Cairo. 8 injured 07-Jul-05 UK (London) 4 explosions - 3 in tube trains, one in bus.  At least 52 dead, 700 injured The reason Copeland did it as he saw himslef as, and I quote, "a righteous messenger from God".  Copeland was just one man with little resources and probably had mental problem.The list I have provided you with is FACT and attacks carried out by Al Qaida and only Al Qaida.  It has not covered all the other terrorist groups.... AND the list only covers up to 2005.After I found THIS MANY I simply gave up looking !Seems to me that the BNP and Copeland fade in to insignificance in comparrison Robin.Whose the plonker now???

Andy Wright ● 6021d

Robin if you actually understood the english language AND read my post properly you would have identified the word " spate"The Collins dictionary denotes the word spate as the following....Fast flow, rush or outpouring.Now the operative words here are fast flow and rush.How many terrorist attacks have their been in the name of Islam??  Lets look at this in some detail11-Dec-94 in the Philippines,Small bomb on Philippines Airlines flight; 1 Japanese businessman killed, 10 people injured29-Jul-95France (Paris and Lyon)4-month bombing campaign. Attacks on the Paris metro, the Arc de Triomphe and outside a Jewish school in Lyon13-Nov-95Saudi Arabia (Riyadh)Car bombs at military compound18-Sep-97Egypt(Cairo)Gunmen attack a tourist bus.  9 Germans and 1 Egyptian killed17-Nov-97Egypt (Luxor)Gunmen attack tourists. c.70 killed7-Aug-98Kenya (Nairobi) and Tanzania (Dar-es-Salaam)Truck bomb attack against US embassies. Over 200 people killed, thousands injured12-Oct-00YemenBoat bomb attack on the USS Cole in the port of Aden. 17 US soldiers killed, 39 wounded.11-Sep-01USA (New York and Washington)Hijacked planes crashed into the two World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. A fourth plane crashes into a field in Pittsburgh. c. 3000 killed11-Apr-02TunisiaVehicle bomb attack against a synagogue on the resort island of Djerba. c.21 killed8-May-02Pakistan (Karachi)Bomb attack against bus carrying French engineers near Sheraton Hotel14-Jun-02Pakistan (Karachi)Truck bomb attack against US Consulate. 12 killed, 51 injured6-Oct-02YemenBoat bomb attack against French oil tanker MV Limburg off Ash Shahir port. 1 killed12-Oct-02Indonesia (Bali)Attacks against US Consulate, Sari Club and Paddy’s Bar. 202 killed, including 26 Britons28-Nov-02Kenya (Mombasa)Attack on an Israeli-owned hotel. 12 killed. Surface-to-air missile launched at Israeli airliner the same day.12-May-03Saudi Arabia (Riyadh)Attacks at 3 compounds housing expatriates.  Over 30 killed16-May-03Morocco (Casablanca)Multiple suicide bombings against Spanish club, hotel and sites.  45 dead, c.100 injured5-Aug-03IndonesiaVehicle bomb attack against Marriott Hotel.  c. 12 killed, 100 injured8-Nov-03Saudi Arabia (Riyadh)Major vehicle bomb attack against residential compound housing mainly expatriate workers from other Arab countries. 17 killed, over 80 injured15-Nov-03Turkey (Istanbul)2 vehicle bomb attacks at Jewish synagogues20-Nov-03Turkey (Istanbul)2 vehicle bombs at HSBC Bank and British Consulate. Together with 15 Nov attack, over 60 people killed (including 2 Britons11-Mar-04Spain (Madrid)Bomb attacks against 4 trains. Terrorists blew themselves up when confronted by police.  199 killed1-May-04Saudi Arabia (Yanbu)Attack on expatriate oil workers. 6 foreign nationals and 1 Saudi killed30-May-05Saudi Arabia (Al Khobar)4 attacks in Al Khobbar target oil companies and compound9-Sep-04Indonesia (Jakarta)Vehicle bomb outside Australian Embassy. 9 killed, over 100 injured8-Oct-04EgyptLarge explosions at Hilton Hotel in Taba and at 2 campsites in the Sinai area. Over 30 killed28-Oct-04Pakistan (Islamabad)Explosion at Marriott Hotel. 7 injured19-Mar-05Qatar (Doha)Vehicle bomb attack outside the Doha Players’ Theatre.  1 (British national) killed, 12 injured07-Apr-05Egypt (Cairo)Attack near tourist bazaar in Cairo.  2 French nationals and one American killed,  c.18 injured30-Apr-05Egypt (Cairo)Tourist bus fired on in Cairo. 8 injured07-Jul-05UK (London)4 explosions - 3 in tube trains, one in bus.  At least 52 dead, 700 injuredThe reason Copeland did it as he saw himslef as, and I quote, "a righteous messenger from God".  Copeland was just one man with little resources and probably had mental problem.The list I have provided you with is FACT and attacks carried out by Al Qaida and only Al Qaida.  It has not covered all the other terrorist groups.... AND the list only covers up to 2005.After I found THIS MANY I simply gave up looking !Seems to me that the BNP and Copeland fade in to insignificance in comparrison Robin.Whose the plonker now???

Andy Wright ● 6021d

"After I found THIS MANY I simply gave up looking !Seems to me that the BNP and Copeland fade in to insignificance in comparrison Robin.Whose the plonker now???"You're the plonker, Andy.Since you've obviously got nothing better to do that spend your Easter Day researching examples of so-called Islamic terrorism, why don't you also research how many Jews were killed by the Christian called Adolf Hitler (and all because of the myth that the Jews killed Christ)?You see, Andy, the BNP are followers of Hitler.Or maybe you, like them, dispute the historical validity of the Holocaust?

Robin Taylor ● 6021d

Since you've obviously got nothing better to do that spend your Easter Day researching examples of so-called Islamic terrorism, why don't you also research how many Jews were killed by the Christian called Adolf Hitler (and all because of the myth that the Jews killed Christ)?You see, Andy, the BNP are followers of Hitler.Or maybe you, like them, dispute the historical validity of the Holocaust?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxRobin all you do is wriggle to get out of situations you put yourself in.And you keep banging on about stuff that happened before most of us were even born.Christ and the jews,Hitler was nearly 70 years ago.... my god man we live in THIS CENTURY or are you so stupid you cant read a calendar???I dont dispute the Holocaust you pathetic, spineless fraction of a man.Its very simple Robin. All the events I FACTUALLY LISTED ( even went to the time and trouble of putting the dates because I know you have trouble with such a tricky concept ) were commited by muslims.... TRUE OR FALSE???I wonder how many of those individuals are now here in the UK claiming benefits.... The ones you seem to love so much !

