Forum Topic

Pick up and Drop Off Chaos at Ealing Broadway Station

Yesterday at around 4:45 pm in pouring rain I attempted to pick up an old friend who had not visited Ealing for over 50 years. He was travelling into the station on the Central Line. The plan was for me to stop at the South Eastern (SE) end of the NW/SE part of Haven Green where it meets the N/S portion of the Broadway. The short pick-up/drop-off strip is outside a Polish deli and a bar and is across the road from the taxi rank. Instead of just a yellow line to contend with here there is now a new(ish?) parking box which accommodates two vehicles on a 'free parking for 5 minutes basis'.At my first attempt to stop in this parking box two cars occupied this parking box. After going round Haven Green four times taking up over six minutes the two cars were still parked there. I then had to stop illegally to pick up my friend, who was wandering around in the rian. No doubt I'll get a ticket for this. How by any stretch of the imagination is this a civilised way to manage drop off and pick by car at what is the major transport hub for a town of some 350,000 people? Whoever is responsible for these arrangements should be ashamed of themselves

Eric Alan Leach ● 6065d47 Comments

Totally agree Eric , the only place to park to drop off without getting a ticket from the council or the members of the gastopo in front of the station ."£200 for parking in a private property sir otherwise we will tow your car away and charge you more."is opposite the station next to the pub.Two whole spaces.You are allowed 5 whole minutes before the traffic warden gives you a parking ticket.I feel sorry for the disabled person who has to be dropped off at the station.

ajit singh ● 6065d

Ajit and Eric,Well I totally agree. Councillors are reading this and they know how crumby their provisions for drop off and pick up are at the "Jewel in the Town" that is Ealing Broadway Station . And I know and they know who is in charge. Readers any idea who's the "main man"?

Arthur Breens ● 6065d

What a wicked question. I immediately thought of the fate that befell Steinbeck's strong man.It is such a pity that the requirements of the Disability legislation, do not require the decision makers to make proper facilities.The nasty party is never far beneath the non gin clear surface. The other lot behave as though they have drowned.

George Knox ● 6065d

If I may impart some actual information.  It is perfectly legal and clearly described in the Highway Code that you may pick up and drop off (where it is safe) on any single or double yellow line irrespective of whether there is a loading restriction.  If you stop for any reason on a bus stop you will be liable for a ticket.  If you stop for any reason on a pedestrian crossing or zig-zags you will be liable for a ticket.  Quite reasonably I think, the transport planners have prioritised pedestrian and public transport access on the public highway at the station.  There is limited room unfortunately to give good facilities for every mode of transport.  The station forecourt is private property and we live in a country where property rights are respected and not arbitrarily infringed.  I drop off and pick up my wife regularly on the double yellows on the station forecourt.  Lots of people do and it is fine.  If you stray on to the very prominently signed private bays you may well pick up a clamp or a ticket from the private enforcement company Park Direct.  No-one is very happy with Park Direct apart from the owners of the parking spaces who ask them to enforce their spaces so that they can use them.  I myself have talked to Park Direct, as have our trading standards people and the local Safer Neighbourhood Team.  Their postal penalty charges can be safely ignored as they are unenforceable.  You can take them to the small claims court to get them to repay clamping charges.  Probably best not to use someone else's parking space in the first place though. The Council is working to persuade the various property owners concerned to sort this problem out but it is not our property and we have no tools to force a solution.  Maybe in Eric's ideal world the state would just take the property for the public good.  Maybe in that world the state would take Eric's house next. 

Phil Taylor ● 6064d

Essentially there is not the drop off/pick up space to meet demand.  And I suspect that even if you demolished the whole terrace of shops on the little lay-by next to the station for parking, there would still be not sufficient.Not unlike the main central stations all planned before everyone had their own form of motorised transport

Philip Coe ● 6064d

Councillor Taylor seems to have drifted into Outer Space at the end of his post.Maybe in an adequate world this current Tory administration - in power now for approaching four years - might have effectively reduced this pick-up/drop-off chaos.Maybe in an adequate world this current four year Tory administraion might have announced plans to reduce or even eliminate this pick-up/drop off chaos.But sadly NO on both counts.

