Forum Topic

Countdown indicators to be removed from bus stops

I know that most people on this forum seems to be car users, but for those of you who are interested, new Countdown indicators are going to be installed at some bus stops, but otehres will be removed completely. Here is the list of removals:Stop Code Stop Name Comments851 First Avenue 1597 Bromyard Avenue 1598 Bromyard Avenue 1936 Dormer's Wells Lane 3041 Acton Central Station 3042 Acton Central Station 3050 Twyford Avenue 3096 Northcote Avenue 3100 Trinity Road 3101 Trinity Road 3179 St. Bernard's Gatehouse /  Windmill Park 6009 Wales Farm Road 6125 Waxlow Road 6137 Barrett's Green Road 6910 Jessaming Road 7873 Park Royal Station 11465 Hall Drive 11785 Melbourne Avenue 14723 Tangmere Gardens 14829 Hanger Lane Station 15346 Brentside High School 15351 The Lido 15354 Graham Avenue 15357 Julien Road 15683 Hollingbourne Gardens 15684 Kent Gardens 15698 Popes Lane 15787 Adrienne Avenue 15789 Greenford High School 17107 Windmill Lane 17109 Greenford Depot 17290 Ashbourne Road 18463 Ealing Police Station 19033 The Green 20385 Pitshanger Library 20494 Broadmead Road 20638 Golf Links Estate 25092 Noel Road 26518 Aintree Road 26519 Aintree Road 26520 Lee Road 26522 Brooklands Drive 26523 Manor Farm Road 27652 Perivale Station 33016 Yeading / White Hart 33302 Gypsy Corner 33863 Dane Road 35811 Hanger Lane Gyratory 37250 Perivale Station 37263 Yeading / White Hart

Faith Wardle ● 6059d18 Comments

If you have any objections or comments please take a look at this website www.bassam4ealingacton.com

Faith Wardle ● 6059d

Have you established the reasons for removal?

George Knox ● 6059d

Absolutely nuts.They want you to use your mobile phone instead.- at a cost.Muggers: Christmas is coming early!

Michael Brandt ● 6059d

I understand that a huge amount of time, effort, and money has already been wasted on the indicators. The first organization to win a contract to supply a system did the R&D work, sorted out a system that worked well, but as soon as they started the main installation work their contract was terminated and passed to another organization which abandoned all the previous work and started on a different system that is still unfinished. If that work has now been abandoned, guess who will pay the cancellation fees again.

Chris Bell ● 6058d

While we know that local politicians watch this biting their finger nails as the figures in the polls get closer, it would be interesting if they would dare publish their thoughts on whether they would would want to spread this Himmler like approach to parking meters across the borough. Some chance.As we saw at the SEC meeting this week they fell over themselves to avoid coming up with policies which substantially differed from each other. But we can be fairly sure of is that they will not be paying another £6M to pay for your mobile telephone bills.Wonder how much Lord Ashcroft is stumping up to support the Tories?

George Knox ● 6058d

I use the buses every working day, so I have an axe to grind as much as the next person.According to the lists provided by Councillor Mahfouz, there will be 50 signs removed and 38 new signs erected.  I suspect many of the proposals have been identified following changes in bus routes and stop locations.  Certainly that has happened to my regular (very busy) stop.I am all in favour of a sensible review of indicator locations.

Robin Hall ● 6058d

The whole point of Countdown was to roll it out to every key compulsory and interchange stop in Greater London.The Mk1 version was adequate but limited. But for the usual TfL undisclosed reasons, the previous administration decided not to simply update it and make it simply upgradeable but wanted to integrate it with ibus. But they bought into unproven concept technology which did not work. Now it appears that the cost is so high it cannot really fulfill its concept. Countdown 2 is 3 years behind. Like so many things in local govt, Spivs seem to be able to get lucrative contracts that end up being poorly delivered.  Yet no-one in private business would touch some of these firms with a bargepole. Why is that?Is it gullabillity, incompetance or corruption?

Michael Brandt ● 6058d

Does anyone know where the new Countdown indicators will be installed?One would have thought that we need MORE Countdown indicators (providing they actually work)!It is very annoying. not to mention time consuming, waiting for a non existent bus to come along!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6058d

"Spivs seem to be able to get lucrative contracts that end up being poorly delivered"What, like Siemens and iBus?  On time and IIRC under budget.  Please try and use facts wherever possible - TfL actually has a decent track record in implementing things (although if you actually have details of this 'unproven concept technology' do let us know)."Yet no-one in private business would touch some of these firms with a bargepole. "That's going to come as a shock to people who use Siemens and IBM, who are both major TfL suppliers (IBM do the congestion charging these days).You've not thought this one through, have you?