Andy Wright ● 6021d

And for your information Robin, it took MINUTES to find that info and put it up on here.

Andy Wright ● 6021d

Not all muslims are terrorists.....but all terrorists are muslim.Robin I hope you will enjoy living in this muslim country further on in time and that you will embrace Shariah laws etc......there's none so blind as those who will not see.Hmm..a western couple get jail in Dubai for a kiss in public and for 'offending' someone....but it's ok for muslims to spout venom on placards on our streets...in the name of free speech.....well that offends me....a British nurse can't wear a small Christian cross...but muslims can work in all kinds of non-uniform garb,robes,scarves,bangles etc......get with it......

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6021d

He didn't blow planes out of the sky....slightly stupid analagy....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6021d

"He didn't blow planes out of the sky....slightly stupid analagy...."Oh, I see, so you're an apologist for Hitler.Now why aren't I surprised?

Robin Taylor ● 6021d

"Its very simple Robin."No, Andy, YOU'RE very simple.

Robin Taylor ● 6021d

Here we go again.... Robin living in the past, getting to be a habbit Robbin.

Andy Wright ● 6021d

Robin I know why you live in Southall. Lets face it, its the LAST place a terrorist attack will happen.

Andy Wright ● 6021d

Robin I know why you live in Southall. Lets face it, its the LAST place a terrorist attack will happen.

Andy Wright ● 6021d

Every time it gets hot for you on here all you EVER DO  is resort no name calling Robbin.Nothing very smart or clever about that is there???Your the simple one, your the one who never seems to have an answer lol.

Andy Wright ● 6021d

"Your(sic) the simple one, your(sic) the one who never seems to have an answer lol."For god's sake, Andy, do try to use the English language properly.

Robin Taylor ● 6021d

"Robin I know why you live in Southall. Lets face it, its the LAST place a terrorist attack will happen."Quite the contrary, Southall was next on the list of places which the BNP nailbomber was going to target... but sadly for people of your ilk, he was nabbed first.

Robin Taylor ● 6021d

Back to the origin of this thread...whether we like to admit it or not,Islaam is on a mission to take over the world and they are having no trouble achieving  their goal here unless they are stopped..This country is falling over backwards to assist them-they are given special dispensations and are able to flout laws that the rest of us have to adhere to.Denmark,Belgium etc. have seen the light and clamped down on them and we should do the same.You only have to look at the news today re.the couple in Dubai jaied for a petty "offence" compared to what muslms do here.They are growing in strength and numbers and the atrocities they have committed are common knowledge.It's futile to argue "not all of them are terrorists" since that holds no conviction...it only takes one to blow up a plane..they are problably working on the next operation as we speak...the last one being Christmas Day.Do none of you listen to the news...but there's none as deaf as those who don't want to hear.Some mosques are used for nurturing further young insurgents...well known FACT...and there are already enough of them..so for all these and more reasons...I say...no  more  mosques....WAKE UP BRITAIN.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

Robin is that the BEST you can do???Address the issues I have raised or GO AWAY!

Andy Wright ● 6020d

Marie,Are you per chance a member of the BNP - and if so, how much do they pay you to spam your crap across this forum?

Robin Taylor ● 6020d

Robin stop with the accusations and and come up with some FACTUAL arguement/reason as to why your right....if you can???

Andy Wright ● 6020d

This is one of the most ridiculous threads I think I've come across. It is essentially a group of people getting angry and insulting at each other while discussing something they know nothing about and have no balanced view of. Opinion based on NOTHING.Rubbish, nothing to learn here, I've got nothing to add either, it is impossible to encourage fanatics to learn about anything other than about fuel for their fanaticism. How depressing.

Ash Parks ● 6020d

Ash thats not entirely true.To say that people know nothing about whats happening is wrong.Marie O'connell rightly pointed out about planning laws and that new buildings/structures must be in keeping with the existing buildings.  I thought that was a factual statement.On that issue a balanced view is not needed as those are the regulations stipulated by the law, and clearly a mosque ( if designed to a traditional design ) is not in keeping.Peoples opinions are based on personal experiences,what they see on the news,the papers and whats happening in their local area so  who are you to judge wether or not its a valid point or arguement???Its not fanatical to care deeply about whats happens to the UK.

Andy Wright ● 6020d

Here you go again Robin,when the truth hits and you haven't got an intelligent response,you resort to insults and name calling....something like your muslim neighbours are accustomed to doing....it's folks like you that have nothing constructive to say.....DAAAHHH

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

What twaddle you waste computer time with.You really have nothing intelligent to say.....so say nothing and save your face...Hitler...what the heck is that about..people are just responding to the prospect of another mosque being built.....and we say...NOOOO nothing to do with Hiteler...idiot..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

Marie, you say you are a Christian but how can that be with you dripping venom in every sentence. I am surprised they let you into a church with so much hatred inside you.To recap:We live in a multicultural society. On a whole the majority of the population get on well together.There is a minority in each faith (Christians included, please don't for get that too Marie)which create dischord and unrest. Not every person of an ethnic minority is a potential threat to this country. Many have escaped from countries where they were persecuted.I am well aware that there is religious dischord between this country's different cultures as are other people in this forum. As to what the solution can be, perhaps a better understanding of each other faiths and more tolerance on all sides.The BBC programme last night highlighted a point that shows how dischord can start - local authorities restricting what can and cannot be celebrated, what can and cannot be worn etc. If this did not happen as much then perhaps it would reduce unrest.

