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Jean F Fernandez · 03/03/2010 17:41:00

new.EalingToday.co.uk Communtity Forum Topic posting

A Christian Voice

Taken from an article in yesterday's paper:DAILY MAIL COMMENTA Christian VoiceI cannot imagine any politician expressing concern that Britain should remain a Christian country. That reticence is a scandal and a disgrace to our history. So declared former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey, in a speech to the House of Lords yesterday.The Mail applauds his analysis. A view has taken root among our politicians that they cannot stand up for Christianity without disparaging other faiths.Not only is this nonsense, it is an insult to the traditions happy to recognize Britain's Christian heritage and thankful for the opportunity to practice their religion in a truly multifaith society.Lord Carey says of Christians: 'if we behave like doormats, don't be surprised if we are treated as though we are.'What a pity some of those bishops who are still in the pulpit - not least his successor - find it so hard to vigoursly defend their faith.It is not only in England that this sort of thing has been noticed, a while ago I received a letter from my sister-in-law from Malaysia, and she writes: I've been aware for some time now that Jesus is slowly being removed from the Christmas scene in the West, but I was shocked when after combing to malls and two smaller bookshops I could not find a single card with a nativity scene. Our Christmas cards are imported,for example, Hallmark. This is Malaysia, but my friend from London says that it is the same in England where Christmas is now celebrated just as a holiday season. Next year I shall look to the East (India, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines) for Christian Christmas cards!!What do other forum members think?Please discuss.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6053d76 Comments

God loves us all. The Daily Mail doesn't.Have you ever noticed that whenever you read it, you feel angry?

G Lord ● 6052d

Especially that awful woman - Liz something or other. How many times does she try and get a brand name into her column? Definately needs to receive a dose of reality that one!Getting back on topic I do agree to a certain degree with Jean - everything is becoming too PC these days.

J Smith ● 6052d

I guess people are so afraid of speaking their minds on the subject nowadays that they prefer to keep their thoughts to themselves.How sad!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6051d

If you look at it - this is one of the taboo topics that are always guaranteed to get arguments started - Politics and Religion.

J Smith ● 6051d

There have been wrong things done in the name of religion over the years but that is no excuse for the PC approach. In effect we have a confused group of people with Middle Class guilt who then propogate the PC attitude which results in a crusade/inquisition against Christians and others. Jesus kept things quiet when he needed to but was also a radical in the Temple. People twist regilgion to exploit others. My grandfathers generation were sold the God and Country message and they experienced Hell in the Somme. But people in the Churches that I go to these days are much more there by choice. So maybe whilst there are fewer of us according to the statistics who go to church, there are more actual Christians who worship generally either at homes or other buildings rather than churches. The Church of England has a bit of what I would call Institutional Confusion about it's role. That is why we get Bishops who don't believe in God. It is like a Civil Service approach to Religion!! The Middle Class guilt is a response to any missdeeds from the Empire, Ireland, etc and is daft because many of us who call ourselves Middle Class should travel back 150 years and see what poverty and virtual slavery that we originated from. Britain may have a cruel history but in real terms the cruelty was done to the poor people of Britain long before the rest of the world. So recognise History and Learn from it but remember we are not to blame for those deeds.

Peter Chadburn ● 6051d

Re Britain may have a cruel history xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx no different to all others at the same time and much better than most, but what Jean is saying is so perfectly true. There seems to be a disease of minds abroad in that is is perfectly acceptable to denigrate our own, people customs culture and history and exalting that of others, especially those in our midst. Imagine the authorities for example of Pakistan of dumming down their own religion, doing away with their religious festivals,renaming them to be acceptable to Christians, doing away with the Koran in hospitals and hotels in case they upset Christians!. We have too many supine traitors in our western countries and who need to be rooted and booted out. In the meantime it is about time members of our traditional religious authorities stood up to be counted, the R C's having a bit more guts so far than the C of E's. The " turning the other cheek " attitude will end up with loss of the whole face and body as well.