Eric Alan Leach ● 6064d

On the contary, and by shameful contrast, there's plenty of dropoff space, and indeed longer stay parking space, at or immediately adjacent to many of the mainline termini in central London.

Chris Veasey ● 6064d

Wow Chris! No answer to that then. Phil Taylor usually hides away when the going gets tough. Let's find an easier question.Who's the "main man" ?  and why ain't he done nuffing?

Arthur Breens ● 6064d

I am not sure we are having a debate rooted in reality here.  There seems to be a desire for a magic wand to be waved with no acceptance that compromises have to be made with the limited space available.  The person responsible at the political level is David Millican, he does transport.  Even if we had the compulsory purchasing powers and felt it was appropriate to use them how much do you think it would cost to buy out all of the property rights and to put in a drop off scheme?  Is this a priority compared to parks investment or road re-surfacing?  We can only spend money once.  Maybe our country wouldn't be in such a pickle if our government got that idea.  Once the Arcadia project is sorted out this issue will be rolled up.  It seems like the wrong priority for public funds in the meantime to me.  If Eric Leach doesn't know the Highway Code and can't read signs maybe that is his problem.

Phil Taylor ● 6064d

Thank you for this Phil. Now we have the answer. Now try to respond to Chris Veasey's observation rather than take cheap snipes at Eric. We elect councillors to deal with possibilities and facts not to facilitate their personal vendettas. Be positive. Has any analysis been completed on these very few drop-off and pick-up bays. My experience with the transport department is that they do something and then leave it. No appraisal no data. Build a rocket and then don't turn up to the launch. This is what the rest of us who are designers do...we test our work and then hand it over. How else can we work?

Arthur Breens ● 6064d

As Phil Taylor has already explained, you can legally pick up and drop off on the double yellow lines in the station forecourt.  In other words, stop for long enough for passengers to board or alight from your vehicle and to load/unload their luggage.  But the discussion here seems to be about short-term parking, which is rather different.  Are you suggesting that Haven Green should have some grass removed to allow more parking?

Richard Jennings ● 6064d

No grass removal Richard. Just a proper appraisal of the "5 minute" bays that were installed following the outcry after the council made a bomb with their CCTV camera. After that most of us diverted our guests and loved ones to other non "big brother" stations. What I think Eric was saying is that he knew the bays were there but they were full and that there was no turnover. I am as protective of grass as the you are Richard especially as it may in the near future have to be shared with very  many more people.

Arthur Breens ● 6064d

Although the current lack of proper managed "kiss and ride" facilities is problematic, even more worrying is that the LBE CrossRail Specialist? Scrutiny Committee did not pick up on a statemnt made by the person from Crossrail (Simon Bennett?) "no kiss and ride facilites have been planned into any of the station developments in West London".  So not only are there inadequate spaces now, there won't be any at all in the future and Councillor Taylor do not think Arcadia will give up revenue generating space without a lot of persuasion from LBE.The whole Crossrail Scrutiny Panel was a joke, with councillors who had neither done their homework nor been briefed by officers and not having a clue how transport was organised in England.  It was embarrasing listening to their uniformed questions, which wasted a lot of time. It was also pretty obvious that apart from the odd councillor none of them ever really used public transport.

Libby Kemp ● 6064d

i wonder how many tickets are given to the black cabs which seem to block the place trying to get into their rank?The hooting and the colourful language one gets if you are waiting for somebody to pull out (of the 2 M A S S I V E car parking spaces infront of the Polish Deli / Pub.If there is only 50 enough spaces for the rank then the 51st black cab should drive off somewhere else.They are amuned to parking tickets.