J Smith ● 6020d

Not venom...but FACTS.It's fanciful illusion to think that all the cultures get on..they just stick together to live out their own diverse cultures which have no relation to life in Britain.Others especially muslims don't want to understand any other faith.They live by ancient religious dictate which has no relevance to life today here...yet we are all under threat from such dogmatic intolerant ethics.. Why are muslim issues in our face 24/7 ?? We don't hear about other faiths since religion for most is something practiced in private.It should not impact on others and especially not in the work place, which is where there is so much diparegy.Just look at the news this week alone..the nurse wuth the cross but muslims can flout same rules..the couple being jailed in Dubai..yet muslims here spout threatening venom on placards on our streets...the corrupt policeman....the list goes on yet this country is afraid of them and falls over backwards to placate them.Travelling through airports has become a nightmare with all the extra security measures..not to mention the huge cost..all because of terrorism... On my way to work yesterday I was listening to LBC on the radio and in a lighthearted banter by the presenters,the topic was the religious significance of Easter Sunday..and one of the presenters said.."really,this is more of a muslim country" ....they are not tolerant...it's a case of their way or no way...Truth is Christians are being persecuted and the more extreme faiths are dominant and demand acceptance......Of course it would be ideal if all sections could exist in harmony...but some are treated more equally than others and it's the loudest that gets most attention....IT'S LIFE TODAY IN BRITAIN AND IT ISN'T COMFORTABLE.....Wake up amd smell the coffee.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

Another twisted rant from Maria. She has no friends so she spends all her time on here bitching about anyone that's different to her."It's fanciful illusion to think that all the cultures get on"You're dead right there. Your racist culture is completely incompatible with my anti-racist culture."Others especially muslims don't want to understand any other faith."Well since you're a Christian, what do you understand about other faiths - e.g. Hinduism? Not a lot, I bet."They live by ancient religious dictate which has no relevance to life today here...yet we are all under threat from such dogmatic intolerant ethics.."What, you mean like my friend Mr Ahmad, who has a whopping great Chrismas tree in his front room from mid-November, and who has a policy of never hitting his kids?"Why are muslim issues in our face 24/7 ??"Because the people who publish tabloid newspapers know that bigots like you are obsessed with them. "We don't hear about other faiths since religion for most is something practiced in private.It should not impact on others and especially not in the work place"You're joking, aren't you? After all the controversy about a Christian woman insisting on breaking health and safety rules by wearing a cross at work, another Christian woman who insisted on praying for a patient who was not a believer, and to top it all you spamming the forum with your racist Christian fundamentalist bulls***, and you claim to only practice it in private?"the corrupt policeman"Presumably you're talking about all of the white Christian police officers who were charged with perverting the course of justice after they framed four black men for the motorway murders even though witness statements had said the culprits were white."Truth is Christians are being persecuted and the more extreme faiths are dominant and demand acceptance......"Your brand of Christianity sounds pretty "extreme" to me. And if you think that other faiths are "dominant", perhaps you can explain why there are thousands of taxpayer-funded Christian denominational schools in this country - indoctrinating kids with YOUR religion - and financed by atheist taxpayers like ME. Your religion has far too much privilege and favourable treatment for you to start bleating about how you're "persecuted"."but some are treated more equally than others and it's the loudest that gets most attention."Yeah, well you're proof of that, you've got the loudest mouth on this forum."IT'S LIFE TODAY IN BRITAIN AND IT ISN'T COMFORTABLE"Oh, I'm VERY comfortable as a white English resident of the fantastic, interesting, lively, colourful multi-cultural multi-racial town of Southall, and I thank god we don't have your sort living here.

Robin Taylor ● 6020d

Well, Marie, the last person to lead a campaign against the building of a mosque in Ealing (it was in Northolt Village, in fact) was an admirer of Hitler - and that's according to what his own inlaws tell me!

Robin Taylor ● 6020d

Wake up Robin,Hitler has been gone over 70 years....you are living in the past like your neighbours  and you need to catch up with the present....wakey wakey it's  2010.

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

Wake up Robin,Hitler has been gone over 70 years....you are living in the past like your neighbours  and you need to catch up with the present....wakey wakey it's  2010. You have a real phobia about Hitler.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

You are at it again Robin,casting insults and labels when you can't uphold your end.You are one of those repulsive anti-British,anti-Christian traitors "tryng to be do-gooder"  Here's a challenge for you...what is your reponnse to this question. ....Why should a British Christian nurse of 30 years not be allowed to wear a small cross which she has worn at her job for 30 years when a  muslim can wear long robes,all kinds of other garbs,scarves etc...all of which are a far greater "elf-and-safety" risk.????? Try to give an intelligent answer without decending  meaningless insults...by the way are you one of the dotty PC bigade..?? Also by the way, I have more friends of all kinds that I am able to keep up with...I see a lot of diverse people working at an airport !!!!!!Regarding understanding other faiths,I have many other faith friends but we don't threaten each other or shove our beiefs in each others faces 24/7....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

Sorry Robin, I forgot to put another question to you..here goes......what do you think of the British couple in Dubai being jailed for a supposed 'indecency' complaint made by a kid.....yet muslims can stand on our streets with hateful placards spouting death and destruction...all over some petty cartoons which weren't even done in this country......I suppose you would agree to having shariah laws here ?????...again try to respond without using insults...that's always a sign of defeat !!!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

Robin to clarify re.the corrupt policeman...no, I meant Mr.Ali Dizaei who single handedly brought the police to its knees with his corruption,scammimg thousands of pounds of our tax money,pulling the race card all for his own gain.Yeah he was caught but he is only the tip of the iceberg....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

"no, I meant Mr.Ali Dizaei"Of course you did, Marie.After all, you would never object to any of the thousands of bent coppers who are white, would you?

Robin Taylor ● 6020d

"Wake up Robin,Hitler has been gone over 70 years"Yes he has, but that doesn't stop people of all your ilk admiring him.

Robin Taylor ● 6020d

I've never mentioned him he's your nemesis....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6019d

I notice you haven't attempted to answer my questions....by the way-is your real name Mohamed......

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6019d

Marie, like me your wasting your time with Robin.He will NEVER answer direct questions put to him as he knows he's on to beating !He bleats on about stuff that happened 3 quarters of a century ago.... and only offers name calling when he cant answer questions with intelligent and factual answers.This is your chance to shine through and make a reasoned arguement for the level of immigration currently happening in the UK.Anything less than a reasonable,intelligent and factual answer....without name calling,mentioning Hitler or general mud slinging will result in you losing all credibility in any shape and form!  Its very simple Robin... prove us wrong with a reasoned and sensible answer.Robin I know your going to read this, and if you have the brains please PLEASE answer Marie's questions.  Answer them directly and factually WITHOUT insult or name calling.