Tony Price ● 6051d

On Good Friday we will stop the Traffic with our walk of witness. This is something to share and also when all the churches join together it is really nice. I agree with the comment about other countries having a cruel history but the PC group tend to think of "what we did". But Britain and it's wealthy may have done it, but not me. I have none of that Blue Blood so why should I feel guilty. As a Christian I should care about what is going on in the world today. We should learn from history but not be clouded by it. A Muslim or Sikh will have more respect for a true Christian than for a woolly apologist. People of true faith have nothing to fear from each other. But twisted blind faith is always a danger. The treatment by BA of the Lady with the small cross is typical of the sort of problem that people have to deal with. So have faith and be tolerant, but also show yourself to have worth and value. Th COE is the established Church which really would be better being diss-established and become an entity of faith in it's own right. It is too much like a Club for me. That is why I enjoy the more non-conformist churches. So as the establishment church it has a voice but a weak one. Many good and decent people inhabit it but at the same time it does not lead but appears to be led by circumstances. anyway any other thoughts as to the role of the COE.

Peter Chadburn ● 6051d

Re does not lead but appears to be led by circumstances. anyway any other thoughts as to the role of the COE. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx a post Peter with many salient points, but as to the above, what I think is happening is as people get more educated they turn away from many teachings of the orthodox religions, especially Christianity, in the countries and cultures where it abounds ( Western ones )and where universal education has been the norm for 100 years or more, people have realised what a lot the Church has been teaching just doesn't add up or apply in modern times. It is as if God has stood still and mankind has moved on . Needless to say, there is much in all religions that is good and indeed necessary in the past. I tell Muslims in particular, 'cos they are stuck in a time warp, I hope as they live in Western societies and freedom of mind and body, they will do as the Jews have done, and abandon a lot of their teachings. Islam and Judaism come from the same source and base, one has progressed, by being in Western culture for 2000 years, the other hasn't, as yet ! All people are basically good, and especially the young and need to be liberated from their mullahs especially and be able to live as they want, with the over-riding consideration of not doing harm to another soul, be it human or otherwise.

Tony Price ● 6050d

Tony,the reformation is one of the things that liberated Christians and hopefully Islam may go through a similar process. always struck me that Iran which was such a leading country in many ways and embraced science and much more could have been the base for that. but sadly that opportunity has been missed for the moment. but we live in hope that our Muslim cousins will have a debate and learn to free themselves from ancient rules, but retain the love and other important prts fof their faith.

Peter Chadburn ● 6050d

Peter,I probably have more Muslim friends than most people on this thread.Most, if not all of them, do choose to live free from ancient rules. Some of them don't even believe in a religion, even though they are (by dint of their name or family background) nominally 'Muslims'.The problem is the media has chosen to characterise all Muslims by the misdeeds of the few.

Robin Taylor ● 6049d

"The problem is the media has chosen to characterise all Muslims by the misdeeds of the few." Absolutely right Robin,it's a bit like holding up the Nazi party as a prime example of Christianity,which I'm sure they thought they were.

Tony Wood ● 6049d

Interesting assumption about number of Muslim friends. I tend to think that we think of our friends as our friends and the likelyhood is that we would be unlikely to mix with the sort of so called Muslims that cause problems. We live in a modern world full of contradictions and I personally love the mishmash of society with all the various influences. Mostly it is healthy and most people tend to live and let live. But as a Christian (but not a bible basher) I tend to think that in England and especially in Middle Class England there is a confusion about Christianity, Guilt and many things to do with the Empire. I do not fully understand whether it does blight how our Politics work. But I also feel that it is a discussion we need to have. Guilt can be as an individual. What I have done wrong. Who I have upset. Not what the Duke of whotsit did 200 years ago. Political Correctness may be seen as a way of correcting past wrongs. But whilst we need to fight prejudice we must be carefull not to also create it. What impressed me the most in recent years is Desmond Tutu and the truth and reconciliation commission in South Africa. That was about wrongs committed by live individuals who may feel personal Guilt. Can they reconcile with those they did harm to. That was a very Christian institution and healed many broken hearts. Our own PC is an industry which acts as a Middle Class gestapo which picks on perhaps technical errors. It would be interesting to know how others view history and themselves and their views.

Peter Chadburn ● 6049d

Peter,Your references to "PC" and "Political Correctness" unfortunately demean your arguments.If being PC is anything, it is about treating people with respect and valuing diversity. In short, it is good manners.Those who bleat on about PC (e.g. like Tony Price) want good manners to be denied to others yet demand it for themselves.I'm also amused by your assumption that those of us who are PC are middle class. Where do you get this assumption about me? I do a manual job and own no property. How about you?

