Forum Topic

Tougher Laws or Tougher Police Needed?

A frail 85 Year ol Lady is Murdered in a Greenford Alley A 14 year old is harassed contiuously by 2000+ texts Sexually Explicit in content, and is brought before a Court and walks free.On the news yesterday we see a young lady walking along the pavement attacked from behind with a blow that leaves her unconscious. Her attacker is a man who creeps up stealthly behind her, and catches her unawares. All this makes for unease among the law abiding .While we read of such attrocities we also read about Mohammed Qasab the Pakistani Terrorist killer being hanged Today, for his Part in the Mumbai attack in 2004. The middle East in Flames  and We in Britain cannot make up our minds about "Human Right Issues.

Os A Whittle ● 5054d30 Comments

Re  A frail 85 Year ol Lady is Murdered in a Greenford Alley           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  shocking Os. Ealing never used to be this way, certainly not when I came here in '72. Briefly heard on News  that 2 under age teenagers have been caught suspected of her murder. The mind boggles. Old ladies in my mind are lovely and deserve  being treated with kindness civility and help. What goes through the minds of those who want to kill them!

Tony Price ● 5054d

Tony, I think the motive was to rob the defenceless old dear.There are a lot of former Alleyways that led to Residents backyards and access to the Bin Men of yester-year.

Os A Whittle ● 5054d

Re  motive was to rob the defenceless old dear.                xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    that may well be Os, but no good reason. You do not rob octogenarian  half blind ladies, you help them cross the road,get  items off  supermarket shelves for them without being asked. I suppose now we will be entertained to the reason these 2 murderers come from broken homes, poor backgrounds or some other PC twoddle. And csn't be named for legal reasons. All nice and cosy,for the miscreants. Just think how the relatives of the old dear must feel, devastated and bitter. What a way for the old girl to meet her end, murdered up an alley where she lives by two  young thugs.

Tony Price ● 5054d

I know the lovely family of Paula Castle.Not only were her grandchildren robbed of their father when he had a massive and unexpected heart attack but these scum have robbed them of a much-loved grandmother.I am so angry that I shall not continue.

Nigel Brooks ● 5053d

Re  robbed them of a much-loved grandmother.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      I don't know about others but my belief most  grandchildren are very fond of their grandparents in particular. I was part brought up by one g/mother as my parents house had been bombed to bits and they had moved into my g/mother's house. So three generations lived together and  " nanny "  used to spend much time with me and my cousin next door. She naturally  came to be special to us especially me,so if some  ba....rd murdered her not only would I have been devastated but probably would never have gotten over it. My employer moved me to London and my  first boss there was a typical English gentleman, as I was staying at Loughton at the time and he  lived at Buckhurst Hill,his family invited me to dinner one evening. Their children were invited as well, so I met them all,including obviously the wife, again a lovely unassuming soul. He eventually reired but was swept up by Lloyds because of his reputation and experience. I heard  years later he had passed over with cancer. His house in Buckhurst Hill was very large with huge gardens.  A few years ago I saw the headlines and  a woman's face on the front page of a national paper.I instantly recognised the person,it was the wife who had apparently sold the B/Hill property and moved into a more manageable  house into which a person had broken in, raped her and then murdered her. She was well into her eighties by then. I cannot get my mind how someone  could do either of those things to her let alone both. Unbelievable,what a ghastly way to end her days on this earth and enter the next. I don't suppose  the children,or grandchilren have EVER got over it, or ever will.

Tony Price ● 5053d

re: On the news yesterday we see a young lady walking along the pavement attacked from behind with a blow that leaves her unconscious. Her attacker is a man who creeps up stealthly behind her, and catches her unawares.Just heard someone is being "questioned" about this.Let's hope, if he is the guilty one, that the punishment fits the crime.  Bet his mum is really proud of him though.