Andy Wright ● 6019d

This is in part relating to the dialogue between Ash Parks and me at the end of March and beginning of April.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7587074/Why-is-there-no-talk-about-immigration.htmlI found it a fair and balanced statement.

Alan Brainsby ● 6011d

Just to confirm ...no more mosques...they do not blend in with the surrounding building styles so contravenes one of the planning criteria.....which we have to adhere to..(I have personal experience)Also they re inflamatory and intimidating..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6005d

"Just to confirm ...no more mosques...they do not blend in with the surrounding building styles...The one in Northolt Village blends in beautifully with the surroundings."They re inflamatory and intimidating.."No, they're not. You're just neurotic.

Robin Taylor ● 6003d

Robin, just leave her alone. I'm as angry about Marie Anne's prejudice as you are, and it is immensely frustrating to hear people regurgitate obnoxious learned views which they haven't analysed, but there is nothing to be gained here. Some people do not want a balanced view, it can lead to their personal discomfiture and their like-minded friends distancing themselves from them. Many people grow up being indoctrinated to some degree, and their circle of friends and their families are united by certain views and attitudes. You can't really expect her to abandon those comforts by forming different opinions, even if she wanted to. She might not have the personal strength to live with the consequenses. Best to just ignore it, which is what I am going to be doing from now on.

Ash Parks ● 6003d

Not prejudice-just facts and reality-the truth often hurts !!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6003d

Not prejudice-just facts and reality-the truth often hurts !!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6003d

"Not prejudice-just facts and reality..."Marie, it makes me wonder from where some other people get their bigotry.

Alan Brainsby ● 6003d

Alan are you saying its bigotry to live by the law of the land???

Andy Wright ● 6003d

"Alan are you saying its bigotry to live by the law of the land???"And which law or laws might one be considering here?

Alan Brainsby ● 6003d

Yes,neurotic about safety....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

Yes,neurotic about safety....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

No, just neurotic about everything - or should I say xenophobic.

J Smith ● 6002d

Alan,  I was refering to planning laws and regulations and NOTHING to do with race.  What did you think I meant???

Andy Wright ● 6002d

Since when did realism equate to xenophobia, I wonder.

Alan Brainsby ● 6002d

Andy, we live in dangerous times, one has to be careful.Yes, I agree about planning laws, although some are laughably ignored.I would also object to a brand-new CoE church, if it were in traditional style and built of stone, if it didn't match its surroundings. Part of the problem of planning, or much else, is if the proposer doesn't get his or her way then the race card is shown. Unfortunate but true.

Alan Brainsby ● 6002d

It's you, Marie & Tony Price who have shown the race card - no one else.

Robin Taylor ● 6002d

Robin,you really are digging a hole for yourself...you are the only one mentioning race which has nothing to do with the topic in question.It's folk like you who instigate ill feeling and you are resorting to the  "race card" because you have nothing constructive to contribute.....so sad....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

When all else fails,resort to labels....futile....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

Yes Andy,I agree....they have sunken to the depths of race which thus far has not been part of the premise. They have run out of logical argument so there's nothing else left.It's always a useful last  resort when all else fails...so typical....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

F Stone...You have obviously run out of amunition so all that's left are labels....means nothing.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

What is futile is the fact we had to read over Easter a stream of venom from a few people including you Marie on how people who had a different faith to you were intimidating and out to cause mayhem to the population.As a few people have pointed out this is not true for the vast majority of people who have different faiths beside Christinaity.I agree that a new place of worship regardless of the faith has to be in keeping with the surroundings. I have seen countless new C of E and RC churches that are just hideous in their construction and do not blend in with the surrounding buildings.

J Smith ● 6002d

Not labelling anything, just quoting facts as stated in this thread. Oh yes, you may be interested to know, where I lived before, an empty C of E church was converted into a mosque. There was never any trouble and local residents were often invited to visit regardless of faith.All I say is keep an open mind - something that I don't think you do often, Marie.

J Smith ● 6002d

Just because you don't agree with others' views that's not to say you are right.Iterating "venom" is a form of incitement and just your expression of anger...and not relevant.Also you don't HAVE to read or contribute to the forum ..it's not a form of punishment.It's always typical of people who have runout of steam to resort to insults...doesn't wash.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

Re It's you, Marie & Tony Price who have shown the race card - no one else.             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Rubbish, complete and utter tripe, not surprising but tripe nonetheless. So far this week I have been with Chinese friends, made a few more, been wined and dined in style by several Pakistanis, been voluntarily visited by  Indian, Dutch, and German friends, with an Iraqi currently on his way. Had conversations with Syrian and South African, had black tradesperson here today  who thanked me for my hospitality, and a few more I can't recall to mind at present. Am invited to dinner next Sunday evening by Chinese friends. The South African btw was able to confirm what we have read re 3500 white farmers in SOUTH AFRICA, ie not Zimbabwe,  being murdered but kept quiet both there and elsewhere. When I asked why he said the situation there is so fragile and recognised as such around the world that any news of it would cause such ructions and cause mayhem and racial tension, leading to goodness knows what.        The biggest racist on these Forums is you and your cohorts, be they doppelgangers or otherwise,  with your constant anti indig Brit on whom you have turned your back, the vilest form of racism possible. What your purpose is one can only guess but all you do is stir up racial tension and cause disharmony.

Tony Price ● 6002d

Tony,I agree....these people,Robin etc... are the very ones who drum up racism and in this forum, they are the ones who are using the dreaded "race card" not us. It has never been part of this thread but they are now trying to introduce it so as to deflect from their futile pointless rantings...Sure sign of ignorance and inability to uphold an intelligent discusion....totally off on a tangent...poor things !!!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

Tony,I agree....these people,Robin etc... are the very ones who drum up racism and in this forum, they are the ones who are using the dreaded "race card" not us. It has never been part of this thread but they are now trying to introduce it so as to deflect from their futile pointless rantings...Sure sign of ignorance and inability to uphold an intelligent discusion....totally off on a tangent...poor things !!!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

Tony,I agree....these people,Robin etc... are the very ones who drum up racism and in this forum, they are the ones who are using the dreaded "race card" not us. It has never been part of this thread but they are now trying to introduce it so as to deflect from their futile pointless rantings...Sure sign of ignorance and inability to uphold an intelligent discusion....totally off on a tangent...poor things !!!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6002d

Marie, I believe you said yourself on this very thread that you beleived that every mosque in this country breeds potential terrorists and that you did not want them in this country - now if that isn't an "ism" I don't know what is. Trying to change your view now to one of tolerance emphasises how little you know.