Robin Taylor ● 6048d

The PC Brigade I talk about is the more Spanish Inquisition type. I am not talking about fairness, equality and diversity which can stand up as basic principles for all and have laws to protect. I try to be careful not to insult people but I also see that some elderly may describe people in a way that may not be PC. Yet are they racist? Some may be. But others will care about people of all origins but just use the vocabulary they have been brought up with. Robin, I have made no assumptions about you but it is welcome to learn a bit more. From my mixing with former graduates in various parts of London and seeing them operate in their jobs and also seeing how some who look for a career in the Political arena are often quick to decide on the behalf of others what is right and wrong. You are from what I can see a Leftish activist who works hard and cares. But there are others who see the Labour Party as a Vehicle for their own ambition. Poltical Correctness may have even had it's day because many of the people who were well into it years ago have now turned into very right wing people. I suppose as a graduate, house owning, office worker that makes me middle class but that is an illusion as many so called middle class live with ludicrous debt. This country has many illusions about it and we now live with the two main parties both hi-jacked by the corporates. Is PC used as a tool of oppression or exclusion?? by some. Not you but other people with a bit of power.

Peter Chadburn ● 6048d

I'm not fond of the term "Political Correctness",surely it means that anyone with the opposite opinion is "Politically Incorrect". How good is that? No,it's used by people of a right wing persuation as a derogatory term for anyone who doesn't think along the same lines as themselves.As for (I'll use it) the PC Brigade knowing what's best for everyone else,isn't that exactly the same role that religions have played for centuries? They created a lot of silly stigmas like not putting washing on the line on a Sunday etc.Q" But there are others who see the Labour Party as a Vehicle for their own ambition."Come come,I'm certain it's not only Labour politicians who are guilty of that,it's just that you choose to notice them.I'd like to know what God thinks about the splitting up of society into classes?

Tony Wood ● 6048d

has anybody else noticed that there was a reply fromG LORD GOOD LORD are forum is blessed.Made my Day

ajit singh ● 6048d

We have been caught up with using standard labels which in a sense are total rubbish. my socialist grandad said there were 3 classes. working class and a non working class spilt into 2 groups. those by choice and not by choice. That says more about how people feel about their situation. agreed politically correct is an odd description used by various people. But my point about labour is that the Tory Geordies such as Blair have hi-jacked that party and i do not know when it will escape from that. Yes Labour needed to be a bit more balanced and not anti-business but to take a leap to the right of the tories is just a betrayal. no wonder thatcher liked bliar!!i choose to notice what has happened to labour because the tories are pretty much as we expect!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6048d

Good Post!

Tony Wood ● 6048d

Sadly many have been tortured and died for their faith over the centuries. Wars fought in the name of religion, it still goes on to this day.Surely people should be allowed to have their own belief, just as long as they respect those of a different faith, or indeed none! Sadly there are those who do not tollerate those of a different faith.Governments try to please everyone but sometimes manage to cause more disharmony by seemingly treating minorities differently or more fabourably. Rightly or wrongly that is the impression given.This is, or was, a predominately Christian country but as I mentioned in an earlier posting - try looking for a card at actually reflects the true meaning of Christmas! It is so annoying to find a card saying 'Seasons Greetings' in my opinion.We should not be ashamed to show that we are Christians, just as others should not feel ashamed of celebrating their own festivals. The Government just seems so afraid of upsetting those of other faiths that they allow this sort of 'dumbing down' to carry on.I refer to recent events like the lady at British Airways who was not allowed to have a small cross on her neck. Another person was dismissed for offering to pray for someone.I just wonder what this country is becoming, that's all!

Jean F Fernandez ● 6046d

The lady from BA lost her religious discrimination claim. No jewellery was allowed to be visible as part of their policy; it had nothing to do with the fact that she was wearing a cross.See link to the casehttp://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2008/01/09/43844/cross-row-british-airways-check-in-clerk-loses-religious-discrimination-case.html

Diane Gill ● 6045d

Well said, Diane.Certain people like to pretend that they are persecuted and that other groups get preferential treatment, when often it isn't the case. (In fact, one person on this thread even tried to blame minority groups for the lack of a Christmas Tree outside Perivale Tesco).The Christian religion has the most incredible degree of privilege in our society, with thousands of taxpayer funded Church Schools, yet some people moaned because the first state-funded Hindu School was recently opened in Harrow.When people say we are supposed to be a Christian country, I would like to know why I have never had a vote on this issue. When I was born, I was given a "Christian" name - without anyone asking me if I was a follower of that (or, indeed, any) faith.Jean complains about cards bearing the words "Season's Greetings", and complains that this is so as not to offend minority faiths, yet I remember sending cards with this message written on them as a child in the 1960s and 1970s, long before so-called "political correctness" was supposedly introduced into our thought process.Some people will use any excuse to claim victimhood and to blame minorities for everything.