ajit singh ● 6063d

If this is the busiest terminal station on the tube system, made even busier because it is served by British Rail, then I would say that it is in the public interest to purchase the land from this private firm whose practices have upset so many people. It is quite wrong that six users should be allowed to continue seriously inconvenience thousands of would be users.Yellow lines there may be in the forecourt, but if they are all taken up and so also the two spaces by the deli which must happen fairly often, then there is a need for the private spaces to be bought up. As for giving the deli users just 5 minutes is just plain stupid. Trains do not arrive on time to suit the five minute slot of parking in these bays.Collecting a disabled person is stressful and inconvenient as is delivering a disabled person who needs help. The trains are going to be more full and perhaps stop more often and so the pressure will rise even further. Plus vehicle numbers on the roads are not yet in long term decline.Suggesting that Park Direct can be taken to Court for clamping may be technically correct -pity Ealing Council does not advertise that it is worth seeking advice on  this - but in today's life when there is barely a minute to spare, and with centuries old suspicions about lawyers, this option is totally disconnected with reality.People will just continue to be ripped off by this firm.  Furthermore the suggestion smells of the couldn't care a less attitude towards the huge numbers of users. This may well be a difficult problem to resolve but falling into the long established pattern of aggression does Councillor Taylor or his party faced up with the polls closing their gaps - no favours. However as is the case with some other local websites at least he does engage and that scores brownie points when set against the remaining 40 or so has beens.

George Knox ● 6062d

It is amazing how no one in either ruling party in recent years has had the regard for Ealing Broadway users. Isn't it a bit of a problem for Ealing Council to go on about the private clampers when they make plenty of dosh from unsuspecting users. The whole issue smells of hypocracy tied to inactivity. Given how busy the place is something has to be done and soon. they hide behind future plans on crossrail without actually doing their job. when you look at disabled access, it is non existent. laughable also is ealing council adding disabled bays at hanwell station when the station has no access. all tick box government and tick box local government. targets are set, the council achieves them and so are a success. the proof of the pudding is in living with all this nonnsense. so perhaps we need parties to commit to action and not hide behind obstacles later on.

Peter Chadburn ● 6062d

A big "Thank You" to Libby and to Ajit Chris Eric George and Peter and surprisingly also to Cllr Phil Taylor. He makes me mad but he stimulates creative responses. We've identified the problem, discovered  mechanisms and groups who while holding the trump cards are unwilling and/or  unable to solve it. So we vote them out. We tell every organisation involved that we don't want any more new lines, trains or whatever until they agree to improve the station interchange as a whole. This is real "Passport to Pimlico" stuff. Libby and Eric would make a good team. Give them £6,100,000 (£50 cashback) and we'd get some action. At the moment it is a real "Ealing Comedy". First thing to do is to replace Millican and Hayes at Mipim in Cannes in March and find a Partner who might improve the station not build skyscapers cos that's what the people want.

Arthur Breens ● 6062d

Arthur hear hear.i think the problem can be solved by removeing the anti socal black cab rank.Give them the TWO MASSIVE spaces infront of the deli and let the rest of us use the massive space taken up by the eyesore of the black cab rank.They can park anywhere in Ealing as they are not allowed to be given a parking ticket.

ajit singh ● 6061d

On the point of the two "5 minute" stopping bays on the diagonal what about the two "phantom" bays, one either side of them? This morning, Tuesday there was a car parked in the northernmost "phantom" bay for at least 20 consecutive minutes and was still there 40 minutes later. In the first 20 minute period two wardens together walked down the eastern side of Haven Green but did nothing.

Alan Brainsby ● 6061d

Well there’s a bit more money lost to paying for an integrated transport hub. Mein fuhrer got energised when the subject of funding this redevelopment came up last night at Victoria Hall.