J Smith ● 6001d

"you are the only one mentioning race which has nothing to do with the topic in question"Do you seriously believe that, Marie? Take a look at some of the inflammatory remarks you've made on this and other threads.

Robin Taylor ● 6001d

"The South African btw was able to confirm what we have read re 3500 white farmers in SOUTH AFRICA, ie not Zimbabwe,  being murdered but kept quiet both there and elsewhere."The South African Whites own most of the land, despite being small in number. They have always brutalised the black majority. I popped open a champagne bottle when your white supremacist mate was killed by farm labourers who he had cheated out of their rightful pay."all you do is stir up racial tension and cause disharmony."Hold on a minute, aren't you the one who spends hours each night with his magnifying glass looking at photos of school kiddies in their reception classes in the Gazette? And then you count up how many are "ethnics" or "indigs".Oh, and btw., I don't believe your claim to have friends from the minority ethnic communities.

Robin Taylor ● 6001d

"Tony,I agree....these people,Robin etc... are the very ones who drum up racism and in this forum, they are the ones who are using the dreaded "race card" not us."Marie,Like all racists, you're a liar. This is what you said in your first post on this thread:"Exuse me but Churches are Christian and this is a Christian country...not a muslim country.Also people worship in Churches but many mosques are used by extremists and others to preach hate against this country...and to indoctrinate muslim youths in the ways of evil....also the building designs do not conform to the planning rules that the rest of us have to adhere to....so no,we do n ot need more of these buildings which we find inflamatory and intimidating."- THAT is racist. And you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Robin Taylor ● 6001d

"Yes Andy,I agree....they have sunken to the depths of race which thus far has not been part of the premise. They have run out of logical argument so there's nothing else left.It's always a useful last  resort when all else fails...so typical...."A LAST resort?! It was your FIRST resort, madam!

Robin Taylor ● 6001d

Labels? Insults?Marie, either you're being ironic or you're hopelessly thick.Take a look at what "labels" and "insults" you've been directing at Muslim people earlier in this thread.

Robin Taylor ● 6001d

Re  I don't believe your claim to have friends from the minority ethnic communities.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      I couldn't give a monkey's whether you do or you don't a) 'cos they do exist and b) what YOU think is of no consequence by your being just a purveyor of racism and intent on stirring up controversy and disharmony. And just to add fuel to your flames, I had forgotten the dear old Chinese ( Hong Kong actually )lady who I have known for 25 yrs +, and who once again reminded me this morning there is always a room at her Doctor son's house in Newcastle for me to go and spend a holiday. He came down this weekend for them both to go to a wedding at Woburn, so I had quite a chat with them this morning as they were about to depart. This lady every year  delivers a Christmas present for me just as she is about to go to spend Christmas with her son up north.                  and "  aren't you the one who spends hours each night with his magnifying glass looking at photos of school kiddies in their reception classes in the Gazette "      that I have done 2X in 4-5 yrs, so hardly spending hours each night( but spreading lies is one of your specialities ) but you have reminded me I have not done the exercise since I acquired the last Oct. issue of the Gazette, ie over  6 months ago,  so thanks for the reminder and when I have time I will get on with it and as a special favour to you publish my findings, which I am sure will go to show just how effective this Govt's programme of upsetting British society has been by mass immigration, which is my reason for the exercise.

Tony Price ● 6001d

Re Re It's you, Marie & Tony Price who have shown the race card - no one else.      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      cobblers, show the post prior to this of yours on this thread where I have introduced race. You can't, which goes to prove without a shadow of a doubt you are on these Forums  just to engender disharmony, strife and antagonism. Your behaviour is as pathetic as it is disgusting. How you have managed to remain on these Forums is a mystery, cos you do nothing else than what I said. You said in one post you look up the Search facility with my name so you can respond, which is nowt other than stalking and harassment, which alone should be sufficient reason for your banishment. What hold you have over the " management " of these Forums is open to conjecture unless of course you are one of them?.

Tony Price ● 6001d

Re  Oh, and btw., I don't believe your claim to have friends from the minority ethnic communities.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  oh dear, that does place me in a quandry bearing in mind I am invited for dinner Sunday evening to my relocated Chinese No.1 friend who is now in W2. Do ytou think the full address he txt'd me today doesn't exist. Do you think I will find an empty shell of a building, or even not one at all, or if it does exist, I will be in the company of ghosts, food which doesn't exist ( taste will be interesting ) and which has been cooked by ghosts ( but if it doesn't exist I suppose they need not have bothered ). When I was there last Sunday erecting the 3 post wardrobe, do you think I will find that gawn awf and the sweet terrier dog they have was also a ghost. And then there is another problem, the part contents  of my " toothbox " Kelvin ( Zhenwen )wanted and which I left for his continued use in fact does not exist, which will create tremendous problems as when I get them back here, will I find I am trying to use ghost tools. Oh dear, what problems lie ahead, I can only face them with trepidation, meeting with, talking to, eating food prepared by ghosts, and tools that no longer exist ( they DID as I have used them before ) but now you say they don't. By golly, ain't life full of surprises and challenges.

Tony Price ● 6001d

Re  I popped open a champagne bottle when your white supremacist mate was killed by farm labourers          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      how dreadfully sick to celebrate ( doubt if it was champers, more like fizzy perry ) anyone's death. I suppose you have you done that 3500 times when a white farmer has been murdered. May God have mercy on your soul.