Robin Taylor ● 6045d

There is an element of taking the Christ out of Christmas so that the shops can make more money but in reality according to some scholars Jesus was born in september which makes our retailers perhaps more theologically correct than the Church. There is a season which we can greet. But I do find cards with a Christian message quite easily. In some shops very few but in others plenty. I always by at the Charity card shops which tend to frequent church buildings and there are always some which relate to Christmas. Easter Cards also can be found with non-bunny pictures. Seek and ye shall find. The Tesco Tree according to my communication from Tesco was down to cost saving last year (obviously they were worried about their profits) I personally disagree with Church schools as they can divide people as in Northern Ireland. But many are excellent with a good overall ethos and we all want kids to get a good education. I believe that whilst I do not need a cross to show I am a Christian then obviously some others do. The Season Greetings cards to me are more so that the non practising people can feel comfortable about celebrating something. It is more of an american approach which reflects the materialism of the modern world and was evident before we saw large groups of other faiths in our midst. even greetings cards and mothers day cards are more a manifestation of american culture that any witness to christianity. So whilst I should be allowed to recognise the truth of Jesus, i must also accept the rights of others to believe I am wrong and also their right to have a different path. I have often wondered whether Christianity, Judaism and Islam are God's test to see hwther we all understand the meaning of Love and generally we can see from the problems in this world that man has failed much of that test!!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6045d

"When I was born, I was given a "Christian" name..."and on one's birth certificate it's in the box labelled name or forename. First name is another description.Christian name derives from one's appellation when christened. Being christened is the prerogative of one's parents, unless of course the individual was not "genitum non factum".

Alan Brainsby ● 6045d

re: When I was born, I was given a "Christian" name - without anyone asking me if I was a follower of that (or, indeed, any) faith.-----------------------------Thats nothing compared to what some religions do to little boys. Rightly or wrongly - they don't get a say and you are complaining you have a "Christian" name.

G Lord ● 6045d

Re I just wonder what this country is becoming, that's all! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Some interesting comments in here , Jean :- Former Archbishop of Canterbury Cautions Against Islamic ImmigrationBy Mark D. Tooley|Christian Post Contributorhttp://www.christianpost.com/article/20100305/former-archbishop-of-canterbury-cautions-against-islamic-immigration/index.html

Tony Price ● 6044d

Blimey yet again a thread that turns out to be related to immigration Tony - I take my hat off to you. One day I shall entitle a thread 'Fashion in the noughties' and lets see if you can turn that one around too.

Diane Gill ● 6044d

"Blimey yet again a thread that turns out to be related to immigration Tony - I take my hat off to you. One day I shall entitle a thread 'Fashion in the noughties' and lets see if you can turn that one around too."He will do!

Robin Taylor ● 6044d

Many problems of this country with troublesome families,out of control behaviour,crime etc etc..stems from the general breakdown of the family unit..Many of these families seem to have no code or standards to live by, having no committment to a code of morals or guides by which many Christans live.Therefore they have no real values and anything goes, without disinguishing right from wrong.A good Christian will be a decent valuable member of society not bothering anyone of other faiths and certainly has high moral standards.They should not need to defend their faith or to be berated by those who blow planes out of the sky and are bent on a mission to take over the world. Unbelievably there are those ven in these forums who support this evil element and seem oblivious to the consequences of blind tolerance....It is not important what name you put on your particular beliefs as long as it supports being a good citizen who does not condone murdering innocents and expecting to be given special dispensations from all the laws of the land...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

Christians are being discriminated against while the PCs etc are falling over backwards to accomodate many immigrants, mainly muslim whose mission is to take over the world, and they have a good statt here with all the stupid 'do gooders' suppoting them....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

Yes,but what about the very much more visible non-uniform code symbols allowed to be worn by other non-Christans..eg.Turbans,burkahs,scarves,jihabs (used as disguises by terrorists)bracelets,henna all over the hands,coloured spots on the face etc...and some of these have no religious connection..it's hard to believe the blatant reverse discrimination.What's wrong with this country that it resorts to turning on its own ....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

You are so mixed up with no direction except to critise others....Take note...a good Christian is a good moral and upright hard working citizen.....and belongs in this country so should not be made to feel he should have to support those with lower standards especially those who blow up planes....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

Marie - perhaps you have forgotten the recent and topical news items regarding Irish priests and sexual abuse of young children. I don't think you could class that as a good Christian act; can you? After all, aren't priests supposed to set an example to their community of Christian ways and moral behaviour?