Bernadette Clover ● 5053d

I totally agfree Bernadette, until such time as the punishment fits the crime than I am sorry to say that levels of crime will continue to increase.The criminals and wrongdoers know that all they get is a slap on the wrist, yet if the members of the public try to take the law in their own hands they are severely dealt with.Some judges are lilly livered imbeciles and the law is an ass!I feel so sorry for that poor lady in Greenford, my thoughts are with her family.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5053d

I think the parents should be punished too, then maybe people will start thinking about raising their children, with manners and respect as most of us here were, my four children who are 30, 28, 23 and 20 have never sworn in front of myself or my family, and to this day I still get complimented on their manners and behaviour. I go absolutely mad when I hear parents that say its not their fault as they are single parents, so was I ! you dont need money to bring your children up properly, manners respect and integrity cost nothing.

Tracey Mehdizadeh ● 5053d

Re  until such time as the punishment fits the crime                     xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx agreed Jean, but what is  suitable punishment that is feasible or available. Prison  for a lengthy and longer period  is probably no deterrent considered by the miscreants. What would be is similar violence to the person, birching on a regular basis while incaserated  but no chance  such would ever  get passed the PC brigade. A person of whatever age who can violently attack an innocent  person is one whose mentality I cannot comprehend and who is not suitable  to be let loose in public. So what can be done  to them, and we only find out their " potential " when it is too late. A difficult problem.

Tony Price ● 5053d

Re that 2 under age teenagers have been caught suspected of her murder            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      Just on midday News,these two are to appear at Uxbridge. They come from Southall.

Tony Price ● 5052d

Just on midday News, these two are to appear at Uxbridge. They come from Southall.?It matters or it does not matter where they come from?

George Knox ● 5052d

Re  ?It matters or it does not matter where they come from?          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    hiya, you again stakler, your first post on this thread!.Now there's a surprise.  And it does have signicance where the suspects come from in that they are not locals and I think that may be of interest to other locals. Now you tell why they should not be interested in that. Try not to let your obsession with me cloud your judgement. And  btw, still waiting for you to prove your  accusation made re me posting racist postings, and what was the other thing you accused me of?.

Tony Price ● 5052d

Hello misery.You remind me of the man who doth bestride the narrow world like a Colossus, and we petty men walk under his huge legs and peep about.You have told us that immigration has resulted in places like Southall Hanwell and West Ealing becoming places which you don’t like. The ONS statistics tell us many of the ethnic groups in those places are Indian or Pakistani. So by you telling us that these accused come from Southall linked with your above dislikes, what reasonable minded person would not think that in some way you have got it in for people from Southall, i.e. a group of people with a different racial ethnicity to yours? Should we then be led to think by you that if people accused of crime come from Southall which houses an ethnic minority, then the people living there should be regarded with extra suspicion?As we all know it makes no difference if the people accused of this really shocking crime come from Southampton or Kensington or planet Pluto. Perhaps you can tell us why it was so important for you to make the remarks about Southall AT ALL. But then perhaps you can’t.

George Knox ● 5052d

Re But then perhaps you can’t.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I already have but your obsession/ constant staking blinds you. And what is the ethnic minority in Southall?.

Tony Price ● 5052d

I already haveYou did?what is the ethnic minority in Southall?.See the ONS which tells you the ethnic minorities in England. Not the small number on non Asians in Southall, Mr Clever.Should we then be led to think by you that if people accused of crime come from Southall which houses an ethnic minority, then the people living there should be regarded with extra suspicion?Did you use invisible ink in your answer?

George Knox ● 5052d

FOR PITY'S SAKEAn innoncent 85 year old grandmother has died.Two local youths have been charged with her murder.Stop all this racist twaddle just for once or is that beyond you?There is a messaging facility on this board if you want to annoy and upset each other.IT'S NOT ENTERTAINING ANYMORE!!!!!