Tony Price ● 6001d

Talk about a miss-quote....lucky for you I haven't sued you....yet....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6000d

My remarks you quoted are facts which are in response to the original topic of this thread and which cannot be refuted.You should take time to study the content before you start foaming at the mouth and trying to detract from the subject in question.You are one of those horrible weazley turncoat types who want to incite bad vibes... THE TRUTH HURTS AND THAT'S A FACT TOO....You know nothing about me so you are spouting hot air..I have the right to my opinion and have factually responded to the opening question....get a life.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6000d

Re  I don't believe your claim to have friends from the minority ethnic communities.      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    Iraqi ghost No. 1 did not turn up Friday eve as stated but before you declare he is just a ghost and not real, he did phone and apologise for the delay ( but even then did not turn up later . Time keeping does not seem to be an Arab forte, I remember few years ago I invited him, mother and sister to Christmas dinner at 8pm and they turned up 1 hr late, from Nottinghill Gate ). And Pakistani ghost No 1 is off back to Pakistan today, flight at 5pm ( Ghost Mean Time sans doubt). 8hr flight to Karachi so as he now has high blood pressure I told him yesterday in a ghost phone call to buy the special socks to prevent dvt, neither of which he had heard of and said he would get them at Boots this morning. A ghost with ghost socks eh?, must be a sight for sore eyes. And while he is winging his way back home, I should be having chinese meal with Chinese ghost hosts. Gaw'd, ain't life strange. Actually, while I am typing this I am looking at the present Pakistani ghost brought for me this time and I must say it does seem in rather " solid form " as it were. But then maybe I am a ghost and this message does not exist?. But if it can be read by others then presumably they are ghosts also!!!

Tony Price ● 6000d

Re  I popped open a champagne bottle when your white supremacist mate was killed by farm labourers       xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Here you are Mr. Taylor, you can open another bottle of fizzy perry wasser, another hero for you:-      " BBC reporter Jonah Fisher is order out from a ANC news conference Photo:AP Jonah Fisher, who is based at the BBC's Johannesburg bureau, wascalled a "bloody agent" before being ejected by the firebrand Mr Malema.Mr Malema, 29, called the media briefing to explain his findings on lastweek's visit to Zimbabwe where he was embraced by president RobertMugabe and his ZanuPF party. While there he was widely criticised backin South Africa for continuing to sing an anti-apartheid song with thelyrics 'kill the Boer, kill the farmer' even after the killing of whitesupremacist Eugene Terreblanche at his home in Ventersdorp."

Tony Price ● 6000d

Re  I don't believe your claim to have friends from the minority ethnic communities              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I say Mr. Taylor, do you think I should suggest to my Chinese ghost friends they should apply to teach we Brits  their language. Chinese friend No1 tells me one half of China can't converse with the other half 'cos there are 2 versions of the language in operation. But  Tooting Chinaman , who has applied to become a UK national already teaches in college re IT, so he would be ideal. Shame he is a gheist, 'cos he could have been useful. And the one I met last Sunday calling himself Lee comes from a teaching background, his father being a principal of a college back in China, so he would be useful. His english ain't bad, No.1's ain't too good and he is not suited I think to that form of work, but Tooting's English is 1st class.      "TelegraphGeneral election 2010: Labour promises Mandarin in schools Hundreds ofteachers a year would be trained to study and teach Mandarin in primaryschools if Labour is re-elected."

Tony Price ● 6000d

Marie Anne,You said earlier that you were simply stating facts (the post where you said "and the truth hurts").Would you mind telling us the sources from where you acquire these facts please. I can't find any that help me form a true view of the situation. I can only argue from a philosophical and humanitarian standpoint at the moment and it is not really helping me form a view based on facts and statistics.Thanks.

Ash Parks ● 6000d

To quote Frank Zappa, stupidity has a certain charm, ignorance doesn't.

Ash Parks ● 6000d

Were you referring to me or someone else on this Forum?

J Smith ● 6000d

No, just responding to your post. That's the trouble with this forum software, it's rubbish. It's about time it was upgraded.

Ash Parks ● 6000d

"get a life"Good grief, you posted that at 02:29 in the morning.You truly have no life.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

Eugene Terreblanche is the sort of substance you accidentally step in and then have to wipe off the bottom of your shoe - only someone like Tony Price could mourn his passing.With all the misery he and his followers caused to innocent black people, may he rot in hell.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"General election 2010: Labour promises Mandarin in schools Hundreds ofteachers a year would be trained to study and teach Mandarin in primaryschools if Labour is re-elected."Excellent.Look at the millions of school around the world who teach English.It's good that our schools are teaching foreign languages.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"you look up the Search facility with my name so you can respond, which is nowt other than stalking and harassment"I do so merely to find yet more examples of your disgraceful racism.There is enough on you in the search engine for an entire conference on psychiatry.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

Robin,having read your responses to various contributors on this forum,you really have exposed yourself as a very confused,bullying and missinformed individual.Instead of getting into a healthy constructive dialogue,you just turn everyones opinions into an excuse to drum up negative ill feeling.You don't seem to have anything positive to say and have no credibility whatsoever...a very nasty weazle

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5999d

Ever heard of "Pot, kettle"?

J Smith ● 5999d

There is enough on you in the search engine for an entire conference on psychiatry.Obsessive behaviour would be the follow up conference no doubt

Peter Chadburn ● 5999d

Re You truly have no life.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx more diverse than yours for sure. Had not long come back from Chinese No1 where I was invited for dinner. Another of his friends who I have known for years was leaving as I arrived and No1 told me Tony is returning to China on Thursday. No1 will be leaving UK  in a years time which for me is very sad 'cos he and his friends have been part of my life for 8 yrs now, he especially. Looks as though he will be going back with his current g/f whose father I found out last night owns a shopping mall in China. Kelvin's father owns a huge building, ( has shown me pics) which he rents out in offices etc. 2 years ago his mother came over and all came to me for Christmas dinner, inviting me again to China, where they have 2 homes, one let out but the new one is fantastic. They sent Kelvin  photos on memory stick which he fed into my PC.        I was awakened this morning at 10 am with my mobile ringing. It was Pakistani No1 calling from Karachi, having flown off yesterday at 5pm Ghost Mean Time and instead of txt'ing me as I asked, called instead, very nice of him. I asked if he bought the special socks I told him about, apparently not, he said he thought they would not help, ( £12 in Boots he found ) but had trouble with one ear but which by time of phoning, had cleared.      As to your adverse comments re my life, I maintain it is far more diverse than yours . I get to know persons from all walks of life including from MANY countries and don't end up with the blinkered outlook that inhibits you, seemingly  resulting in an attitude of spite hatred antagonism and spreading of ill-will.

Tony Price ● 5999d

Re  only someone like Tony Price could mourn his passing.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      please show me where I said I mourn his passing, just another lie from this source of lies specialising in the  skewing of truth and facts. A further example of trying to unjustifiably bring discord and disharmony to the Forums by any foul means possible.