J Smith ● 6022d

I knew this would be a reponse as it is good fodder for the critics...No not forgotten, but as I said before,we need to deal with matters as they are today and learn from the past...There will always be weak links and bad apples....eg if a bank worker stole from the bank, would we condemn the bank....We are all supposed to set an example but many fall by the wayside...that's life and not everyone has the same degree of commitment and strength...it's not always easy to do the right thing which is why we need to have a faith for guidance..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

Sorry to interrupt the rant Marie, but I am from a Christian family and live by a high moral code and ethics. So far all you are doing is showing how xenophobic and intolerant you are especially those of different views and religion. As I have said before which still hasn't managed to enter your brain is that not all people with different religious beliefs are out to indoctrinate you. I also have to point out, you are not being very Christian yourself.

J Smith ● 6022d

People who cannot uphold an argument resort to labels which reduces their creidibilty and are meaningless..I have no interest in other people's views as long as they do not try to intimidate me and they would have no hope in hell of indoctrinating me...and for the record...I am a very good Chrisian person..thank God.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6022d

You really are quite disturbed, aren't you Marie?All this hate you keep vomiting forth.

Robin Taylor ● 6021d

Not vomit Robin,that's what you find on hateful placards waived around by muslims on our streets.....Funny how the truth hurts and brings out the worst in people....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6021d

'Are Christians Being Persecuted?'On BBC1 10.50 this evening.

Jean F Fernandez ● 6021d

Very interesting program. So Stand up for Jesus and also yourself. Human Rights came from the faith groups when you look at how Slavery was stopped!! So once you discriminate against views of the conscience then you are on the slippery slope to dictatorship. Glad to see examples of faith groups standing together. The Cross as a symbol of faith is as important as a bangle or a turban. So the program was worthwhile as it highlighted the confusion around the law but also showed Polly Toynbee as someone who knows what is good for us!! So we would be banned from thinking or articulating thoughts in her secular state. Maybe i will pray for her!!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6021d

It might be amusing to note that the Christians in this "discussion" who are claiming the UK is their own land, land they believe is being "taken over" by Muslims, also believe they are descended from Adam and Eve who were born in a garden in the Middle East. It might be amusing, if it wasn't so sad.

Ash Parks ● 6020d

As a Christian I feel that the biggest dangers is from the secularists who want to wipe religion out. The Polly Toynbees of the world. Also Ash, Adam and Eve is a story that perhaps only a few fundamentalists in the southern US believe is true. The story is a way of explaining man and sin and how sin has travelled with us since the beginning. It explains human nature, which is something that people of true faith have to contend with. Islam needs a reformation just like Christianity had years ago. When Scholars and others take a look at the original and re-examine it to see how it relates to the world.

Peter Chadburn ● 6020d

Christians in this "discussion" ... believe they are descended from Adam and Eve...That's an interesting generalization. To extrapolate that it would suggest all Muslims are terrorists, all Roman Catholic priests are paederasts, and Polish builders are only good for building barbed wire fences and wooden huts. Christianity is about caring for each other, not a definitive view on the story of life.I suppose the generalization that can be drawn from the last sentence is that the only caring persons in the world are those adherents to the Christian faith. I could specialize that a little by limiting it to the Anglican Communion, but I won't.

Alan Brainsby ● 6020d

Not disturbed,Robin just very informed about what is happening to this country which you are obviously oblivious of in your cosy Southall enclave....get with the programme,open your eyes and ears and educate yourself..you do have a TV and read newspapers don't you ?? or haven't they been invented in your world.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

"...you do have a TV and read newspapers don't you...??I don't get my views from TV and newspapers - I develop them from meeting real people."Robin just very informed about what is happening to this country which you are obviously oblivious of in your cosy Southall enclave"Ah, but in my cosy Southall enclave, I get to meet lots of Muslim people. They're almost invariably very nice, and far more tolerant than you. Sadly, you've allowed the newspapers you read to poison your little mind.

Robin Taylor ● 6020d

Remember if you are a Christian, please pray for the enmlightenment of others. Also for your own as we must admit to be fallible human creatures. So please treat those that ridicule with kindness and sympathy. respect them so that they may respect us eventually. however if you find a money lender setting up shop in the church then do as Jesus did!!! The cruelty of the Romans could not beat us, so I don't think much to the chances of Polly Toynbee and all the secular bigots!!