Nigel Brooks ● 5052d

"Stop all this racist twaddle just for once or is that beyond you?"Sorry, but maybe there was a racist element in the crime that lead to this thread in the first place. Was the victim the same race as the attackers? Take look at what's happened to Ealing in the last decade or two. I know others who have been attacked and robbed in Greenford, again by shall we say "ethnics". Look at the murder of Richard Mannington Bowes last year, by an "ethnic" from Hounslow, look at the riot footage, more of the same. The buldings that were deliberatly torched in Tottenham & Croydon were both local historical landmarks, destroyed by more of the same. Yes so it is deemed racist to point this out, but who really believes Ealing has become safer since the ethnic makeover of the last 20 years?As was pointed out earlier in this thread, the suspects came from Southall. When the only ethics in Southall were sikhs & hindus, you'd never hear of this sort of thing happening, they had morals and respect, todays "ethnics" don't seem to have much of this do they.

Leslie Bailey ● 5052d

Re IT'S NOT ENTERTAINING ANYMORE!!!!!       xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  exactly, from me it never was but here we have a person guided by hatred and an obsession re me to stalk and abuse. It  is a sickness and one which blinds the person into making a fool of himself in public. What I said was a repeat of what the B B C said so what on earth should possess  my stalker to make his first post on the thread and turn it into a war zone.  I suggest he contacts the B B C and asks them what he did to me and perhaps he will be good enough to give us their answer. I hope the locals in Greenford find comfort from the fact the murderers were not from within their midst. Some people have no regard for the thoughts and grief of others but blinded and driven by obsessive hatred. I am surprised the Moderators have not put a stop to it.

Tony Price ● 5052d

Re but maybe there was a racist element in the crime         xxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I don't think so Leslie. Whereas it is 9-1 chance the suspected murderers are not white, I don't believe the suspects purposely set out to mug/kill a white person, I hope no-one could stoop so low as to kill an dear old  lady because of her skin colour. I would imagine the reason was robbery, away from their stamping ground and with the hope they would not be recognised. The fact the Police have managed to identify and arrest them is brilliant work on their part and who deserve commendation.

Tony Price ● 5052d

The last thing we need is moderators making arbitrary judgements.Irritating though it may be, we are just going to have to sort out our differences between ourselves.

Tony Colliver ● 5052d

I fully agree with you.It is just that virtually every thread descends into an argument about either ethnicity or poster accusing each other of racism - often without any substance.It isn't wrong, surely, to point out that someone who commits a crime was black, brown, green, pink, a nice shade of taupe or whatever. What is wrong, IMVHO, is the constant harpng on about ethnicity as the cause of all of the problems we face and the counter arguments that dominate the threads detracting from the subject being discussed.

Nigel Brooks ● 5051d

The Whole of our Borough is divided into Police wards.When a shocking Crime where a Frail Old Lady is robbed, and the attack results in her Death, it is natural for people living near and around the area to wonder how near or Far they live from ones own home. If I  witnessed or knew of such Criminals knocking around I would not hesitate in discribing them as i see them.The criminal may be Male or Female,wearing a Turban or Bowler hatted, Wearing a Moustache or Beard,Dreadlock styled or Curly Hair or Blonde,Short or Tall,Old or Young, White ,Yellow,brown Khaki or Black. I does HELP many to be aware even if it discribes part of my ethnicity.It should not be a reason to accuse Tony Price of any wrong doing. It should not offend anybody.May be the Criminal himself.

Os A Whittle ● 5051d

Not only more police but another of many reasons to stop/ get rid of immigrants who break our laws. Reading of these crimes, the vast majority are committed by foreigners who arrive here from corrupt and violent cultures which they continue to perpetrate here. Doesn't help when the UKBA are totally useless and let them Into the country in the first place.Anyone arriving illegally should be turned around immediately and sent back from whence they came....they arrive in Heathrow and plonk themselves next door in Southall, Greenford etc and this is the result....a criminal plague....Mr. Cameron & Co GET IT SORTED .....There's no "joy' in this type of diversity .....IT DOESN'T WORK....YOU GET ME ??