George Knox ● 6061d

Ajit you seem to be in luck and so do you Alan because one of the council cabinet members Cllr Phil Taylor wrote on his blog yesterday that "There are lots of small things that can be done to improve Ealing Broadway station". He wrote this in part as a response to the trouncing his colleague Cllr David Millican got at the SEC (Save Ealing Centre) meeting last night.Was that CCTV camera one of those "small things"?In the last 4 years have any other "small things" been done to improve Ealing Broadway  station or approaches?One "small thing" that could be done is to install a lift. Some of us almost wept last night on hearing an impassioned speech asking for a lift. It is a real vote winner. There is money. less than 4 years ago £50,000 was spent on a flawed Lido junction report. 5 years ago £60,000 spent on 2 speed cameras in Northfield Ave which have /haven't worked so a further £140,000 scheme is now proposed to replace/beef them up. Oh I almost forgot Tram? £38,000,000. There is money what about the will? There is a history of a charity installing a lift in a London station. Well I propose Cllr Phil Taylor as Lift Czar. Any Seconders?

Arthur Breens ● 6061d

Perhaps Greenford station will get its lift before EB station.A temporary solution for additional for stop/ get out/in parking at EB could be done as follows:1 reallocate the 226/297 bus stop to the E1/E10 and E2/E9 stops on the diagonal as the those routes leave on the diagonal anyway.2 relocate the 65/E2/E8 bus stop to then vacant 226/297 stop.3 remove the old 65/E2/E8 for stop and get in/out.This could be enforced by the camera at the start of the diagonal, or more simply by building a narrow kerb parallel to the existing one for the length of the bay so that a car stopping would automatically block the exit (I appreciate that some drivers are so stupid...).

Alan Brainsby ● 6060d

You should all leave your cars at home and use the bus.

Faith Wardle ● 6060d

There are sometimes that you just can not do that. as hanwell is closed on a sunday we often had to pick people up whop were visting either from boston manor or ealing broadway. to get a bus would just add so much time. and when folk had luggage even more so. my girlfriend who died last year was disabled and so the car was her lifeline. to be able to drop friends off and pick them up added greatly to her life. when obstacles are put in the way and no one from the council is genuinely interested then what can we do. let us see whether we get commitments or just crappy aspirations this may

Peter Chadburn ● 6060d

I certainly do not like driving any more and take buses where possible. But buses do not go everywhere. We need more development of more buses going to different long distance places. To have seen our bus stations close was always a foolish decision.I look forward to Ealing considering a few new hinterland bus routes to compensate for massive increases in parking zones.

George Knox ● 6060d

We need improved public transport so that everyone can use it.

Faith Wardle ● 6060d

"You should all leave your cars at home and use the bus"-  why?-  and who do you think you are to tell the rest of us what to do?

Chris Veasey ● 6059d

This just shows how backward the mentality in this country has become.Public Transport cannot with the best will in the world be accessible and convenient for all.Having recently been banned from both the underground and buses for carrying my worktools (which are in a secure case) on both Health and safety and that they exceed the value of TfLs liability cover. Beware laptop users, this could mean some of you as well).I, until last month, used tubes and buses daily out of Ealing but have now reverted to the car after some 9 years. All I can say is that for the fist time in years, I have got home in time to have a life after work.Delays, particularly to the west, have got out of control. The 65 is hopelessly delayed from roadworks the length of the route. The Piccadilly line spends entire vacations outside Acton Town. The District line...well a Royal progress moves faster.When it's good it's great, but it is now such a rarity that it cannot be counted on as being the norm.There has been far too much fiddling with the various systems mainly to meet political motives and this has driven down quality and comfort and allowed in a culture of negativity and myopic pedantry.A lot of really good improvements all seem to fall flat at the final hurdle and projects just never seem to get finished or maintained. Remember 'Bus Plus"?In the US, where Car is King, eyebrow raising leaps are being made. The attitude of 'can do' prevails and they get on and do it.Whole bus fleets have been running on low emmission gas for nearly 12 years.Metro's and trams are being built and used because they are mega cheap($1.90 gets a ride the same distance as Victoria to Gatwick in Atlanta)In Tokyo, since 1995 every cab runs on LPG. Now the move is to  LPG electro-hybrids.We are still on diesel and, because it is a bigger polluting fuel, the latest brainwave is to penalise residents who own a diesel car. But it is black cabs that make up the highest group of daily diesel vehicle movements followed by vans and light HGVs. The wrong move again. but it's an easy target.But this nutcase mentality of 'no-one should use cars' does not exist in places where progress is being made and working well. It is making the car part of a feeder pool. Car sharing lanes are the norm and park and ride and kiss and ride  drop offs are mandatory in all development plans.True, we have far less space, but why should there not be a proper pick up and drop off at Ealing Broadway and other stations.?Why not proper bus shelters as well.?South Ealing station - a busy interchange has no bus shelter and barely any light at the Southbound stop, it has to be one of the most exposed busy stops in London. And yet no-one at TfL can even manage to come up with a solution even though their 1933 predecessors managed it cheaply and effectively.Too many at TfL are blinkered by arrogance and politics. It has become Ken's Frankenstein and Boris is afraid of it.As for those who hate cars, I've noticed several politicians over the years stand up and pontificate at meetings on why we should have our car use curtailed only to see them slipping out the back and getting into....a car."I have to use a car because my work is important' to quote one now deceased councillor. So the rest of us are irrelevant.It has to be a fair balanced mix Trains, Bus, Car, Bike, Bicycles and Foot.