Tony Price ● 5999d

Re  Look at the millions of school around the world who teach English.It's good that our schools are teaching foreign languages.                  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      well they have done so for centuries !!, ain't nuffinks new. You really have led a blinkered existence, and as for NL intending to teach Chinese to PRIMARY pupils, I doubt they would make much headway. So what will happen when graduation to secondary education takes over. My No1 Iraqi friend tells me higher education in Iraq was / is in English. India and Pakistan the same I think. Get out, get a life, go beyond political brainwashing. It's giving you stunted growth of mind and outlook. Try it, you might like it. Join the world.

Tony Price ● 5999d

Ree I do so merely to find yet more examples of your disgraceful racism.              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        rubbish, yuo will find no examples of racism from me, it is you who peddles racism on these Forums

Tony Price ● 5999d

The difference between me and you, Tony, is that I don't have to make up stories about imaginary friends from other ethnic groups.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"please show me where I said I mourn his passing"You didn't mourn his passing, but you castigated me for celebrating it. When I said "I popped open a champagne bottle when your white supremacist mate was killed by farm labourers", you replied "how dreadfully sick to celebrate".I make no apology at all, not after the fear and misery he and his follower caused to members of SA's black communities. I repeat - I hope he rots in hell, and I hope the rest of his entourage soon join him.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"Join the world."That's rich coming from the forum's resident little Englander.You seem to be pleased that schools in other countries teach English. So what's so wrong about English schools teaching Mandarin? What's good for the goose...

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"rubbish, yuo will find no examples of racism from me"LOL!!!Why don't you get out your magnifying glass, get a copy of the Gazette, and start looking at those pictures of 5-year-olds in their reception classes, counting up the "indig" ones and the "ethnic" ones, and post your findings on here like you did before, Mister "Non Racist"?

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

Any luck, Marie Anne?

Ash Parks ● 5999d

Re  is that I don't have to make up stories about imaginary friends from other ethnic groups.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    neither do I, at least mine exist, as clearly evident from what I post. That they do exist patently gets up your nose, as it swipes  away from you the charge of racism. Jealousy is not a worthwhile characteristic, ditch it, is only doing you harm. You never say anything about yours, proving they don't exist. OK, I feel sorry for you but you shouldn't hold a grudge against the world 'cos you can't get on with people.

Tony Price ● 5999d

Re  You didn't mourn his passing, but you castigated me for celebrating it          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    exactly, so why lie. What I did was say not nice to celebrate the death of another human being, especially one hacked to death in ghastly circumstances. I can't imagine celebrating the death of anyone in those circs, and did I say you were sick? If not, why say so. That you admit you do Search operation re me proves a stalking process and harassment.

Tony Price ● 5999d

Re  So what's so wrong about English schools teaching Mandarin?             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx absolutely nothing wrong with it. I do really wish you would read what others post. My comment related to the age of those beimg taught, ie waste of time more than likely at primary school. That you have lost the plot was clearly demonstrated re your charge the whole of the Tory Party is anti-semitic 'cos one local Councillor allegedy was. That in itself beggars belief proving you are determined to  build up charges of racism and hatred where none exists. Disgusting behaviour. Go weep by the waters of Babylon.

Tony Price ● 5999d

Re  post your findings on here like you did before          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      exactly and will do so again due to your reminder but the effects of mass immigration ain't racism, question of self survival etc. Why don't  you take it up with Trev at Equalities Commission or your own masters at NL HQ who also say to discuss mass immigration is NOT racist. Have a go at Frank Field who says same as me, and 70-80% of UK population. That you pick on me again demonstrates stalking and harassment. That you equate  question of mass immigration with racism is yet another example of not only having lost the plot  and inability to think things through but use your ignorance to stir up  antagonism and ill feeling on a public forum. Shame on you.

Tony Price ● 5999d

To everybody!!  Isn't it time this discussion stopped.  It's been going on for ever and just seems to a vent spleen opportunity now.

Bernice Wolfenden ● 5999d

You are absolutely right.It has gone on far too long and drifted way off the original topic.Some people have become very confrontational and unpleasant to each other and are using this forum to hurl insults around having nothing to do with the title of the thread...thanks for the voice of reason !!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5999d

So stop then.

Ash Parks ● 5999d

I'm not going to get these facts and statistics sources off you am I, Marie Anne.

Ash Parks ● 5999d

I am not a parrot so have no need to repeat myself... Anyway,some of us have suggested that this thread should come to an end.It has gone on far too long, has diverted from the original topic and has descended into a  mud-slinging match and vitriole.For myself, I am far too busy to waste any more time responding to nonsensical drivel.I have already answered the first question....GOOD BYE EVERYONE...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5999d

Have you just realised that Ash?I'm hoping this thread will ends soon as it has got way out of hand.

J Smith ● 5999d

LOL!Good god, Tony, you really have lost it.The reason I won't be telling you about my friends (or from what races they are derived) is because I couldn't care less what you think.You're a sad, embittered man.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"not nice to celebrate the death of another human being"Eugene Terreblanche is not a human being. He's a piece of pond life.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"re your charge the whole of the Tory Party is anti-semitic 'cos one local Councillor allegedy was."Oh ffs, read what I said. I have had the misfortune of meeting several members of that party with anti-Jewish prejudices. The Conservative Party has had a long history of anti-semitism, even Edwina Curry (a former Jewish Tory MP) has made reference to this problem.Btw., didn't some Tories want to appease Hitler?

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

"to discuss mass immigration is NOT racist"Sitting with a magnifying glass, studying the colour of five-year-old children pictured in reception classes in the local paper, and then counting up how many of them are white or ethnic minority, then posting your findings on here IS RACIST. And "mass immigration" has s*d all to do with it.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

Ah yes, Marie has no answer to Ash's question, so now she's backing out. Good riddance! Let's hope Tony Price joins her.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

GOOD BYE ROBIN,NO MORE  TIME TO WASTE ON THIS VITRIOLIC GARBAGE WHICH HAS DIVERTED FROM THE ORIGINAL TOPIC AND HAS GONE ON FOR FAR TOO LONG....HAPPY VOMITING......

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5999d

>> It has gone on far too long and drifted way off the original topic.Some people have become very confrontational and unpleasant to each other As opposed to being confrontational and unpleasant to people they've never met, such as Muslims?  I think that arguing with comments made in this forum, or simply questioning them as Ash has done, is more honourable than just making your mind up in advance about whole groups of people who have no fair way of replying.