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5051d

What a surprise !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5051d

Sick of the racist distraction any time there is a crime like this. Face facts...many are from corrupt and violent cultures and we don't want them here wherever they come from. We have enough of our own problems ....we don't need these people who are always particularly viscious in their activities....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5051d

Immigration laws are one thing and a few months ago I commented on how the law should be changed. Some of my views on the law would make even TP’s opinions on the subject pale into insignificance. But the approach to settled immigrants is quite another.I have always been suspicious about active promotion of multiculturism because in part it denies some of the history of this country which has been about integration.  For me integration is about a gradual coming together and an assimilation of peoples’ different ideas and culture – but it usually takes a number of generations (depending on their own history) for that to be achieved. The key ingredient that goes with integration is a respect for other people’s cultures/beliefs etc and where parts of those customs are attractive, an acquisition perhaps of some of those elements. If respect is offered, as it should be, then the new entrants should as a rule start to find the established way of life here more acceptable and attractive and which they in part then start to adopt.Multiculturism is hard to understand but for me it seems that it is supposed to be promoting celebration of another’s culture. What I cannot see in this is a policy which says the celebration then needs to move into the next phase, i.e. integration.  It seems to say - there is a culture. It is self contained and self sustaining, go and look at it and go and celebrate it. To me that sounds like an obstruction to integration and an encouragement for continuing separation. One of the problems with continuing separation is that the minorities are not the only groups which remain apart (both from each other and from the host majority). The host majorities are also hindered from taking in the new settlers, because the minorities are not advised that integration is expected of them. And if it is suggested that they should integrate, their educated leaders then say, well the government policy of the UK is promotion of multiculturism. If you accept the gist of this, it easy to see how the host can become angry with the new settlers. It is easy to see how the settlers will huddle together in fear of the anger and shrink from any thought of integration.In my view the government should excise the multiculturism word from any policy documents. All parties realise this and it is time for action. The minorities need protection from the host majority extremists which is why we must have strict laws against those who covertly incite hatred against minorities. If, in exchange for the introduction of integration as government policy the minorities want more protection from being marginalised then the law must be tightened even further.  It won’t be lost on most that if some minority selects another group for victimisation then the law will also deal with them with equal harshness. But where a person marginalises another and then claims he is being attacked because he has marginalised someone then he would proactively have to demonstrate a very clean record to avoid falling into the trap of dissimulation.People who trample underfoot the minorities have IMO a very low moral standard. They lose their right to respect and they set an example for disrespect from other groups. They should be challenged continually, because it is a disgrace to the decent minded majority of Englishmen that we have in our midst a few Englishmen with such base and abusive and disrespectful values.

George Knox ● 5051d

Bottom line......many of these crimes are committed by people who are not of indigenous British culture so it's not surprising that ethnicity is an issue.This has to be accepted and dealt with ..... What about the many instances of honor killings... what kind of creature murders their own family member....do we really want such savages and murderers in our society.??? Truth is many are from violent and corrupt countries and they continue to perpetrate that type of behaviour here....AND PC IDIOTS here defend them. Gggggggrrrrrrr...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5051d

RE: I don't think so Leslie. Whereas it is 9-1 chance the suspected murderers are not white, I don't believe the suspects purposely set out to mug/kill a white person, I hope no-one could stoop so low as to kill an dear old  lady because of her skin colour. ####################################### That was not the point I meant, if say for instance the attackers were of Somali origin, and the first person to come along was a woman of Somali origin, would they have attacked her, or waited for the second person instead? Lets face it, what happened here IS a sign of our times, and not it is the first time in Greenford by non-indigenous gangs. You don't hear of Sikhs, Hindus or Poles doing these types of attack very often, but some other non-indigenous types do carry out many of them.

Leslie Bailey ● 5051d

Totally agree..... These non indigs are particularly violent and these crimes are  becoming too frequent. They have low morals and corrupt backgrounds so all you softie pc idiots need to face the facts. This is not the first such incident in Greenford. If they come from another country kick them out .... Simples !!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5051d

RE  .It should not be a reason to accuse Tony Price of any wrong doing            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx        thanks Os. That someone chose to do so was because of a long simmering hatred by that person of me and to hell with the sensibilities of others. The person concerned  stalks me for that purpose,sad but it is a problem of and for that person to solve, it doesn't worry me. We don't know what really gives rise to such hatreds, it could be something that has happened to the person and which has affected them. There could be a fragility, so best left to own devices .

Tony Price ● 5051d