Michael Brandt ● 6059d

common sense response. yes my late girlfriend used portable oxygen when out and about. some oxygen users were prevented from boarding buses in case they blew the bus up. unless they smoked on the bus and there was already a fire then they represented no danger. so tools etc are dangerous?? ludicrous!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6058d

Who am I? I'm nobody special. I'm certainly not an eco warrior or the car police. I'm just voicing my opinion like you are. I don't believe that no-one should use cars, in fact I think cars for some people are a necessity. I just believe that there a large amount of people who use cars that don't need to. It would make life a lot easier for those people who really do need to use cars if more people used public transport. I've been using public transport in London for over 25 years and we all know it's not perfect, but it's got me to work on time 99% of the time. I've been using the E2 every day for 11 years and it's a very reliable bus service and has rarely let me down. I find that people are very quick to make excuses without actually trying first.

Faith Wardle ● 6058d

It's no fun using the car,or a van these days. For at least 15 years it's high costs and parking fines and believe me, it piles on the stress.But for me, being restricted by TfL was the last straw. Reliability was becoming too much of an issue over the last 12 months but getting banned from carrying my equipment after 23 years of doing so. Mad.The car was for many years the liberator of the less well off, opening opportunities outside what was once a restricted domain. But outside of those who need a car to work it has been handed to the better off or those who want to give that appearance.There really is no need for a stick thin 30 something to be driving a huge 4x4 in an urban area. Cars have got larger through the necessity of increased safety but even modern small cars are safer than large 'safe'cars of the past.It's the one issue I think Ken was right about. The taxation class should include 4x4 and justifiable working vehicles. And encourage smaller urban cars including standard sized estates.Certainly, if you work in a fixed place then as long as it is nearby, Public Transport is the best. Key to that is reliability and as comfortable as possible.Ealing's local services are not too bad but the city to Ealing and town to town routes are failing too often.As Londoners we have been lucky for generations because London Buses and tubes have been the world benchmark in quality and comfort. Only noticeable when compared to what was offered outside London and in other countries.But this seems to be on the slide. Comfort is going out the window with many new bus and train designs. With trains the seats are becoming fewer.If you want to get more people out of cars then the bus and tube has to offer at least a close comparison in comfort as a bonus to reliability. TfL have not really grasped this and in fact have let the opposite occur.

Michael Brandt ● 6058d

As we have a fantistic transport system and some people have stated that 'Cars are no longer a necessity'.I am gooing to sell my Wife's car.Red Fiat Dynamic Idea. 1.4 and i have today put 6 months tax on it.5 door triptonic with only 18000 miles from new.Elec front windows .please call 07527427946.

ajit singh ● 6055d

How does your wife feel about this?  I hope you've discussed it with her!

Philippa Bond ● 6050d

hi Phillipa Yes i discuss everything with her first.Sadly she is usually right.She also told me that i am happily married.

ajit singh ● 6049d

LOL  From your post I was afraid that you might have made an executive decision!