Peter Chadburn ● 6020d

Ash,Whatever you do don't remind them that Adam and Eve (and the Virgin Mary, come to that) were Middle Eastern.The religious bigots on this thread probably think God is a Tory-voting Englishman.

Robin Taylor ● 6020d

"...probably think God is a Tory-voting Englishman."What else could He be? Aside from also being an Anglican?

Alan Brainsby ● 6020d

Yes, and you live in cuckoo land and in the dark ages...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6020d

Robin,Are Christians all right wing bigots?? you seem to imply that? I myself am not right wing

Peter Chadburn ● 6019d

Tony Price,you are so full of nothing.You are not capable of making a sinlge constructive comment whch is relevant to the subject in question.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6010d

Re Tony Price,you are so full of nothing.You are not capable of making a sinlge constructive comment whch is relevant to the subject in question..... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx well seeing I haven't made a comment on this thread I feel some explanation is necessary for this " out of the blue " attack.

Tony Price ● 6010d

You posted on 12/03 explicitly linking this thread and "what the country is coming to", to immigration.In your sneakily dishonest way you will now of course try to claim "I didn't *comment*, I just posted a link to a news article" but the truth is that it was clearly meant to make a point and was therefore a (destructive and divisive) comment, which makes the line you quote above about your behaviour entirely justified.

Gerald Cabb ● 6008d

Tony Price...so..so..sorry re.my last comment.It was meant for Robin Taylor not yourself...again big apology

Marie Anne OConnell ● 6008d

Ooops!

Diane Gill ● 6008d

Re Tony Price...so..so..sorry re.my last comment.It was meant for Robin Taylor not yourself...again big apology xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx that's all right my dear, 'tis what I suspected but had to ask. I suppose one could say pity you had not reponded earlier to save the Cabb one making an ass of himself, but there we are, all's well that ends well. I don't know what sort of day you have had, I've had a mixed one. Had usual daily call from my Dutch lady, then one from my special Chinese friend who wanted to borrow my " toothbox ". The laughs he has given me during the 10 years of our friendship are legendary and I correct him always and make him repeat and repeat the word(s) until, he gets them right, for which he is grateful as is one other Chinese to whom I did the same and who said he was lucky to have a friend like me but he long since moved to Tooting so I haven't actually seen him for longtime. Anyway, the one who wants my " toothbox " is leaving Ealing for Paddington, which makes me sad, 'cos not only have I been of great help to him over the years but he to me, especially where computers and all things " digital " are concerned, so I will miss him. Actually, it is my toolbox he needs and which he will have when I return to London tomorrow. Then I received an unexpected call from a very very special Pakistani friend, who I have also known for 10 years. He is in England again, has invited me to dinner Tues, usually brings me a present and has many times invited me to Pakistan, which one day I will probably accept, Nov is best time he says. This person is very pro British, was educated here as was his father and his father before him. A most interesting family. I have great conversations with him, including on religion ( he is devout and prays 5 times a day ). Needless to say we do not agree on everything but do talk freely and openly and respect each other. As do his friends here who he introduces me to, mainly professional people but not exclusively so, none of whom wish to change this country , it's ways or customs. THEY come here because it is what it is, British and English!, which they like and respect. So today I had sad news and good news, all involving " ethnic " people, strange as it may seem to some and who cannot or choose not understand what I, and circa 80% of the UK population cannot accept, ie MASS immigration and the changing of OUR country , aided and abetted by quislings and those of traitorous intent. Incidentally, have you read Frank Fields latest words on the matter.

Tony Price ● 6008d

"well seeing I haven't made a comment on this thread I feel some explanation is necessary for this " out of the blue " attack."It just goes to show that you're capable of being odious even when you don't post a comment.

Robin Taylor ● 6008d

"but he long since moved to Tooting so I haven't actually seen him for longtime."I'm not surprised he didn't want to stay in touch with you.

Robin Taylor ● 6008d

Re have you read Frank Fields latest words on the matter. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7587074/Why-is-there-no-talk-about-immigration.html and the comments are as pertinent as the article itself

Tony Price ● 6008d

Re I'm not surprised he didn't want to stay in touch with you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx funny that, cos the same afternoon approx 6 weeks ago when Chinese friend No 1 picked up a car I was keeping for him he drove to the one in Tooting and when they were together in the car, the Tooting one called me saying he wanted a bargain like the one I had got for No.1 and how it's about time we met again. So yet another clanger.