Thomas Barry ● 6058d

"this Himmler like approach to parking meters"You may not like the way that parking enforcement happens in Ealing, and I'm not trying to defend it, but please stop referring to it in that grossly offensive way.  If you've forgotten what Himmler was actually like, I suggest you remind yourself by reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler

Richard Jennings ● 6058d

IBM had to replace Capita as they were making excessive profits on a wildly excessive contract. In any case, I made no reference to IBM or Siemens.Siemens have no involvement with the Countdown project. But ibus is not without it's problems either, the roof based transmitters can wipe mobile phones and other electronics on vehicles. although I think it is in the main, pretty good if you are on a bus. The control benefits though are being used to benefit operating contracts for operators at present and not for passenger benefit.TfL need to urgently address this.The contracts are now with ACIS, Trueform and Telent as the project of the last 6 years has not materialised and these companies are now sorting out the mess. But they are all very costly.The costing revision is below FYI.As you will see, the project was to enhance and increase the system but it is in reality going to be curtailed.The report fails to mention what has happened to the project from 2003-9Transport for London Investment Programme 2010Countdown Project ST-PJ172Next TfL gateway E - Project closeEstimated cost £m: 31Project location: Pan-LondonMode: Surface TransportCountdown provides visible and accessible bus arrivaltime at bus stops. It will also make bus arrivalinformation available via SMS text messages and theweb. The project builds on the major capital investmentof the first phase of Countdown and updates theexisting sign technology to meet current disabilityguidelines and passenger requirements.PurposeThe new Countdown project replaces 2,000 existingCountdown signs, installs 2,500 new signs and deliversSMS and web realtime information (RTI) services,which will extend the availability of RTI and secure itsongoing benefits.OutputsRTI provides reassurance of bus arrival. Remoteaccess to this information will also allow passengers tobetter time their arrival at a stop, which may helpalleviate any feelings of vulnerability.Improving traffic and transport safetyImproving accessibilityThe new signs will meet current disability guidelines,including the availability of audio Countdown at stops.RTI across all the services will be designed to be easyto obtain and understand, to meet the needs of a rangeof passenger groups.RTI enhances the quality of bus travel by providingreassurance and empowering passengers to makeinformed travel choices. The availability of thisinformation at bus stops and through web and SMSservices will secure comprehensive access to RTI,covering every stage of the journey.Improving journey experienceSpending to 2017/18Jun 2012 Final acceptanceJan 2010 Critical design review completedSep 2009 Start development of central systeminfrastructure, including web and mobileSMSSep 2009 Award contract to successful biddersMilestonesTransport for London Investment Programme 2010 73he internet and SMS services will also be complemented by a new generation of Countdown signs which will provide real time information at around 2,500 key bus stops in London.TfL have recently awarded three contracts to develop and deliver these improvements:The systems integrator contract covers the development of the software and the delivery of web and mobile content. It has been awarded to telentThe sign supply, installation and maintenance contracts cover the installation and maintenance of the bus stop signs. These have been awarded to ACIS and TrueformThe contracts will run for 12 years. The mobile and web information should be available by early 2011, and the roll out of new Countdown signs will begin in spring 2011.

Michael Brandt ● 6058d

Of course if traffic were to flow more smoothly then electronic displays would be superfluous as the paper timetables would be accurate.

Alan Brainsby ● 6058d

It might be interesting to see a breakdown of costs from the initial R&D, cable connections, bus location equipment,  display hardware provision, and general running expenses. How much is really saved by removing existing fully functional displays? I have seen ridiculously high estimates for sticking an unlit sign on an existing post, while most bus shelters appear to have provision for a countdown sign.

Chris Bell ● 6058d

In actuality what use are the Countdown indicators?All they do is show the estimated wait for a given bus service but is doesn't make the bus arrive any sooner, does it? The only positive uses are:Something to watch while waiting for a bus, could be achieved by putting up a mirror (vandal-proof of course).In case the bus driver has incorrectly set the route number and/or destination.Whether there is time to smoke a cigarette or pop into a local pub and have a half (of beer).Anyway the displays are discriminatory: how does a visually-impaired person read them?Monies spent on such an unnecessary information displays would be better spent on providing better bus stop shelters at all bus stops.

Alan Brainsby ● 6056d

I frequently have a choice of routes that are nearby and go near to my destination but do not pick up at the same stop. It helps to guess which stop is worth waiting by if I know there is likely to be a long wait at another. For that reason I would also like to see estimates for other nearby routes.

Chris Bell ● 6056d

Actually I find it of great use.It gives me a choice of taking  alternative routes to work be it a bus in the other direction connecting with the district line or SWT stn,  walking or going home and getting the car.It's not always right as some buses are subbed and do not have their transponders set up but it does indicate short working buses, long delays or at least it did because the one at my stop has already gone.90% of the time it is accurate and had there been one at South Ealing station I and 35 others would not have stood in the bad weather for well over an hour last month.For example, one stop in Richmond estimated 38mins for an Ealing Broadway bound 65!.  I took the tube instead via turnham green.My colleague waited for the bus. 2 65s did turn up but both were for Brentford only. The 3rd was  actually on 35mins but was full and got stuck in traffic taking an hour to get to Ealing.Countdown made me make a decision and I got to the Broadway in 25mins instead of 1hour 35m

Michael Brandt ● 6056d

Do you know when the countdown indicators are going to be installed? Does seem a bit odd that they are removing them completely from some bus stops and putting new ones up on others. It would make sense if all the bus stops had these indicators, however I appreciate that the cost of them are probably high.

J Smith ● 6055d

If you visit this website www.bassam4ealingacton.com and contact Bassam he will send you a list of where new indicators are to be installed together with a map. I don't have a problem with the new ones they're going to put up but I am concerned about the ones they're going to take down.

Faith Wardle ● 6051d