Philippa Bond ● 6049d

Dear Phillipai have not made an exectuive decision since i was told to get dump my ex girlfriends and marry the my currant and 1st wife.And before you ask it was arranged ..............my Mrs arranged it.I have the hand cuffs to prove.

ajit singh ● 6049d

Glad to know that romance is not dead. no doubt she is not so much your better half but your better three quarters. I bet there is plenty to laugh at in your household!!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6048d

Glad to see others agree that the pick up & drop off facilities for Ealing Broadway station are wholly inadequate and the Council should fix the problems asap.

Lucy C Taylor ● 6013d

There is an election coming up. maybe we can squeeze out a promise and not an aspiration!!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6013d

You poor mad fool!Political promises were downgraded to the same level of likelihood of coming true as aspirations years ago. (i.e. extremely remote.)

Tony Colliver ● 6010d

I have read so many people's stories in the Gazette saying they only stopped outside Ealing Bdy station for less than half a minute to pick-up or leave a passenger only to receive a ticket through CCTV.  Consequently I never go to the forecourt.  My son arrives/departs from Uni with masses of stuff which he has struggled with through public transport.  I go round and round Haven Green and up side streets while coordinating with him on arrival via mobiles.  This is not good.If Phil is saying I will not get a ticket for collecting/dropping off passengers at the station, will he pay my fine should I get one next time?

Marie McLernon ● 6009d

If Brendon Walsh at the Council can contemplate spending our money on buying the cinema Brandenburg Gate, than he is telling us that there is money somewhere in his pot to spend. How about buying the forecourt first of all? Or as well.

George Knox ● 6009d

TonyWhat is interesting is that in the gap between elections politicians will hide behind their inability to do anything. i.e. It is TFL or Network Rail that control things. But come an election time they should be volunteering commitments!! will they??? i do not know. aspirations = lies initiative = appearing to solve a problem with no budget by just announcing it every so often ( John Major was a great one for those)we will see something needs to be done but sadly LBE does not appear to have the vision in that area

Peter Chadburn ● 6009d

I think some of the problem is the appallingly Big Brotherish use of CCTV by the Livingstone-inspired pro-bus, anti-car attitude of the previous Labour council.People (including me) therefore have been left with the strong memory that stopping even for a moment gets you a ticket, with no judgement or discretion. But in actual fact this applied/applies only to the bus stop (though I still disagree with the use of the CCTV).This was combined, when it first started, with the station forecourt itself being closed for security reasons (after 7/7?), which meant it wasn't possible to stop anywhere on that road EXCEPT at the bus stop, for many months.Therefore many people got caught by the CCTV.  The upshot is that we're all now terrified of pausing to drop off or pick up, anywhere that has yellow markings on it, even where it's OK to do so, and even where there's no CCTV.I thought Phil Taylor's first post was actually quite helpful in this context - it's reminded me/made clearer that stopping on the yellow lines for 30 seconds inside the forecourt (which is now open) is *not* the same thing as a 5 sec pause on the bus stop which was enough to get you caught by the CCTV, but which was the only place you could try to stop in the days that the security barriers were up.I think most of us (me included) have been getting these two scenarios mixed up when we froth at the mouth about how picking up is impossible without an instant ticket.

Gerald Cabb ● 6008d

agreed the previous council was anti-car. but the current one is pro-money so not much help.integrated transport no chance in ealing

Peter Chadburn ● 6008d

I wonder whether the pick and drop off shambles is any better now outside Ealing Broadway Station?Perhaps Councillor Taylor's successor (as Parking Council Cabinet Member) could come onto this web site and give us a progress report?

Eric Alan Leach ● 5921d

Doubt it!  The fundamental problem is the railway operators leasing or selling the forecourt to the Villers House office block leaseholder or owner. It may even reach back as far as the 1960s redevelopment but its unlikely such an obviously public space in a busy station area would be misused in this way abroad.

Robert Darke ● 5920d