Tony Price ● 6008d

Re It just goes to show that you're capable of being odious even when you don't post a comment. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Marie was referring to YOU, pas moi, so clanger No. 2. Fancy admitting yourself as being odious, and in public. Marie was none too complimentary about you, but no need surely to dig yourself in deeper. NB, I see you are continuing the stalker role still.

Tony Price ● 6008d

Re I'm not surprised he didn't want to stay in touch with you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx while eating lunch just now had txt message from the 1st Iraqi I met and subsequently got to know well, and his family. Txt'd him back and when finished eating I called him, he wants to visit and complained he hadn't seen me for quite a while and ended by saying something I did not expect in that he felt much better now he had spoken to me as hearing my voice has that effect on him!!. When I get back to London I will let him visit.

Tony Price ● 6007d

A friend of moine has suggested that the reason that racists smell (as per RT's comments)is because they are converts from Socialism and haven't yet had time to wash!

Alan Brainsby ● 6007d

re I'm not surprised he didn't want to stay in touch with you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx As about to leave Southampton yesterday ( Sunday ) afternoon my mobile rang. It was Chinese No 1. Where are you he asked, just on my way back I said. Hurry up 'cos I need you. Need to drill 9 holes. Confirmed he had no screws or rawplugs, so he called just in time for me to gather them up and bring to London. No 1 met me soon after my arrival back in Ealing and after long discussion we agreed to load chest of drawers into my estate car and me and one of his existing flatmates to follow his car to Westbourne Terrace area. My passenger , also Chinese is staying in Ealing, studying for Masters Degree, doesn't need to work, says London has too many people and his home in China is quiet, father is Principal of College where they live. Managed to park near " new " flat and unload. I asked if the new wardrobe needs assembling, answer is no, it's these, these being 3 poles!!. So all this fuss is for 3 poles from Ikea which need to be screwed into ceiling, very high to boot, and anti slip cups at base. I said Kelvin, this is no wardrobe but he said 2 rails will run across from which clothes can be hung. Well you have never seen anything like it. He being as handy as a cow with a muskett left me to get up on high ladder to drill these holes, and it so happened a spirit level was needed which I also just happened to have in the car. The flat is nothing special, rent £2000 per month of which his g/friend pays two thirds, she being at Uni, doesn't need to work, last year bought a flat in Canary Wharf for cash which is rented out. Parents loaded it seems, as are all of the many Chinese I have known through No 1. A close friend of his nearby in Ealing was at Uni and did not need to work. Kelvin's parents have 2 houses in China and grandfather (now getting better after breaking hip ) has a largish farm. All the tripe we have been fed re Chinese being poor is a load of rubbish. Tooting Chinaman's parents have 3 places back home, one so large it is split into 3. I have long since been invited to China where Kelvin says he will take me around for 3 months. Tooting man is applying for British citizenship as he wants a third child ( that number not allowed back home ) but wants to stay here permanently, hope so 'cos he and his wife are very nice people. So until 10 pm last night we were fixing this " wardrobe " which has no front, no top, no sides and a wall for a back. Of all the years I have known Chinese No 1, he has been a source of " excitement and all things different ". He is the sort of person everyone likes and the centre of " attraction ". And within 6 weeks of having this pristine car I found for him, has bashed that already. When he lived next to me he had BMW's Mercs and Honda Stream. But although further away, wants to keep very much in touch, which suits me as he is useful!!.

Tony Price ● 6006d

"why-is-there-no-talk-about-immigration"You never talk about anything else.