Gerald Cabb ● 5998d

Quite a few were and also Labour. In fact some labour/tories joined the blackshirts. So because some tory mp's are gay, is it a gay party. when we look at the parties there is much we can agree with and disagree with in all parties. Should a Muslim vote BNP to get the troops mout of Afghanistan when the party is clearly anti-islamic? Life is full of conundrum's like this. When I look at the 3 big parties, are they answering the needs of the most needy in britain? or are they answering the needs of the corporations. Which tory party do i vote for? The cameron or brown one?? i agree with the liberals but don't like their stance on europe. much to think about.

Peter Chadburn ● 5998d

Re then posting your findings on here IS RACIST. And "mass immigration" has s*d all to do with it.              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    Oh no it is not, not in any way. As 70-80% of UK population likewise feel and say, so please explain how the effects on the host country and host peoples is racist. Everyone from Trev. at Equalities Comm, says not, Blair, Brown say not, Migration Watch says not racist, so you now tell us why it is. The effects of mass immigration is of legitimate concern to those who are uprooted, or potentially uprooted, have their environment taken away from them, and don't say it does not has not happened  because the evidence is all around us in many places around the country. You know full well why investigation of schools content is relevant, as does the BBC in particular but other stations as well, which is why they have stopped showing the school content in London whereas if they go out of town they more clearly the pupils as they are more or totally European.

Tony Price ● 5997d

Re  You're a sad, embittered man.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    that is why I suppose I have invites from persons known to me here to visit their countries such as China, Thailand, Iraq, Syria France, Holland, Germany and America, plus some I may well have forgotten. It is quite apparent t'is not I who is the embittered one. While weeping aside the waters of Babylon, ask the Lord God of Israel to forgive your soul for rejoicing over the hacking to death of a human being, on which topic I note you had no sympathy for the murders of the alleged 3500 farmers in South Africa. Very significant.

Tony Price ● 5997d

Re  several members of that party with anti-Jewish prejudices.             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I rather think you made reference to ONE prospective Councillor, so don't do your usual trick of twisting what has been said, either by others or yourself. Honesty is the best policy.       I suppose you will be saying next the B N P is anti semitic.      As for appeasing Hitler, I think you will find that was more widespread but a very bad  example for you to dredge up,  because Churchill was Jewish and I seem to think he was a TORY!.

Tony Price ● 5997d

Re i agree with the liberals but don't like their stance on europe. much to think about.                    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      very true, Clegg comes from a wealthy background,( see his family's huge estate and chateau in France ), Brown has lied more than any other PM in history and Shameron is just that. It is a question of the lesser of the evils as far as I am concerned and I will vote for the candidate who has the best chance of getting rid of the erstwhile current lot, the damage they have caused is unforgiveable.

Tony Price ● 5997d

Re  China, Thailand, Iraq, Syria France, Holland, Germany and America, plus some I may well have forgotten        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      and THE one ommitted was PAKISTAN!!

Tony Price ● 5997d

I have been reading lots of different thought and opinions on this thread and it would appear I am a little confused.Would you all please tell me what you define as racist or what the criteria is to be classed as racist???

Andy Wright ● 5997d

Oh please - did you have to open a can of worms?

J Smith ● 5997d

Re  and THE one ommitted was PAKISTAN!!        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    and when I was forwarding an e mail early this morning to Ricardo in Brazil, it jogged my memory re the ongoing invitation to that country. He was here up to approx 2 years ago, insisted on seeing me every day so as to improve his English but missed some days due to Church commitments( diehard RC) had beautiful g/f back home, she Editor of magazine in Brazil, but Ricardo wanted me to build a hotel on the waters edge in Brazil and he would manage it for me.  What they are now I don't know but building costs circa 3 yrs ago in Brazil were very low.              I have photos of him, I told him I am sure he has Jewish ancestry and put a black homberg hat on him. He could get into any synogogue in London with it !.

Tony Price ● 5996d

No.If don't know already or can't be bothered to find out, you have a problem.Other than that, there is probably another, perhaps subversive reason why you are asking.

Ash Parks ● 5996d

I know what I think it means.... Just curious as to what you all think.I have no problems at all Ash.Clearly you do as you cant answer a simple question without being rude.... or maybe there's a subversive reason as to why you wont answer ??What are you all afraid of ???  Your all very vocal when it comes to slagging people off but when it comes to a simple question you all clam up !So I ask you all again.....What is the criteria for racism???  How would you all define a racist ??

Andy Wright ● 5996d

I'm not being rude, I'm being analytical about your motives. There is not point to your question other than an implied agenda, but you are not telling us what that agenda is. Additionally, I haven't answered your "simple question" at all. Although I could at the drop of a hat. But what would that achieve?Why don't you start a new thread asking the question, then you may get more answers. Most people have stopped posting on this one anyway because the questions started to get too difficult to answer.

Ash Parks ● 5996d

"I note you had no sympathy for the murders of the alleged 3500 farmers in South Africa. Very significant."It's not significant at all when you compare it to the number of innocent black people murdered by the police & security forces in your beloved apartheid South Africa.

Robin Taylor ● 5996d

If you want a definition of racism, just read one of Tony Price's rants.

Robin Taylor ● 5996d

Ash I simply wish to know how you all perceive racism and its criteria.My agenda is to explore your answers and look at them in detail.I guarantee you that ppl see racism differently.In answering you would achieve a better understanding of why ppl are the way they are.... and you may actually learn something new !I dont think that people are finding it difficult to answer questions, its more like  if they do they are labelled, branded and called names.

Andy Wright ● 5996d

Robin you of all ppl should answer the question.

Andy Wright ● 5996d

How do you define racism? I have on the other thread.Are you wanting to find out how people in Ealing define the word? Why? How will this serve you?

Ash Parks ● 5996d

Re  in your beloved apartheid South Africa.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  news to me, please say where I have said so, you can't, so yet another example of one of your tricks of fabricationg lies re what people say /  think ( as if you could know ) in order to make another personal attack, unjustified as ever and sure sign of admission of defeat in discussions. Try sticking to facts and the truth,try something new,  you might even like it. And get out from your ghetto and meet people from wider afield, you might even like some of them and most certainly learn something.

Tony Price ● 5996d

"And get out from your ghetto and meet people from wider afield, you might even like some of them"I like a lot of them - but sadly I hate people like you, wh