Robin Taylor ● 6005d

Re He is in England again, has invited me to dinner Tues, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which duly took place. Despite having a house in Ealing ( that's how we met 9 yrs ago and formed a friendship ) which as he now lives more or less permanently in Pakistan, is let out, so when in England , stays with a fellow countryman friend out of London to where I drove to meet him. That house is detached in large grounds with security electric gates etc and we went on from there by that host's chaufeur driven Merc to another Pakistani friend in Surrey. There we were greeted most warmly, settled down to talk during which my friend insisted on videoing me to take back, including to explain all about the Icelandic volcano. When he was living here before my friend was useless with gadgets etc but was now handling this Sony cam with great dexterity, I asked where he acquired it, was gifted to his wife by the Chinese Ambassador and she passed it on to him. I was also asked to speak by phone to a doctor in Lahore who wants to get to London quickly re the best way to do it in view of the volcanic ash problem. We were joined by a young person ( 23 yr old )who was extremely intelligent and pleasant and spoke without any hint of an accent. He said reason was he was born and raised in England, works in the City in financial circles. I asked him how he regarded himself, as British he said, with hint of Pakistani heritage and his children will naturally have none at all other than Britishness. His views were a bit off course ( in my opinion )re the liberation of Iraq but we did have frank and amicable exchange of views. He made a very good impression on me. Later two children came home, one just under 5 and the other 11, sons of the host. Both these boys were quite prepared to speak to we strangers in their home, incl the very young one, no inhibitions at all. He was bundled off to bed but the elder of the 2 was allowed to stay and join us for dinner where I took the opportunity to ask re his school etc. Just gone back after Easter break he said ( ref. to Easter got my interest ) so I asked what happened at Christmas. We have Christmas dinner he said and celebrate the birth of Jesus, music to my ears. Both these 2 lads will be good assets I have no doubt. We adults had wide ranging discussions and my friend in particular getting very agitated re the need to eradicate the fundamentalists back home and how his Govt. are doing their best in that regard. The chauffeur ( also of Pakistani origin )joined in to a certain extent, to which I was relieved as I would have felt uneasy if he had " kept aside " He said he has only met me once but that I very much meet with his approval.I was urged again to visit my friend when in Pakistan, and in the company of the host in that house. The whole evening was very pleasant and all 3 of the main persons, my friend, the person with whom he was staying and the dinner host have all integrated into English society, living amongst English people, seemingly without any problems and not formed or joined ghettos. And the younger ones will do so even more, holding no doubt to their religion, but why not. The way they have joined into this country is the way to do it and would avoid resentment that undoubtedly does exist re mass immigration and the formation of ghettos and areas so alien to England. All in all, a very pleasant and reassuring evening. On the way back, my Ukranian friend phoned, so I passed him over to Friend No 1 for a while, as when both were here in Ealing, they met and got to know each other well. A pleasant end to a pleasant evening

Tony Price ● 6004d

Re It just goes to show that you're capable of being odious even when you don't post a comment. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx oh no, what is does show that even in the event of no evidence, in your frantic desire to create disharmony you use falsehoods to attack posters with no reason, proving your aim on these Forums is not healthy. In fact it is subversive and undermining the real reason for their existence.

Tony Price ● 6001d

MY frantic desire to create disharmony?That's rich.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

Re That's rich. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx not exactly, indeed far from it. The tone of all your posts on whatever Forum is one of personal abuse, antagonism and creation of disharmony. And you only get involved in matters of immigration, ethnicity and anti Britishness, indicating you are a political plant here for that purpose. As I have said, how you have not been removed remains a mystery, either you are part of the management of these Forums or you have some hold over them.

Tony Price ● 5999d

"how you have not been removed remains a mystery, either you are part of the management of these Forums or you have some hold over them."Quite the contrary, the real mystery is why YOU haven't been banned. The forum code of conduct states that posters must refrain from all racism, hatred and bigotry, well you break all three of those rules every time you post!Oh, and by the way, if I had any "hold" over the forum management, your odious posts would no long appear on here.

Robin Taylor ● 5999d

You can only be banned from a posting if all parties agree. I only know this as I asked the moderator regarding another inflammatory thread.

J Smith ● 5999d

Then once Tony has been removed to Lubianka. what would the next move be??

Peter Chadburn ● 5999d

Re resentment that undoubtedly does exist re mass immigration xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx last evening I was in the company of a person born and brought up in Brentford, he being I think 38 yrs old. Unfortunately his marriage broke up with the ex wife ( with whom he stills seems to be on good terms ) getting by far the greater part of the erstwhile joint " funds" as she has the 2 daughters aged 6 and 9. He is in process of relocating to Farnborough I think he said ( began with F anyway ) as he has had enough of London. Why I asked, don't like the people now he said, too violent, too unfriendly, place no longer as my country. I asked if he had always known Ealing well. Of course he said, used to be a very nice place but changed beyond all recognition by mass immigration. Turns out his mother is Irish and father a Muslim from South America and who is spitting blood re immigration now. " They come here and get given everything but when I came I had to work and hard to get what I have ". I reminded my friend re just one example of the woman from Afghanistan in Acton living the life of luxury on taxpayers' expense ( rent alone £12484 per MONTH , bens in toto pa = £185,000) to which he said when he went to Richmond Council for rehousing help after his marriage break-up he got nothing and was refused!. So he ain't happy, nor is his immigrant father.

Tony Price ● 5996d

Yet more bo****ks from Tony Price

Robin Taylor ● 5996d